Red Sox: Off Season 2024-2025

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

If STL is really looking at re-tooling, this winter, dumping Arenado and Sonny Gray's salaries might be something they'd like to start with.

Gray is owed $65M/2 with a $25M x 2 CBT hit, and unless we plan on getting close to the line, this might not matter.

Arenado is owed $52M/3 with a $25.5M CBT hit. (He has differed money, and I think COL pays some.)

I know a team looking to retool does not want a guy like Yoshida and his $54M/3 still owed, but if they are able to shed $117M to add $54M, maybe whatever we add to the package makes them say yes.

Would you give Casas and Yoshida for those two? Maybe add Fitts, Priester or Dobbins. Throw in DHam or Wink, if they want. Maybe Casas, Abreu and Yoshida?

We'd get a quality SP'er for 2 years, a huge upgrade on 3B defense and push Devers to 1B and or DH. Our cost would be $63M over 3 years. The AAV hit would be $50.5M - $18M for a total of $32.5M for year 1 & 2. In year 3, Gray drops off and the Tax hit is just $7M more for Arenado over Yoshida.

It might take Yoshida + Mayer. I'm not sure about that one.

Fairly certain the days of worrying about luxury tax implications are over for the Sox…

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Fairly certain the days of worrying about luxury tax implications are over for the Sox…

I'm not so certain that will be the case 2-3 years down the line, but I'd be shocked, if we come within $5-10M of the line in 2025.

[Larry Cook]

2 hours ago, notin said:

I looked it up on BTV.

Helsley has a surplus value of 15.6

Jordan is 2.0.  ERC is 3.2.  Perales is 5.7.

It’s not ridiculous on their model.  But with Perales having TJ, I think that’s a problem.

However if the Sox send Franklin Arias (10.5) instead, it works out much better on the BTV model and becomes a more tempting offer.

 

Of course I never looked at Helsley’s money and years, which might be off-putting…

I think the guys from the athletic are more concerned with shock value and getting subscriptions than actually doing good investigative journalism 

they put two and two together and get 7

[mvp 78]

4 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

Perales, blaze and Elmer 

LOL sold

[Larry Cook]

The good news about hang’em Chaim getting promoted in st Louis is we have a ready made trade partner for some left handed bats!!!!! 

[Old Red]

7 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

The good news about hang’em Chaim getting promoted in st Louis is we have a ready made trade partner for some left handed bats!!!!! 

Good news? The word on the street was Bloom was hard to deal with when he was with Boston, and always wanted to much in trades, and that’s why so few trades were made especially on expiring contracts.

[Larry Cook]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

Good news? The word on the street was Bloom was hard to deal with when he was with Boston, and always wanted to much in trades, and that’s why so few trades were made especially on expiring contracts.

I think the word on the streets was hang’em Chaim over valued his players and prospects. We are in the unique position that hang’em chaim already over values our players and prospects, 

therefore we should be an ideal trading partner for him! 

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

I think the word on the streets was hang’em Chaim over valued his players and prospects. We are in the unique position that hang’em chaim already over values our players and prospects, 

therefore we should be an ideal trading partner for him! 

He might not have the same value now that he’s on the other side, and most likely he would still want more.

[Larry Cook]

18 minutes ago, Old Red said:

He might not have the same value now that he’s on the other side, and most likely he would still want more.

The only way to find out is to contact him, but St. Louis has very little pitching in the pipeline and the quality arms they do have, I am sure any GM would want a king’s ransom for. 

[moonslav59]

15 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

The only way to find out is to contact him, but St. Louis has very little pitching in the pipeline and the quality arms they do have, I am sure any GM would want a king’s ransom for. 

Sonny Gray might be a real good pitcher, but 20 GMs could not afford his $65M/2 remaining contract.

Mikolas is owed $16M/1

Matz $12M/1

Gibson has a $12M option w $1M  buyout.

Fedde is owed $7.5M/1, which is a nice contract, but just 1 year.

