Tigers (Mize) vs Red Sox (Harrison): 9/26/25, 7:10pm

[d-money]

2 hours ago, iortiz said:

He better, there’s nothing on the table anymore. 

You cannot do that. Your team gets flat come the playoffs. Huge mistake. 

[d-money]

22 minutes ago, Oscars said:

Cora has done a great job with this roster 👏

Maybe but the AL this yesr is open. I don’t see a dominant team. I really like our starting pitching. If we can just hit. 

[moonslav59]

43 minutes ago, Oscars said:

Cora has done a great job with this roster 👏

One of the most repeated criticisms of Cora was pen choices, and yet our pen carried us for much of the season.

Many of us, including myself, were highly critical of Brez for signing "just" Chapman & Wilson. What Cora did with this pen was sheer genius. Sorry, but end of debate on this one.

Somehow, our pen has the 2nd best fWAR and ERA- in MLB. The rotation gets a lot of credit, but they rank 14th in fWAR and 8th in ERA-.

[FredLynn]

37 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

I will believe Cora has made a mistake the moment you declare a bad move before anything happens--and explain why it's a bad move.  The simple fact is that you can't.  You need that ever-reliable 20-20 hindsight.  

JH has never hesitated to fire a manager.  He fired his first one A year after buying the Sox.  He fired Francona after the 20`11 season even though the Sox won WS in 2004 and 2007 under Francona.  He fired his replacement Bobby V after one year.   And he fired Farrell after he won the WS in 2013 and won the AL East title in 2016 and 2017.  Cora was booted out of MLB for one year, 2020, and JH rehired him in 2021 and kept him despite no postseason in 2022, 2023, or 2024.  

This is the first Sox season I can remember in which success has relied so much on the pitching, and pitching is where the manager has his biggest impact as we saw yet again tonight.  

He did another thing you've overlooked.  Despite your caterwauling about what a terrible hitter Rafaela is and always will be, Cora  recently moved Rafaela from batting 8th to batting 6th because he was once again making good contact with the ball.  That one little move made that dramatic game-winning hit possible.  Don't get me wrong.  Rafaela, not Cora, made that amazing drive of the CF wall,.  But, had he batted 8th, he wouldn't have had the chance.  

 

“I will believe Cora has made a mistake the moment you declare a bad move before anything happens”

Ummm….i usually do just that. I state here that I think a pitcher should be removed or allowed to continue or if a runner on first should be trying to steal or if a player should be PH for-all before the play. Regardless of the result I state what I think the best move is. Sometimes the best move doesn’t work out but that doesn’t mean it’s not the best move. As for moving Rafaela to 6th it was pure luck that he was up in that situation. I don’t give Cora credit for knowing it would happen like that- but I do give Rafaela credit for his game winning hit.

I didn’t watch the game so I don’t know about how the pen was managed but we won so I assume he managed it correctly. That doesn’t make him a great manager. 
Last I checked our pitching was 4th or so in the AL in ERA. Past teams were even better- but our pitching is good, better than our offense.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

It's worth noting that Rafaela's K/W has improved from 10: to slightly worse than 4:1.  That's a huge improvement for a 2nd year player.

It’s hard to deny that he has improved. You can see it when you see the pitches he doesn’t swing at as often. I didn’t think he could improve but he has. Hopefully he can continue to get better offensively.

[moonslav59]

The fact that our pitching ranks so highly, when we went into the season with a much maligned pen, had our IP leader (Crawford) from 2024 miss the whole season, our '24 ace (Houck) implode and then miss the rest of the season, and then watch #6 Sandoval, #7 Dobbins, #7 Fitts and others miss all or most of the season, but still end up with a decent ranking has to partially Cora's doing. Hell, Slaten missed a bunch of time, and there was talk Hendriks might win the closing job, if age caught up to Chapman.

Brez traded away Priester and Newcomb, and still Cora managed to squeeze every last ounce of success out of the whole staff.

Give the guy the props he deserves.

Hate him for the whole trashcan fiasco. I guess none of us have ever done anything bad in our lives. Hate him for a few moves that didn't work out, too well. Hate him for handling the Devers situation like an enabler, but give the guy some serious credit for pulling this off.

[illinoisredsox]

3 hours ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Funny that they didn't PR for Romy.

Not really; Romy's got decent speed but he is not a good base stealer (he gets terrible jumps).

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

It’s hard to deny that he has improved. You can see it when you see the pitches he doesn’t swing at as often. I didn’t think he could improve but he has. Hopefully he can continue to get better offensively.

I'm glad to hear you say this, Fred.

He had shown some pretty serious improvement from 2023-2024, but some of the numbers he had to improve on were historically awful. It's understandable to have serious doubts, I had them, too. 

It was the totality and finality of your criticism that seemed over the top and needless. The guy cut way down on his K's from day one of the season. His BB% was and still is horrific, but it no longer is legendary. He nearly doubled the 2024 rate (2.6 to 4.7.)

He's still streaky as all hell. Swings at too many balls that are not even close, but he seems to do just well enough to force pitchers to throw some strikes. I was impressed by all his hits to RF, this year, especially over the last week of the year. He also got some big hits, and like last year, more than his fair share of RBIs for so few hits. While 138 RBIs in 2 seasons is not great, for a .245 batter with not a ton of power, it's decent.

