A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part I

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

For anyone who's been watching the ST games, the Red Sox have no big league-ready shortstops who are expendable as trade bait.

Not only has Mayer looked solid, but Story threw two more balls away yesterday: one he heaved into the Twins dugout, another he bounced 20 feet away from Casas, which he couldn't have reached if he was Mr. Fantastic (or even Mr. Mediocre). For some reason they only gave Story one E, but there were two WTFs...

It is concerning to watch Story's arm issues. I'm not sure moving him to 2B is the right choice. 

I do think he'll make up for the arm issues by getting to balls most SS don't come close to getting, but he can't have a throwing error every 2 games, or worse.

He has not played 2B, this spring, so I do not think that is being considered.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

33 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, this is a tad concerning for a man with a surgically repaired elbow. 

There's always something new to worry about.

I'm not a Doctor Frankenstein (though I watched one on TV), but it would seem that Tommy John Surgery, bracing an elbow with a good tendon taken from another place in the same body, would have a better chance of melding, mending and even strengthening the area... rather than an artificial piece that's not made from human tissue, much less the same human.

People function with fake parts (like hips and knees) all the time, but can elite athletes -- especially pitchers who throw as hard as they can -- ever be as good as new again?  

Isn't this the reason Bo Jackson couldn't play hockey?

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

It is concerning to watch Story's arm issues. I'm not sure moving him to 2B is the right choice. 

I do think he'll make up for the arm issues by getting to balls most SS don't come close to getting, but he can't have a throwing error every 2 games, or worse.

He has not played 2B, this spring, so I do not think that is being considered.

I’d move him to 2b the second Mayer is promoted TBH.

[notin]

21 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

Braves sign verdugo for 1.5 million?????

Braves still looking for an upgrade at SS!!!!!

I suggested a Story/Sean Murphy swap a while back.  With Story short arming his throws and Murphy already injured, it looks bleak.

But if Atlanta hotshot rookie catcher Drake Baldwin gets off to a good start and Story gets back in the groove, it’s not a crazy idea…

[notin]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I'm not a Doctor Frankenstein (though I watched one on TV), but it would seem that Tommy John Surgery, bracing an elbow with a good tendon taken from another place in the same body, would have a better chance of melding, mending and even strengthening the area... rather than an artificial piece that's not made from human tissue, much less the same human.

People function with fake parts (like hips and knees) all the time, but can elite athletes -- especially pitchers who throw as hard as they can -- ever be as good as new again?  

Isn't this the reason Bo Jackson couldn't play hockey?

For a pitcher throwing 80-120 pitches at 85-100mph, you’re pribably right.  But most SS only get 400-500 assists per season, or less than 4 per game.  While those aren’t the only throws they make, the workload is clearly substantially less, even when accounting for a starting pitcher taking 4 games off…

[Larry Cook]

4 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

For anyone who's been watching the ST games, the Red Sox have no big league-ready shortstops who are expendable as trade bait.

Not only has Mayer looked solid, but Story threw two more balls away yesterday: one he heaved into the Twins dugout, another he bounced 20 feet away from Casas, which he couldn't have reached if he was Mr. Fantastic (or even Mr. Mediocre). For some reason they only gave Story one E, but there were two WTFs...

Story and Bergman with 3 dropped anchors each this spring!!!! 
but on the plus side, newcomb really threw the ball well. He said he had just about everything working yesterday and it showed 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

34 minutes ago, notin said:

For a pitcher throwing 80-120 pitches at 85-100mph, you’re pribably right.  But most SS only get 400-500 assists per season, or less than 4 per game.  While those aren’t the only throws they make, the workload is clearly substantially less, even when accounting for a starting pitcher taking 4 games off…

I just never bought into Bloom's claim that Story's range would make up for his damaged wing. What good is a guy with speed to get to more grounders deep in the hole, if his throws barely reach first base from normal depth?

Keeping a ball in the infield can save the occasional run if there are baserunners in scoring position, but so can a relay man with a cannon (who can also dissuade base coaches from even sending runners, like when Evans used to wind up from RF). 

Quick infielders can rob hits by snagging liners before they get to the outfield, but pre-pitch positioning is probably more consistently important. Mayer, not known as a speed demon, seems to be good at this. 