Pallante is 25 and won't be traded.

No way will JH pay Gray that much. STL would have to pay over $20M or take Yoshida and some cash to offset that $65M/2 deal.

I don't want Mikolas, Matz or Gibson. I guess Fedde makes the most sense, but we could have traded for him in July.

Getting their closer makes the most sense to us, but Hesley will get a big return and has just 1 arb left. I think, if we do make a big splash trade, it will be for a longer window pitcher. Even gausman's 2 years is too short.

[Old Red]

18 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

If STL is really looking at re-tooling, this winter, dumping Arenado and Sonny Gray's salaries might be something they'd like to start with.

Gray is owed $65M/2 with a $25M x 2 CBT hit, and unless we plan on getting close to the line, this might not matter.

Arenado is owed $52M/3 with a $25.5M CBT hit. (He has differed money, and I think COL pays some.)

I know a team looking to retool does not want a guy like Yoshida and his $54M/3 still owed, but if they are able to shed $117M to add $54M, maybe whatever we add to the package makes them say yes.

Would you give Casas and Yoshida for those two? Maybe add Fitts, Priester or Dobbins. Throw in DHam or Wink, if they want. Maybe Casas, Abreu and Yoshida?

We'd get a quality SP'er for 2 years, a huge upgrade on 3B defense and push Devers to 1B and or DH. Our cost would be $63M over 3 years. The AAV hit would be $50.5M - $18M for a total of $32.5M for year 1 & 2. In year 3, Gray drops off and the Tax hit is just $7M more for Arenado over Yoshida.

It might take Yoshida + Mayer. I'm not sure about that one.

Once again I see pretty much 0% chance the Red Sox would trade for Sonny Gray, or Any Other pitcher with a contract like that just like I pretty much see a 0% chance the Red Sox are in the market for a 3B especially an older one like Arenado with, or without that contract. I won’t even mention that I doubt the Red Sox have Mayer on the market either.🙈🤭

[dgalehouse]

It's not a good idea to trade your best all-around player, the catalyst to your offense and a guy who shows up every day (Duran) for a so-called " Ace " who will probably go 10-9 before he reports that he has tenderness in his pitching elbow and is getting an MRI.  A better idea is to build a better and deeper bullpen, so you don't blow so many leads. 

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

It's not a good idea to trade your best all-around player, the catalyst to your offense and a guy who shows up every day (Duran) for a so-called " Ace " who will probably go 10-9 before he reports that he has tenderness in his pitching elbow and is getting an MRI.  A better idea is to build a better and deeper bullpen, so you don't blow so many leads. 

The BP needs to be shored up, and even more now losing Martin, and Jansen, and as I’ve said before it’s a risky proposition doing it in-house. I hope Whit goes, and stays in the BP, but I have no idea what the brain trust has in store again.

[moonslav59]

I still think trading for a SP'er is the best route to take. Use the limited budget on 2 solid RP'ers, pitching depth and maybe a decent catcher with some RH'd pop.

I guess we could trade Abreu and DHam for pen help and sign a big FA SP'er, but I'm thinking Flaherty might be the best we'd pay for.

[notin]

22 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

I think the guys from the athletic are more concerned with shock value and getting subscriptions than actually doing good investigative journalism 

they put two and two together and get 7

I think any site tossing around trade ideas in October is clearly not doing journalism.  But the Athletic did do a good job with the Astros’ scandal…

[Old Red]

The Red Sox fired 6 coaches. Things are coming together now.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

The Red Sox fired 6 coaches. Things are coming together now.

Hitting coach Peter Fatse somehow survived the purge.

[moonslav59]

29 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Hitting coach Peter Fatse somehow survived the purge.

One was the trainer, Ben Chadwick. 

I'm not so sure this is that big of a shake-up, and how many of these guys were "old guard?" Is this just Brez making minor adjustments and quietly putting his stamp on the organization?