He's robbed so many hits, this year, including multiple homers, the guy has been a clear plus. He's got about a 3.5 FWAR, this year and about a 7.5 bWAR in 2024-2025 combined. Think what you want about WAR and what is it good for, but they guy is a plus. I hope he improves, too. Maybe he won't, but if he keeps repeating 2025, I'm fine with it.

[moonslav59]

He hold a pretty firm grip on the 4 slot in the AL. Once again, the AL East has risen to dominance, so our record is legit.

We are tied with the Padres for the 8th best record in MLB. That's very close to top 25%.

If you value run differential:

173 MIL

158 NYY

138 CHC

135 LAD

134 PHI

110 BOS

That's top 20%. (Cue big blowout wins don't count.)

Finally, we got some results for a team on the rise for 2-3 years.

Keep it going! One game at a time!

 

[Hitch]

4 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Occasionally my great crystal balls let me down...not often mind you. But I'll take it!

I've never seen anyone get as much wrong as you do. You've made an artform.of it.

I firmly believe it is more important to you to be seen to be right than it is the Sox be successful. 

Unlucky buttercup. 

[Hitch]

2 hours ago, Oscars said:

Cora has done a great job with this roster 👏

Indeed. He comes in for a lot of criticism on times but he's done a very good job this year 

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I too was shut out from watching.  Knowing only the final score and how they scored in the end I read through the thread to get a feel for how the game went.  It was entertaining to say the least.  

It was hardly just Fred Lynn who was making such comments.  Has Cora been fired yet?  LOL.  I swear some of you don't deserve that win and this season.  

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

if he keeps repeating 2025, I'm fine with it.

THERE it is, Moon. You finally admit Ceddanne's clutch walk-off hits CAN be repeatable!

Hah, just busting with Rafaela joy this morning. As polarizing as he's been on this forum all season, a quick look at updated bWAR shows our soon-to-be Gold Glover is arguably the Red Sox best position player of 2025:

Duran 4.6, Rafaela 4.5, Story 3.8... 

Btw: as far as resting players today, the one regular who could really use a break is Story, since he has looked more gassed at shortstop this month than any other. Sogard at SS this afternoon, please...

Finally, the bullpen -- and not just Chapman -- has been the MVP down the stretch. For those who didn't get Apple, I agree with what the announcers said: "Garrett Whitlock is the most unhittable reliever in baseball right now."

 

[Bellhorn04]

5 hours ago, Hitch said:

Indeed. He comes in for a lot of criticism on times but he's done a very good job this year 

I think Cora is a great manager, personally, and that includes his in-game moves.  Needless to say baseball managers are born to be ragged on by the armchair gang no matter what they do.  Just ask Francona.

[Bellhorn04]

8 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

Does that mean he enjoys suffering?  He won't be the only RS fan that does.

Joe Freaking Brady, how the heck are you?  Glad to see you finally made it here.

[Maxbialystock]

8 hours ago, d-money said:

You cannot do that. Your team gets flat come the playoffs. Huge mistake. 

Not as huge as the Rockies were forced to wait for the 2007 WS.  It's a tad under 96 hours from last night's win to Tuesday's start.  

The three Sox with the most games are Story, Duran, and Rafaela.  Of those I think Story could use an extra day or two.  As for the rest, I think just Bregman could use a break.  Plus skip Giolito on Sunday.  

Your point is not to lose the edge the Sox have shown against the Jays and now the Tiger--and it's a good one except that I think Story's recent bunch of errors are due to fatigue.  

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Whitlock has been great this season but it's a reach to say he is the most unhittable reliever in baseball right now.  Cecdanne is so infuriating so I get the frustration.  Why can't he learn the strike zone?  But I'm happy for him, he certainly has delivered big at the end of a lot of games.  Happy for Yoshida as well. With the language barrier and difference in culture, while playing like crap for 2 years he couldn't have been having a lot of fun in the clubhouse.  

[illinoisredsox]

22 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Not as huge as the Rockies were forced to wait for the 2007 WS.  It's a tad under 96 hours from last night's win to Tuesday's start.  

The three Sox with the most games are Story, Duran, and Rafaela.  Of those I think Story could use an extra day or two.  As for the rest, I think just Bregman could use a break.  Plus skip Giolito on Sunday.  

Your point is not to lose the edge the Sox have shown against the Jays and now the Tiger--and it's a good one except that I think Story's recent bunch of errors are due to fatigue.  

Wong should play the next two games as well.  Narvaez has looked tired lately and a couple days off aren’t going to hurt him.

Not a lot of resting you can do with a 5 man bench.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

10 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Not as huge as the Rockies were forced to wait for the 2007 WS.  It's a tad under 96 hours from last night's win to Tuesday's start.  

The three Sox with the most games are Story, Duran, and Rafaela.  Of those I think Story could use an extra day or two.  As for the rest, I think just Bregman could use a break.  Plus skip Giolito on Sunday.  