Mayer may be more Ripken, while Story is more Ozzie.

[Larry Cook]

2 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I just never bought into Bloom's claim that Story's range would make up for his damaged wing. What good is a guy with speed to get to more grounders deep in the hole, if his throws barely reach first base from normal depth?

Keeping a ball in the infield can save the occasional run if there are baserunners in scoring position, but so can a relay man with a cannon (who can also dissuade base coaches from even sending runners, like when Evans used to wind up from RF). 

Quick infielders can rob hits by snagging liners before they get to the outfield, but pre-pitch positioning is probably more consistently important. Mayer, not known as a speed demon, seems to be good at this. 

Mayer may be more Ripken, while Story is more Ozzie.

I think you are going to love watching arias at shortstop then 

[notin]

35 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I just never bought into Bloom's claim that Story's range would make up for his damaged wing. What good is a guy with speed to get to more grounders deep in the hole, if his throws barely reach first base from normal depth?

Dansby Swanson won consecutive Gold Gloves despite having one of the weakest - if not the absolute weakest - arm of any MLB shortstop…

[Larry Cook]

48 minutes ago, notin said:

Dansby Swanson won consecutive Gold Gloves despite having one of the weakest - if not the absolute weakest - arm of any MLB shortstop…

Was Swanson’s arm better or worse than nomar???

[moonslav59]

5 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I’d move him to 2b the second Mayer is promoted TBH.

I don't disagree. I just don't know how good Mayer is on D at SS, just yet.

When you read scouting reports that talk of positional; changes, I woner.

[moonslav59]

A weak arm is one thing, but throwing the ball away is worse.

I still think Story is a plus on D. I'm not sure Mayer is better, but if he is, I'm for the swap.

[vegasbob]

The team located closest to me, but not in my heart,  is the LA Angels , actually 60 miles out of LA in Anal-heim. 

Aside from the declining, oft injured  Mike Trout, they have no hitters, including the dud Rendon,  and are not scoring this ST.   

Breslow could make a deal with them , eating $12-$13MM of Yoshi's money.   Package up the deal with someone like Bernadino  or  even Abreu. Sox should ask for Logan O'Hoppe in return to solidify the catching position.

OTH, here's why Breslow hasn't moved Masataka :   Yoshi can actually hit . He will pay most if not all of Yoshi's contract anyway.  There is no guarantee that Dever's shoulders are fully healed and strengthened for the 162 game season  or that the DH role FT will suit Raffy's persona.  There's no guarantee that Bregman will hit well this year, which could lead to other shuffles.

Yoshi's inability to throw a ball 90' will create a great excuse to IL him opening the season  and kicking the can down the road . 

Bloom should have been fired for just this mistake highlighting why accountants  should not be in operations

[Larry Cook]

4 minutes ago, vegasbob said:

The team located closest to me, but not in my heart,  is the LA Angels , actually 60 miles out of LA in Anal-heim. 

Aside from the declining, oft injured  Mike Trout, they have no hitters, including the dud Rendon,  and are not scoring this ST.   

Breslow could make a deal with them , eating $12-$13MM of Yoshi's money.   Package up the deal with someone like Bernadino  or  even Abreu. Sox should ask for Logan O'Hoppe in return to solidify the catching position.

OTH, here's why Breslow hasn't moved Masataka :   Yoshi can actually hit . He will pay most if not all of Yoshi's contract anyway.  There is no guarantee that Dever's shoulders are fully healed and strengthened for the 162 game season  or that the DH role FT will suit Raffy's persona.  There's no guarantee that Bregman will hit well this year, which could lead to other shuffles.

Yoshi's inability to throw a ball 90' will create a great excuse to IL him opening the season  and kicking the can down the road . 

Bloom should have been fired for just this mistake highlighting why accountants  should not be in operations

I think this spring is the best I have seen yoshida swing the bat since we signed him!!! I would love to see what he can do in 2025 to increase his trade value!!!!

[moonslav59]

28 minutes ago, vegasbob said:

The team located closest to me, but not in my heart,  is the LA Angels , actually 60 miles out of LA in Anal-heim. 

