Orioles (Sugano) vs Red Sox (Buehler): 8/19/25, 7:10pm

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

The records I posted prove that this franchise has become LOSERS, basically year after year. Are you happy with the track record I posted? Assuming (reasonably) that we will again crash and burn what changes should be made to improve the team going forward (ie, wait until next year......AGAIN)? You know the old saying, "the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results". 

Right?

But if any of us were sane we wouldn't be spending all this time following a baseball team.

Sports is an irrational world.  You've got 30 teams and only one champion.  You fail a vast percentage of the time.  

[notin]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Tear it all down for what? Just to punt the next 3 years again? 

It does strike me funny that folks who cannot handle losing 3 straight games think the solution is to lose for 3 straight years…

[FredLynn]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

The Sox took 2 out of 3 from the Marlins.  Why is that so bad?

They got swept by the Orioles, but it was a 2 game series.  Not the same as getting swept in 3 games.

This upcoming series? With Buehler going yesterday (aka not pitching) the Sox have given themselves their best chance, especially if May can keep it going…

So we went 2-3 at home against last place teams. Great. Thats a sure sign of success! The Yankees are going to be very unhappy that we have owned them this year. We MIGHT win a game there, but not more. The worst part is that the team simply isn't playing good ball. They are crashing, like they do almost every year.

[drewski6]

14 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Just to recap, to keep it real, here is how the FLOPS have finished recently: 

2019: 84 wins; 2020: last place: 2021: 92 wins (whoopee!): 2022: last place (78 wins); 2023:last place (78 wins); and 2024: 81 wins.

Not exactly a record of remarkable success, is it. Time for a change. Tear it all down.

id settle for tear 30% of it down!

HOw about this, on the 40 man, pick 28 guys.  Get rid of everyone else, and i dont care if you replace them with janitors.  Just enough of being comfortable with a flawed roster.

[FredLynn]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

But if any of us were sane we wouldn't be spending all this time following a baseball team.

Sports is an irrational world.  You've got 30 teams and only one champion.  You fail a vast percentage of the time.  

A well managed franchise, like the Astros, should be competitive nearly every year. Look at their record over the last 7 years or so. Then give me the reasons why the Sox cannot be just as well run.

[FredLynn]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

id settle for tear 30% of it down!

HOw about this, on the 40 man, pick 28 guys.  Get rid of everyone else, and i dont care if you replace them with janitors.  Just enough of being comfortable with a flawed roster.

Its gotta start at the top. If the owner is a cheapskate and the GM is incompetent it won't matter WHO you put on your roster. 

[drewski6]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

There's less time to be methodical and stick to a process during a blitz like the trade deadline. I think you need experience to really run the end of July. Offseason, drafting, building the farm, etc. should be easier. 

well here is the answer to your question of what this team has to do with previous.

Complacency, inaction, settling, trying to win every trade, scared of giving something of value up, gun-shy, fine with letting holes remain holes, no urgency, theres always next year, lies, spin

[moonslav59]

36 minutes ago, notin said:

Boy I hope this season isnt a flop like that one was…

On paper, this team looks better than 201, andthe foundation going forward is light years better.

[moonslav59]

Just now, drewski6 said:

well here is the answer to your question of what this team has to do with previous.

Complacency, inaction, settling, trying to win every trade, scared of giving something of value up, gun-shy, fine with letting holes remain holes, no urgency, theres always next year, lies, spin

We filled a lot of holes, last winter. 

None of us liked the M & M hole-fixers at the deadline, but they both have done okay, so far.

We finally tried to fix the 1B hole... maybe too late.

[drewski6]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

What about it?  He’s a role player that only makes it to Boston when someone gets hurt.   Every team has players like him, and some are less talented…

1/3 of our lineup is players like him.

[FredLynn]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

On paper, this team looks better than 201, andthe foundation going forward is light years better.

You're right: GOING FORWARD the foundation seems good. Anthony, Mayer, Campbell (I think he will do fine). and others are likely to provide good bases on which to build. The problem is, its ALWAYS "wait till next year" with this team. We had ONE good team since 2018. That speaks to the incompetence of management.

[drewski6]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

We filled a lot of holes, last winter. 

None of us liked the M & M hole-fixers at the deadline, but they both have done okay, so far.

We finally tried to fix the 1B hole... maybe too late.

Bregman fell into our laps.  WE were cruising for more of the same minus Crochet which was so obvious.

I dont think this team has really stuck their neck out in 5 years.

"None of us liked the M & M hole-fixers at the deadline" - this is 90% of my point.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

You're right: GOING FORWARD the foundation seems good. Anthony, Mayer, Campbell (I think he will do fine). and others are likely to provide good bases on which to build. The problem is, its ALWAYS "wait till next year" with this team. We had ONE good team since 2018. That speaks to the incompetence of management.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but if you mean the foundation looks good, then saying tear it all down from top to bottom seems misguided.