Your point is not to lose the edge the Sox have shown against the Jays and now the Tiger--and it's a good one except that I think Story's recent bunch of errors are due to fatigue.  

Cora probably didn't think he could afford to play one game without Story's bat in the line-up. 

Sept. BA: Yoshida .359, Romy .342, Story .315 -- tied with Narvaez with a team-leading 3 whole homers.

Amazing that Boston's batting order -- without Anthony, Abreu, and a replacement for Big Raffy -- still made the playoffs. Even if the Sox concede the final two games, they'll finish September at .500, which means they didn't have a losing record in any full month except May, not coincidentally also Story's worst month.

Story in May batted .158; the rest of the months combined he hit a solid .285.

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

39 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Whitlock has been great this season but it's a reach to say he is the most unhittable reliever in baseball right now.  Cecdanne is so infuriating so I get the frustration.  Why can't he learn the strike zone?  But I'm happy for him, he certainly has delivered big at the end of a lot of games.  Happy for Yoshida as well. With the language barrier and difference in culture, while playing like crap for 2 years he couldn't have been having a lot of fun in the clubhouse.  

His previous two years with the Sox he has a.285 BA. How does that relate to crap?

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

11 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

His previous two years with the Sox he has a.285 BA. How does that relate to crap?

For the same reason most every Sox fan wanted to dump him and his contract in a heartbeat if the team could find a way. This signing has not worked out, period.   He has no position, has little power which is brutal for a DH and puts the Sox at a big disadvantage at the position and goes stone cold as he rolls over grounders to 2nd and that can last months.  

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Whitlock has been great this season but it's a reach to say he is the most unhittable reliever in baseball right now.  Cecdanne is so infuriating so I get the frustration.  Why can't he learn the strike zone?  But I'm happy for him, he certainly has delivered big at the end of a lot of games.  Happy for Yoshida as well. With the language barrier and difference in culture, while playing like crap for 2 years he couldn't have been having a lot of fun in the clubhouse.  

Rafaela is never going to have acceptable plate discipline. At least he’s gone from horrific to just bad. He is letting more bad pitches go by and making better contact as evidenced by his slowly improving OPS.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

THERE it is, Moon. You finally admit Ceddanne's clutch walk-off hits CAN be repeatable!

 

Players in MLB long enough will get clutch hits often. It is repeated. 

It's just not a skillset.

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Players in MLB long enough will get clutch hits often. It is repeated. 

Disagree.

Mike Trout has never had a big clutch hit-not one that anyone knows about, at least.  Because he has generally been on crap teams.

You can probably think of a number of other great players that have never had a big clutch hit that you know of.

Obviously opportunities has a lot to do with that...

 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Whitlock has been great this season but it's a reach to say he is the most unhittable reliever in baseball right now.  

"Right now" could mean recently:

Last 28 days: OPS Against

.468 Whitlock (.211 BA Against)

.494 Chapman (.194 BA)

.506 Weissert (.182 BA) How about some props to Greg?

 

Last 14 Days:

.170 Slaten (.059) Props to Justin, too!

.458 Whitlock (.208)

.458 Weissert (.176)

.554 Chapman (.229)

 

Last 7 Days

.222 Whitlock (.111)

.250 Weissert (.125)

.382 Chapman (.100)

.393 Slaten (.143)

.393 Murphy (.143)

These 5 guys have allowed 5 hits in 41 ABs- a .122 BA (3BB and 13Ks)

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

3 hours ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I too was shut out from watching.  Knowing only the final score and how they scored in the end I read through the thread to get a feel for how the game went.  It was entertaining to say the least.  

It was hardly just Fred Lynn who was making such comments.  Has Cora been fired yet?  LOL.  I swear some of you don't deserve that win and this season.  

The perfect fan has spoken.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Disagree.

Mike Trout has never had a big clutch hit-not one that anyone knows about

WHAT? Trout homered to beat the Astros last night!

That was clutch for Boston and all of Red Sox Nation after the fact, but let's be honest, something we were all hoping for before our game... and all through the Casey Mize innings... and probably a more likely path to the playoffs in our heads than six relievers shutting down Detroit over the last six innings.

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Disagree.

Mike Trout has never had a big clutch hit-not one that anyone knows about, at least.  Because he has generally been on crap teams.

You can probably think of a number of other great players that have never had a big clutch hit that you know of.

Obviously opportunities has a lot to do with that...

 

Trout has had 1072 PAs Late & Close (.850 OPS) and 1223 in High Leverage situations (.951 OPS).

Okay, he has 15 playoff PAs (.600.) and maybe had a few meaningful ABs late in some seasons where they were still in it. My guess is, he had 2 or more hits when it counted. He repeated it. It's just not his or anyone's skill.

[dannycater]

Congratulations to the die-hard fans in here and the Sox making it into the postseason. Breslow got away with the Devers dump trade and not really adding at the trade deadline. Give a lot of credit to Story's comeback season, Bregman stabalizing force, Duran having great 2nd half, and the pitching with Crochet being the Ace..Go Sox!!! Breslow/Cora good for both. 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Two defensive plays that shouldn't be forgotten. Duran's game saving catch in the 1st and Lowe's double saving grab late in the game.