It does seem like there has been a very significant change to the system that began under Bloom and includes the overhaul of the farm system personnel.

 

 

[Old Red]

29 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

One was the trainer, Ben Chadwick. 

I'm not so sure this is that big of a shake-up, and how many of these guys were "old guard?" Is this just Brez making minor adjustments and quietly putting his stamp on the organization?

It does seem like there has been a very significant change to the system that began under Bloom and includes the overhaul of the farm system personnel.

 

 

Last year the Red Sox fired 3B coach, and infield instructor in Febles. How did the new IF instructor work out this year?

[dgalehouse]

One of the terminated coaches was ( get this) the " mental skills" coach. Lol. Maybe that was due to the base running blunders ? 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

On 10/6/2024 at 10:38 AM, Larry Cook said:

I think the word on the streets was hang’em Chaim over valued his players and prospects. We are in the unique position that hang’em chaim already over values our players and prospects, 

therefore we should be an ideal trading partner for him! 

This is so easy: all Breslow has to do is give Paxton a contract worth a million bucks, and he'll sign it to become Red Sox property again -- even though he's retired. Then Brez can trade Paxton back to Bloom for Sonny Gray.

The Card will be happy to get rid of Gray's contract... and Bloom will be happy to have Paxton on the VRL (Voluntary Retired List).

"Guys come out of retirement all the time," Chaim will say. "And when the Big Maple changes his mind -- either next summer or the one after that -- he'll give us just as many quality innings as any more expensive starter I'll only pretend to want."

[Larry Cook]

7 hours ago, Old Red said:

Last year the Red Sox fired 3B coach, and infield instructor in Febles. How did the new IF instructor work out this year?

Is it really the coaches fault that we had so many injuries and that devers,  Valdez, and cassas were already defensive dumpster fires before he stepped foot in the door. 
I thought he did a good job of putting lipstick on the pig!!!!!

[Bellhorn04]

So we're already seeing trades and FA signings.  Personally I like.

Wake up Brez and Sammy! 🙂

[Hugh2]

On 10/10/2024 at 2:03 PM, dgalehouse said:

One of the terminated coaches was ( get this) the " mental skills" coach. Lol. Maybe that was due to the base running blunders ? 

baseball is probably one of the most challenging sports mentally, why wouldn't they have a "mental coach"???

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

baseball is probably one of the most challenging sports mentally, why wouldn't they have a "mental coach"???

They can have all the coaches they want.  But the Red Sox seem to be a team that makes a lot of mental blunders the last few years, so it becomes questionable what the coaches are actually achieving.

[Hugh2]

Here are my offseason additions. 

Shane Bieber 2 years $21 million. (he effectively gets paid to rehab and becomes the mid year addition)

Max Fried 7 years $195 million. Elite starter. 

Tanner Scott 4 years $60 million. Elite Closer

Danny Jansen 2 years $10 million.  back up until Teel is ready, possible long term back up if Wong is traded. 

2025 Budget apx, $223 million dollars. 

 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

So we're already seeing trades and FA signings.  Personally I like.

Wake up Brez and Sammy! 🙂

I don't want Sam signing anyone, personally. 

[Hugh2]

I believe today is the deadline team/player/mutual options to be exercises and for people to opt out.  Free agency really starts tonight, but I suspect the first wave of moves will be resigning's and extensions. 

[notin]

24 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I believe today is the deadline team/player/mutual options to be exercises and for people to opt out.  Free agency really starts tonight, but I suspect the first wave of moves will be resigning's and extensions. 

Resignings and extensions don’t need to wait for the deadline.  Wacha already signed his.

Outside of 1 or 2 (maybe) big names, MLB free agency usually goes nowhere at least until after the Rule 5 draft.  And quite often lately the a couple of the bigger names are still unsigned when the calendar flips to March…

[Bellhorn04]

50 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't want Sam signing anyone, personally. 

Me either, but I have a feeling the dude is heavily involved...