Article: Who’s the Red Sox Third Baseman? It's Messy

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Why? He got worse as he aged. What does 5 have to do with a possible 6, 7 ot 8?

He helped them win with his bat. Hee was not a negative player. He just sucked on D.

It's impossible to say if they would have won any more than 5.  If you really want to go down that rabbit hole you'd have to show which years it would have made a difference.  It's freakin' impossible, man.  

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It's impossible to say if they would have won any more than 5.  If you really want to go down that rabbit hole you'd have to show which years it would have made a difference.  It's freakin' impossible, man.  

I have agreed it's impossible to ever know.

We both agree, the Yanks would have been better without Jeter at SS, but still in the line-up.

That would have increased their odds at winning more games in a season and the playoffs. Whether they win another ring or not, is pure speculation. 

You say "they won 5," like that shows he did not hurt the team. I disagree. A team can still be good enough to win with weak links of D, O and pitching. Even winning teams could win more. COULD.

[jdc69]

6 hours ago, notin said:

And then the Yankees collapsed so badly in the playoffs, that over 20 years later, we can still watch a new docuseries on it.  
 

Maybe the 2025 Red Sox will be the first team ever to blow a 4-0 lead in the postseason 

'04 should be called "the series" in terms of collapse. '24 should be called "the inning."

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

'04 should be called "the series" in terms of collapse. '24 should be called "the inning."

And that inning (notes Captain Obvious) was all about the defensive lapses. 

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

'04 should be called "the series" in terms of collapse. '24 should be called "the inning."

"The dropsies." 

[Bellhorn04]

42 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I have agreed it's impossible to ever know.

We both agree, the Yanks would have been better without Jeter at SS, but still in the line-up.

That would have increased their odds at winning more games in a season and the playoffs. Whether they win another ring or not, is pure speculation. 

You say "they won 5," like that shows he did not hurt the team. I disagree. A team can still be good enough to win with weak links of D, O and pitching. Even winning teams could win more. COULD.

I do get what you're saying.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And that inning (notes Captain Obvious) was all about the defensive lapses. 

Better defense leads to championships then? Is that the theory?

[Bellhorn04]

28 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Better defense leads to championships then? Is that the theory?

Well played. 

The thing about Jeter was, he kind of magically concealed his deficiencies at SS.  You don't really remember any nasty misplays he made at critical moments.    

[moonslav59]

Jeter is gone, Aaron Boone extended, so the ring-losing will continue.

[Bellhorn04]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Jeter is gone, Aaron Boone extended, so the ring-losing will continue.

And Cashman is CBO for life. 😁

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And Cashman is CBO for life. 😁

Jacksonian furiously typing a rebuttal post: Short Die the King!

[Old Red]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I have agreed it's impossible to ever know.

We both agree, the Yanks would have been better without Jeter at SS, but still in the line-up.

That would have increased their odds at winning more games in a season and the playoffs. Whether they win another ring or not, is pure speculation. 

You say "they won 5," like that shows he did not hurt the team. I disagree. A team can still be good enough to win with weak links of D, O and pitching. Even winning teams could win more. COULD.

It’s impossible to know is right. Arod may have been a better SS, but if Jeter had moved to 3B he might not have been as good of a 3B as ARod was, so you would have lost something there, so it’s not as cut, and dry as just inserting ARod at SS. The Red Sox could have had Mike Lowell, or Beltre playing 3B for them the last 3 years, and they still wouldn’t have made the postseason. Nothing is as cut, and dry, or as easy as some suggest on here.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It’s impossible to know is right. Arod may have been a better SS, but if Jeter had moved to 3B he might not have been as good of a 3B as ARod was, so you would have lost something there, so it’s not as cut, and dry as just inserting ARod at SS. The Red Sox could have had Mike Lowell, or Beltre playing 3B for them the last 3 years, and they still wouldn’t have made the postseason. Nothing is as cut, and dry, or as easy as some suggest on here.

Agreed, like the guys insisting that Rafaela WILL play CF FT and not RF and that Yoshida will hardly lay in the OF in 2025.

We don't know jack.