[moonslav59]

Just now, drewski6 said:

Bregman fell into our laps.  WE were cruising for more of the same minus Crochet which was so obvious.

I dont think this team has really stuck their neck out in 5 years.

"None of us liked the M & M hole-fixers at the deadline" - this is 90% of my point.

$40M was a major choice made- lap-falling or not. It represented a major shift in spending and commitment to go beyond complacency. So did the first major prospect trade since the Sale deal.

[Maxbialystock]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The life of an inexperienced CBO. 😩

Not sure I agree.   Like everyone else, I would love to have seen Breslow acquire one or more very good arms.  OTOH, July is the worst time to try to do that because this season in the AL the 3 Division leaders and 5 mostly likely wild card teams all had good reasons to improve.  The NL also had 8 teams looking for a plus-up.  

I completely agree that Breslow,is in fact inexperienced.  But to me that inexperience demands caution in July and aggressiveness in December.  Breslow has also made mistakes in December, but overall I like the direction of these Sox.  When was the last time any Sox CBO brought in four stalwarts like Breslow, Crochet, Chapman, and Narvaez in a single season?  

 

[FredLynn]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but if you mean the foundation looks good, then saying tear it all down from top to bottom seems misguided.

I said I would keep maybe 6-8 players who are now on the ML team. The rest I would throw in the dumpster. Those 6-8 players combined with the talent we have in the minor leagues are the foundation. There's nothing inconsistent with what I wrote. The truth is that unless Henry sells the team or changes his cheapskate attitude, unless Breslow is fired along with Cora, it won't matter WHAT the foundation is. They have demonstrated literally year after year that they are not up to the job.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Just found the reason for last night's problem on Red Sox.com.

Batting Average with Bases Loaded 2025:

1.000 Casas, .667 Campbell, .500 Devers, .500 Refsnyder -- all gone (damaged, demoted, deported, debilitated)

.

[mvp 78]

27 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

The records I posted prove that this franchise has become LOSERS, basically year after year. Are you happy with the track record I posted? Assuming (reasonably) that we will again crash and burn what changes should be made to improve the team going forward (ie, wait until next year......AGAIN)? You know the old saying, "the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results". 

Right?

Why would I assume they are going to lose out when it's a different roster and they are currently holding a playoff spot? 

[moonslav59]

Nobody is happy about "wait until next year." Some don't think we are at that point, just yet, but I can understand why some feel like that, after last night, and the last 10 games.

We are still in the driver's seat, and other teams are struggling, too. Hell, the Astros have been shut out 4 of the last 5 games, and SEA could win the west, making the 'Stros out top WC contender.

The Yanks have gotten hot, but they were cold for about a quarter of the season.

CLE sold at the deadline, but we are the ones seen as being "complacent" and striving for mediocrity.

Texas is Toast (pun intended.)

KC could compete, but what did they do to improve? They didn't even get any M & Ms.

TBR is behind TEX.

SEA did a lot at the deadline and are 10-6 since, but as I pointed out, they could not be a WC contender, because they win the ALW.

 

 

 

[mvp 78]

24 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

id settle for tear 30% of it down!

HOw about this, on the 40 man, pick 28 guys.  Get rid of everyone else, and i dont care if you replace them with janitors.  Just enough of being comfortable with a flawed roster.

I'm can almost guarantee that our Opening Day 40 man will have 12 new guys on it. Problem solved.

[Maxbialystock]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

$40M was a major choice made- lap-falling or not. It represented a major shift in spending and commitment to go beyond complacency. So did the first major prospect trade since the Sale deal.

As I just said, I think Breslow is inexperienced, so for him it makes sense to be cautious in July and aggressive in December.  When was the last time any Sox CBO brought in four stalwarts like Bregman, Crochet, Chapman, and Narvaez in a single season?   The nut jobs prefer to ignore those four and focus on Buehler (as I myself did when he gave up Sale for nothing and signed Giolito, who was himself nothing his first season).

All the carping critics have ignored that in his first three starts, May has had 2 quality starts and an ERA of 2.87.  Absolutely no one has acknowledged that he might in fact be a smart acquisition.   

 

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Not sure I agree.   Like everyone else, I would love to have seen Breslow acquire one or more very good arms.  OTOH, July is the worst time to try to do that because this season in the AL the 3 Division leaders and 5 mostly likely wild card teams all had good reasons to improve.  The NL also had 8 teams looking for a plus-up.  

I completely agree that Breslow,is in fact inexperienced.  But to me that inexperience demands caution in July and aggressiveness in December.  Breslow has also made mistakes in December, but overall I like the direction of these Sox.  When was the last time any Sox CBO brought in four stalwarts like Breslow, Crochet, Chapman, and Narvaez in a single season?  

 

Trying to get Ryan in July makes no sense. Can he get him this offseason? Sure. 