Aside from the declining, oft injured  Mike Trout, they have no hitters, including the dud Rendon,  and are not scoring this ST.   

Breslow could make a deal with them , eating $12-$13MM of Yoshi's money.   Package up the deal with someone like Bernadino  or  even Abreu. Sox should ask for Logan O'Hoppe in return to solidify the catching position.

OTH, here's why Breslow hasn't moved Masataka :   Yoshi can actually hit . He will pay most if not all of Yoshi's contract anyway.  There is no guarantee that Dever's shoulders are fully healed and strengthened for the 162 game season  or that the DH role FT will suit Raffy's persona.  There's no guarantee that Bregman will hit well this year, which could lead to other shuffles.

Yoshi's inability to throw a ball 90' will create a great excuse to IL him opening the season  and kicking the can down the road . 

Bloom should have been fired for just this mistake highlighting why accountants  should not be in operations

The thing is, even if Devers misses a lot of time, this year, we could probably get good offense from Refsnyder and others being squeezed by Mayer, Campbell and Anthony. Yes, he's not a bad hitter, but we can do better, IMO.

We could pay every penny of Yoshida's deal and add Bernardino, and it would not be enough for O'Hoppe. Adding Abreu gets us close, but good catchers are hard to find and highly valued by teams that have them.

One factor could be how much LAA likes or wants Abreu and/or if they like/want Wong or Narvaez.

Maybe Yoshida + $10-12M a year, DHam & Wong could get the deal done. They might demand Abreu & Wong.

[moonslav59]

Hendriks says Chapman deserves the closer role. He "earned it."

[notin]

18 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

Was Swanson’s arm better or worse than nomar???

Swanson by far.  Dansby’s arm is so weak he can’t even throw a tantrum….

[notin]

16 hours ago, vegasbob said:

The team located closest to me, but not in my heart,  is the LA Angels , actually 60 miles out of LA in Anal-heim. 

Aside from the declining, oft injured  Mike Trout, they have no hitters, including the dud Rendon,  and are not scoring this ST.   

Breslow could make a deal with them , eating $12-$13MM of Yoshi's money.   Package up the deal with someone like Bernadino  or  even Abreu. Sox should ask for Logan O'Hoppe in return to solidify the catching position.

OTH, here's why Breslow hasn't moved Masataka :   Yoshi can actually hit . He will pay most if not all of Yoshi's contract anyway.  There is no guarantee that Dever's shoulders are fully healed and strengthened for the 162 game season  or that the DH role FT will suit Raffy's persona.  There's no guarantee that Bregman will hit well this year, which could lead to other shuffles.

Yoshi's inability to throw a ball 90' will create a great excuse to IL him opening the season  and kicking the can down the road . 

Bloom should have been fired for just this mistake highlighting why accountants  should not be in operations

What does that trade do for the Angels other than make them older and more expensive?

I don’t get the logic that Bloom should have been fired for signing Yoshida, but Anaheim should clearly trade one of their best young players for him…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No stat comparing arm strength compensates for making consistently accurate throws, from all points of a position. Shortstops that stood out in this regard on Red Sox champions: Orlando Cabrera and Stephen Drew. Both were money.

Guys I can't remember being decisive either way (maybe they didn't have as many chances?): Julio Lugo and Xander Bogaerts.

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

No stat comparing arm strength compensates for making consistently accurate throws, from all points of a position. Shortstops that stood out in this regard on Red Sox champions: Orlando Cabrera and Stephen Drew. Both were money.

Guys I can't remember being decisive either way (maybe they didn't have as many chances?): Julio Lugo and Xander Bogaerts.

The next thing we need to know is the actual difference in elapsed time between strong-armed shortstop throws and weak-armed throws (obviously not including the lollipop throws when the thrower is extremely off balance) and how those translate to out vs. safe calls!

[Old Red]

17 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Hendriks says Chapman deserves the closer role. He "earned it."

Everyone knew what Chapman can do when they signed him, but no one knows what Hendricks has left. I don’t think ST meant anything to Chapman, but it did to Hendricks.

[Bellhorn04]

11 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Everyone knew what Chapman can do when they signed him, but no one knows what Hendricks has left. I don’t think ST meant anything to Chapman, but it did to Hendricks.