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed, like the guys insisting that Rafaela WILL play CF FT and not RF and that Yoshida will hardly lay in the OF in 2025.

We don't know jack.

You keep suggesting all these moving parts where as I suggest the least moving parts the better. To me FT players should have FT positions, and platoons should come from backups who will also do the fill ins. Injuries has caused revolving doors, and more platoons the last few years, and that should be the only reason now IMO. 

[moonslav59]

57 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You keep suggesting all these moving parts where as I suggest the least moving parts the better. To me FT players should have FT positions, and platoons should come from backups who will also do the fill ins. Injuries has caused revolving doors, and more platoons the last few years, and that should be the only reason now IMO. 

It's not any more moving parts than 2024, in fact it's less.

It's only about who play RF vs LHPs.

Who do you think Cora plays RF v L, and is it the same as you want it to be?

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It's not any more moving parts than 2024, in fact it's less.

It's only about who play RF vs LHPs.

Who do you think Cora plays RF v L, and is it the same as you want it to be?

Ref Man if Abreu is platooned. If Raffy is moved to DH that’s one less place for Ref Man to go, or anyone else to go for that matter.

[notin]

10 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

They have to make the postseason first.......

Probably a little more likely...

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

Probably a little more likely...

Time will tell.......

[notin]

2 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Time will tell.......

Not really.  The chacnes they blow a 4-0 postseason lead is pretty unlikely with the current playoff structure.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

Not really.  The chacnes they blow a 4-0 postseason lead is pretty unlikely with the current playoff structure.

Sox could easily blow a 4-0 lead if Garcia, Sims and Joely are in relief. But they could still win, 5-4, in extras because in the playoffs, there is no ghost...

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Ref Man if Abreu is platooned. If Raffy is moved to DH that’s one less place for Ref Man to go, or anyone else to go for that matter.

Ref in Fenway's RF and others.  Thanks for answering.

Last year, Ref started 15 games in RF on the road and 6 at Fenway, including 4 in a short stretch in early June.

Of course, we had O'Neall and were using Rafaela at SS, a lot, but it will be interesting to see if Cora changes his tendencies, here on this one.

It's hard to compare 2025 to 2024. We need to replace O'Neals games, but should have more games in the OF from Rafaela.

Here was all the shuffling that happened in 2024 by GS in OF:

LF: Duran 71, O'Neal 56, Ref 31, Abreu 4

CF: Duran 89, Rafaela 72, Romy 1

RF: Abreu 106, O'Neall 34, Ref 20, Dalbec 2.

Ref & O'Neall both started more games in LF than RF, and Duran led all players in LF & CF starts. Rafaela's 71 GS at SS will not happen in 2025, so that could take a big chunk out of O'Neal's 90 OG GS.

 

[Old Red]

59 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Ref in Fenway's RF and others.  Thanks for answering.

Last year, Ref started 15 games in RF on the road and 6 at Fenway, including 4 in a short stretch in early June.

Of course, we had O'Neall and were using Rafaela at SS, a lot, but it will be interesting to see if Cora changes his tendencies, here on this one.

It's hard to compare 2025 to 2024. We need to replace O'Neals games, but should have more games in the OF from Rafaela.

Here was all the shuffling that happened in 2024 by GS in OF:

LF: Duran 71, O'Neal 56, Ref 31, Abreu 4

CF: Duran 89, Rafaela 72, Romy 1

RF: Abreu 106, O'Neall 34, Ref 20, Dalbec 2.

Ref & O'Neall both started more games in LF than RF, and Duran led all players in LF & CF starts. Rafaela's 71 GS at SS will not happen in 2025, so that could take a big chunk out of O'Neal's 90 OG GS.

 

RAF Man FT in the OF cuts down on options, and needs, which also means needs to move Duran. Like I mentioned before that moving Raffy to FT DH limits options, and needs there especially for Ref Man.

[moonslav59]

34 minutes ago, Old Red said:

RAF Man FT in the OF cuts down on options, and needs, which also means needs to move Duran. Like I mentioned before that moving Raffy to FT DH limits options, and needs there especially for Ref Man.