Could Breslow (or a more experienced version) have acquired a 1b or 2b to help with the positional rotation? Definitely. Another RP? Yes.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

45 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He'd rather the Sox tank and be proven right to be miserable than have to see the Sox succeed and see other posters be happy and potentially admit he was wrong. 

That's a BINGO!

[FredLynn]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Why would I assume they are going to lose out when it's a different roster and they are currently holding a playoff spot? 

Because too many players are simply not very good, historically, and are slumping as they return to nearer their career averages. You think Gonzales, Toro, Narvaez, Wong, Rafaela etc will suddenly turn it around and outperform their career averages? You saw what happened last night: bases loaded, nobody out, no runs. How many times did we fail to score with RISP? The problem IMO will be scoring runs going forward. Its why we will likely NOT make the playoffs this year.

[drewski6]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

$40M was a major choice made- lap-falling or not. It represented a major shift in spending and commitment to go beyond complacency. So did the first major prospect trade since the Sale deal.

Okay but it was a late signing that saved our bacon.  We wouldnt have gotten the chance had he not fallen out with astros and tigers.  We let that play out first because we are never aggressive.  

[notin]

33 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

A well managed franchise, like the Astros, should be competitive nearly every year. Look at their record over the last 7 years or so. Then give me the reasons why the Sox cannot be just as well run.

So the Astros at 69-56 are “well-managed” but the Sox at 68-58 are “flops”?  Got it.

The “well-managed” Astros did get swept at home in 4 games by the powerhouse Sacra-Vegas Athletics and lost 2 of 3 at home to the Orioles…

 

[FredLynn]

48 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He'd rather the Sox tank and be proven right to be miserable than have to see the Sox succeed and see other posters be happy and potentially admit he was wrong. 

Wrong again! I would rather see the Sox not resort to becoming the FLOPS and succeed, and make a deep playoff run. I would be happy to admit that I was wrong. Will you admit that YOU were wrong as easily if they FLOP again?

[drewski6]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Nobody is happy about "wait until next year." Some don't think we are at that point, just yet, but I can understand why some feel like that, after last night, and the last 10 games.

We are still in the driver's seat, and other teams are struggling, too. Hell, the Astros have been shut out 4 of the last 5 games, and SEA could win the west, making the 'Stros out top WC contender.

The Yanks have gotten hot, but they were cold for about a quarter of the season.

CLE sold at the deadline, but we are the ones seen as being "complacent" and striving for mediocrity.

Texas is Toast (pun intended.)

KC could compete, but what did they do to improve? They didn't even get any M & Ms.

TBR is behind TEX.

SEA did a lot at the deadline and are 10-6 since, but as I pointed out, they could not be a WC contender, because they win the ALW.

 

 

 

Right, I am the one who is using terms like complacency and mediocrity.  I am not saying be Cle

I hate small market teams, small market mindset. I dont hate the yankees.  I say if we cant win, id rather it be yankees or dodgers cuz the other owner gms are just complacent fine with mediocrity.

and you wanna talk about wait till next year.  dodgers and nyy are adding 5 all-stars a pop this offseason.  And Ill laugh.

[FredLynn]

Just now, notin said:

So the Astros at 69-56 are “well-managed” but the Sox at 68-58 are “flops”?  Got it.

The “well-managed” Astros did get swept in 4 games by the powerhouse Sacra-Vegas Athletics and lost 2 of 3 at home to the Orioles…

 

I am talking about their TRACK record: 

2025: first place

2024: first place

2023: first place

2022: first place

2021: first place

How does that contrast to the FLOPS record over that time period? 

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I said I would keep maybe 6-8 players who are now on the ML team. The rest I would throw in the dumpster. Those 6-8 players combined with the talent we have in the minor leagues are the foundation. There's nothing inconsistent with what I wrote. The truth is that unless Henry sells the team or changes his cheapskate attitude, unless Breslow is fired along with Cora, it won't matter WHAT the foundation is. They have demonstrated literally year after year that they are not up to the job.

So, it was sarcasm. Fine.

"Maybe" 6-8 players is not a solid foundation. I'm fine with you believing this, but I disagree.

Crochet, Bello, Whitlock, Slaten are solid foundation pieces along with very promising  and could be called solid pitchers like Dobbins, Crawford, Sandoval and maybe Giolito. (I wont say Tolle and other prospects, just yet.)

Anthony, Bregman, Duran, Abreu and Narvaez are solid to me. Mayer, Campbell and maybe Jh Garica will be. Story & Casas look solid, when healthy and I know we disagree on Rafaela, but I see him as a plus player- not "mediocre." (Not "solid foundational", either.)

I see a solid core of 10-12 players with good chances of another 6- 8 being there, next year.

Tearing down would be "wait until next year" being 2031. Why would you advocate for that?

Are you saying we need to sign 18 free agents or trade for them and then win in 2026? 

Now, that's funny!