Yeah, Hendricks is still pitching himself back into game shape.  Here's hoping he makes it.  We know he has a great attitude.  I think he'll contribute and will get some save opportunities sooner than later.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

29 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, Hendricks is still pitching himself back into game shape.  Here's hoping he makes it.  We know he has a great attitude.  I think he'll contribute and will get some save opportunities sooner than later.

Fans like a player who swears as much as they do when things go wrong, as long as he's not swearing at teammates or franchise Hall of Famers-turned-broadcasters.

[notin]

19 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

A weak arm is one thing, but throwing the ball away is worse.

I still think Story is a plus on D. I'm not sure Mayer is better, but if he is, I'm for the swap.

Absolutely.

Kike did NOT have a weak arm.  But he also less accuracy than my NCAA bracket.  And he may have been the worse Red Sox shortstop since Julio Lugo.

Story won’t win a Gold Glove, but if healthy he should be ok.  With the exception of catcher and pitcher, I would say range supersedes arm strength at every defensive position…
 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

57 minutes ago, notin said:

Absolutely.

Kike did NOT have a weak arm.  But he also less accuracy than my NCAA bracket.  And he may have been the worse Red Sox shortstop since Julio Lugo.

Story won’t win a Gold Glove, but if healthy he should be ok.  With the exception of catcher and pitcher, I would say range supersedes arm strength at every defensive position…
 

 

But I definitely want my catcher strong enough to put a headlock on any batter charging the mound.

As for the pitcher -- on any grounder hit to the right side, I need him get over to cover first base in time for a put-out (even if Mookie is running, Cole). Who cares if he can beat the batter in an arm-wrestle if the guy reaches safely.

[moonslav59]

I like how this team is shaping up and the depth we have at nearly every position. Our rotation has too many injuries, at the same time, but we kind of expected it and planned for it, this time.

Catcher: Narvaez may help on the defensive side of the position, but his offense is a big question. Wong's D has to improve, of he is no longer a true starter. His offense in 2024 looked good, but metrics show he was a bit lucky.

1B: Casas needs to stay healthy. His D is what it is, but the guy can rake.

2B: The big question mark, this spring, but I like our 3 options more than what we've had at 2B over the past 2 years: Mayer, Campbell or a DHam-Romy platoon.

SS: Story's health and arm are at question, as well as his O, but Mayer looks ready, so maybe SS will be the best it's been since Bogey was hitting well.

3B: Bregman is the best all around 3BMan we've had in a long time.

OF: Duran-Rafaela-Abreu could be the best defensive Sox OF, ever. Their offense is not too shabby, either. Anthony, Ref and even Yoshida offer good depth.

DH: Devers, Yoshida & Refsnyder could be the best DH group in the AL.

Rotation: Crochet, Houck, Buehler are the best 3 we've had in a while. Having 6-8 guys to choose for teh 4-5 slots is nice: Bello, Gio, Crawford, Fitts, Newcomb, Priester, Criswell & Dobbins.

Pen: This is our major need area, especially at closer. We may end up finding a decent closer from the top 4 group, but hopefully we won't need to trial and error it for a couple months. I like our pen depth and extended pen depth, but again, I'm hoping we don't have to cycle through 18-20 pitchers to find the best 8. Cora need to choose well. I think we can have a decent 8, but don't ask me to predict who those 8 will be, especially after the 4-5 we all think might be okay or better.

[Randy Red Sox]

24 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I like how this team is shaping up and the depth we have at nearly every position. Our rotation has too many injuries, at the same time, but we kind of expected it and planned for it, this time.

Catcher: Narvaez may help on the defensive side of the position, but his offense is a big question. Wong's D has to improve, of he is no longer a true starter. His offense in 2024 looked good, but metrics show he was a bit lucky.

1B: Casas needs to stay healthy. His D is what it is, but the guy can rake.

2B: The big question mark, this spring, but I like our 3 options more than what we've had at 2B over the past 2 years: Mayer, Campbell or a DHam-Romy platoon.

SS: Story's health and arm are at question, as well as his O, but Mayer looks ready, so maybe SS will be the best it's been since Bogey was hitting well.

3B: Bregman is the best all around 3BMan we've had in a long time.