Devers at DH squeezes the hell out of Yoshida, but not many other OF'ers played DH, last year.

18 O'Neall and 13 Refsnyder.

With O'Neal gone from DH and OF, there are more OF games that Rafaela had at SS, in 2024. In theory, there are more freed up OF games with O'Neal gone than the DH squeeze, UNLESS, we try to play Yoshida a lot.

Then, Rafaela gets squeezed, bigtime.

With Devers at FT DH and Yoshida not playing much, Ref and Rafaela can both play all they can (Raff) and should (Ref v L, only.) It's kinda moved to Yoshida putting the squeeze on, at least until Anthony arrives.

No Yoshida- your way....

LF: Duran 150 gms/ Ref 10 gms (Fenway)

CF: Rafaela 152 gms/ Duran 10 gms

RF: Abreu 110 gsm and Ref 52 gms

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Devers at DH squeezes the hell out of Yoshida, but not many other OF'ers played DH, last year.

18 O'Neall and 13 Refsnyder.

With O'Neal gone from DH and OF, there are more OF games that Rafaela had at SS, in 2024. In theory, there are more freed up OF games with O'Neal gone than the DH squeeze, UNLESS, we try to play Yoshida a lot.

Then, Rafaela gets squeezed, bigtime.

With Devers at FT DH and Yoshida not playing much, Ref and Rafaela can both play all they can (Raff) and should (Ref v L, only.) It's kinda moved to Yoshida putting the squeeze on, at least until Anthony arrives.

No Yoshida- your way....

LF: Duran 150 gms/ Ref 10 gms (Fenway)

CF: Rafaela 152 gms/ Duran 10 gms

RF: Abreu 110 gsm and Ref 52 gms

That’s where that roster construction things comes in. If Raffy is FT DH Masa is kind of the odd man out. I just don’t see Cora playing Masa in the OF at the expense of RAF Man. Then again I could be 100% wrong.

[notin]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Sox could easily blow a 4-0 lead if Garcia, Sims and Joely are in relief. But they could still win, 5-4, in extras because in the playoffs, there is no ghost...

I meant games not runs.  In reference to topping the 2004 comeback and it’s Netflix docuseries…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

That’s where that roster construction things comes in. If Raffy is FT DH Masa is kind of the odd man out. I just don’t see Cora playing Masa in the OF at the expense of RAF Man. Then again I could be 100% wrong.

I have no idea if he values Yoshida's way better bat vs RHPs than Rafaela's excellent D.

The thing that helps the Yoshi case, to me, is that the drop off in CF on D from Rafaela to Duran is not much. The loss comes in LF from Duran to Yoshida, but in Fenway, that loss in minimized to some extent. Enough to tip the balance?

IMO, Cora likes to play everybody, so we may see more of Yoshida in Fenway's LF and RF in some away fields with short RFs. Just a hunch.

[Deja Doh]

Devers and Bregman are very similar players on offense.  Bregman is the better team player as he gets on base (and his career WAR is almost double Devers).  Defensively Bregman is better than Devers as at times Devers seems to have grown roots.  Bregman is by far the better defensive player.  The only worse contract for a 3rd baseman is Anthony Rendon's (but the Angels only have to eat two more years in that contract, versus 8 more with Rafi's).

[notin]

8 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Better defense leads to championships then? Is that the theory?

Well, worse defense leads you away from them, yes or no?

[Old Red]

7 hours ago, Deja Doh said:

Devers and Bregman are very similar players on offense.  Bregman is the better team player as he gets on base (and his career WAR is almost double Devers).  Defensively Bregman is better than Devers as at times Devers seems to have grown roots.  Bregman is by far the better defensive player.  The only worse contract for a 3rd baseman is Anthony Rendon's (but the Angels only have to eat two more years in that contract, versus 8 more with Rafi's).

Raffy was signed as a 3B. An expensive DH Raffy would be.

[Bellhorn04]

7 hours ago, notin said:

Well, worse defense leads you away from them, yes or no?

mvp was being facetious.  It was about the ARod/Jeter thing.