OF: Duran-Rafaela-Abreu could be the best defensive Sox OF, ever. Their offense is not too shabby, either. Anthony, Ref and even Yoshida offer good depth.

DH: Devers, Yoshida & Refsnyder could be the best DH group in the AL.

Rotation: Crochet, Houck, Buehler are the best 3 we've had in a while. Having 6-8 guys to choose for teh 4-5 slots is nice: Bello, Gio, Crawford, Fitts, Newcomb, Priester, Criswell & Dobbins.

Pen: This is our major need area, especially at closer. We may end up finding a decent closer from the top 4 group, but hopefully we won't need to trial and error it for a couple months. I like our pen depth and extended pen depth, but again, I'm hoping we don't have to cycle through 18-20 pitchers to find the best 8. Cora need to choose well. I think we can have a decent 8, but don't ask me to predict who those 8 will be, especially after the 4-5 we all think might be okay or better.

All I know is that the Sox better lock up Crochet RIGHT NOW.  He may well be the BEST  SP in all of MLB right now.  There is always a risk but he will cost much more if we wait till he hits FA at only 27 if he continues the way he is pitching right now. I have no issue with a 150-175 million 5-6 yr deal. He is worth it. He will give us a chance to win every time he takes the ball. 

 

I like the 2025 Red Sox and expect them to win the AL East this year

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Randy Red Sox said:

All I know is that the Sox better lock up Crochet RIGHT NOW.  He may well be the BEST  SP in all of MLB right now.  There is always a risk but he will cost much more if we wait till he hits FA at only 27 if he continues the way he is pitching right now. I have no issue with a 150-175 million 5-6 yr deal. He is worth it. He will give us a chance to win every time he takes the ball. 

I like the 2025 Red Sox and expect them to win the AL East this year

I'm all for an extension. He's worth an overpay, despite the risks. 

We gave up a lot for him. 2 years will likely not be worth it. We need 5-8 years.

[notin]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

But I definitely want my catcher strong enough to put a headlock on any batter charging the mound.

As for the pitcher -- on any grounder hit to the right side, I need him get over to cover first base in time for a put-out (even if Mookie is running, Cole). Who cares if he can beat the batter in an arm-wrestle if the guy reaches safely.

Pitchers covering first isnt really range; it’s being aware.  A pitcher has a much shorter run than a hitter - by a good ten yards.  
 

A catcher with a good headlock is a nice have…

[Larry Cook]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I like how this team is shaping up and the depth we have at nearly every position. Our rotation has too many injuries, at the same time, but we kind of expected it and planned for it, this time.

Catcher: Narvaez may help on the defensive side of the position, but his offense is a big question. Wong's D has to improve, of he is no longer a true starter. His offense in 2024 looked good, but metrics show he was a bit lucky.

1B: Casas needs to stay healthy. His D is what it is, but the guy can rake.

2B: The big question mark, this spring, but I like our 3 options more than what we've had at 2B over the past 2 years: Mayer, Campbell or a DHam-Romy platoon.

SS: Story's health and arm are at question, as well as his O, but Mayer looks ready, so maybe SS will be the best it's been since Bogey was hitting well.

3B: Bregman is the best all around 3BMan we've had in a long time.

OF: Duran-Rafaela-Abreu could be the best defensive Sox OF, ever. Their offense is not too shabby, either. Anthony, Ref and even Yoshida offer good depth.

DH: Devers, Yoshida & Refsnyder could be the best DH group in the AL.

Rotation: Crochet, Houck, Buehler are the best 3 we've had in a while. Having 6-8 guys to choose for teh 4-5 slots is nice: Bello, Gio, Crawford, Fitts, Newcomb, Priester, Criswell & Dobbins.

Pen: This is our major need area, especially at closer. We may end up finding a decent closer from the top 4 group, but hopefully we won't need to trial and error it for a couple months. I like our pen depth and extended pen depth, but again, I'm hoping we don't have to cycle through 18-20 pitchers to find the best 8. Cora need to choose well. I think we can have a decent 8, but don't ask me to predict who those 8 will be, especially after the 4-5 we all think might be okay or better.

Are abreau Devers, romy and yoshida starting on the DL????