Red Sox: Off Season 2024-2025

[moonslav59]

33 minutes ago, notin said:

Wasn’t the Beckett trade done by Hoyer and Cherington while Theo was doing his Count of Monte Cristo thing in a gorilla suit?

Didn't some claim Larry landed Schill?

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Didn't some claim Larry landed Schill?

Only by those who believed someone so young couldn't push a deal like that over the finish line and/or have the authority to get it done. Also, Theo had a lot of haters at the time. 

[Slasher9]

under theo's watch....two LONG suffering and rabid fanbases got to experience a parade.  he sits at the head of the table

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, Slasher9 said:

under theo's watch....two LONG suffering and rabid fanbases got to experience a parade.  he sits at the head of the table

No doubt, and he left a nice core for Ben, despite some budget issues and a lesser farm than when he was the GM.

[notin]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

No doubt, and he left a nice core for Ben, despite some budget issues and a lesser farm than when he was the GM.

He left Ben with a team that quit in early September.  Ben unloaded the bulk of them and won a World Series a year later…

[Bellhorn04]

19 minutes ago, notin said:

He left Ben with a team that quit in early September.  Ben unloaded the bulk of them and won a World Series a year later…

"The bulk of them" is a tad excessive. 

[mvp 78]

18 minutes ago, notin said:

He left Ben with a team that quit in early September.  Ben unloaded the bulk of them and won a World Series a year later…

2011 couldn't get across the finish line because they had no starting pitching in September and were dragging out a soon to be retired Wakefield. Wake had a 5.94 ERA over his final 7 starts with zero QS. 

851 OPS

33 R

33.1 IP

[moonslav59]

47 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

"The bulk of them" is a tad excessive. 

Certainly, some of ben's additions helped get that 2013 ring, but yes, the "bulk" of returning players were more important:

Papi, Lester, Jake, Pedey, Lackey, Nava, Buch, Doubront, Miller, Tazawa and several more.

The additions list was short, namely Vic, Uehara, Napoli, Drew and Dempster.

The farm left was not great, but it included Bogey, Iggy, Barnes & Middy

 

[dgalehouse]

The 2013 Red Sox were a very good team. In addition to that, the terrorist bombing at the Boston Marathon and the subsequent Boston Strong movement were a real motivating force. The team was on a mission and had an all consuming will to win.  And win they did. 

[Duran Is The Man]

7 hours ago, notin said:

 

Hoping Bernardino and Weissert are missing by then.

Am I the only one suspecting Fulmer might go to the rotation?

yep. Bernardino was productive for a time but i think his use by date has expired.

[moonslav59]

Most RP'ers, even the good ones, have periods of ups and downs. My guess is, both of these guys, along with I Campbell get long looks, next spring and maybe into summer.

I'm not sure I'd write him off, so quickly. His 3.90 xFIP from the start of '23 to July 15th, 2024, ranks top 60 among MLB RP'ers with 59 or more IP.

Weissert has a 4.00 xFIP from 2023-2024 (73 IP.) soxprospects,com wrote this: 

Slider: 79-82 mph. Plus pitch, heavy usage. Sweeping two-plane movement. Fastball: 93-96 mph. Throws both a four-seam and sinker at about the same velocity and release point, the sinker just has more movement to it. Average potential for both pitches.. Previously threw a low 90s cutter, has seemingly phased that pitch out of his arsenal.

Changeup: 83-86 mph. Shows late fade down and away from lefties. Show-me pitch. Career Notes: Rated as having the best slider in the Yankees' system in 2021. Was the International League Pitcher of the Year in 2022. Acquired from New York with Richard Fitts and Nicholas Judice for Alex Verdugo in December 2023. Summation: Potential solid depth reliever. Ceiling of a middle reliever. Has a funky delivery and bat-missing ability with his fastball and slider combo, but held back by inconsistent command.

[harmony]

23 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd rather trade Casas than Campbell or Anthony, and maybe even Teel. I might give them a choice of Casas or Mayer plus secondary pieces.

Maybe adding Yoshida and taking back Garver could be worked into the mix, but we cannot count on him as a real back-up catcher.

Casas, Yoshida and Abreu for Miller & Garver with no money added.

We move Devers to 1B and see who we can play at 3B: Campbell, Mayer, Story, Meidroth. Anthony takes RF from Abreu & Ref.

After this season Masataka Yoshida has $55.8 million remaining on his contract while Mitch Garver has $13.5 million remaining on his contract. The Mariners are unlikely to take on that much more money in hopes that Yoshida improves on his 1.4 fWAR so far in 234 games over his first two MLB seasons.

Even crazier:

Boston sends to Seattle:

Three years of Masataka Yoshida at $55.8 million

Four years of Triston Casas

Seattle sends to Boston:

Five years of Bryce Miller (including four likely arbitration seasons)

One year of Mitch Garver at $13.5 million

One year of Mitch Haniger at $15.5 million

Boston sends to New York Mets:

Five years of Wilyer Abreu

New York Mets send to Seattle:

Four or five years of Brett Baty (depending on service time calculation)

The Red Sox save money in the long run and likely get one more year of team control from Bryce Miller than from Triston Casas

Enough of this silliness.😁

[moonslav59]

35 minutes ago, harmony said:

After this season Masataka Yoshida has $55.8 million remaining on his contract while Mitch Garver has $13.5 million remaining on his contract. The Mariners are unlikely to take on that much more money in hopes that Yoshida improves on his 1.4 fWAR so far in 234 games over his first two MLB seasons.

Even crazier:

Boston sends to Seattle:

Three years of Masataka Yoshida at $55.8 million

Four years of Triston Casas

Seattle sends to Boston:

Five years of Bryce Miller (including four likely arbitration seasons)

One year of Mitch Garver at $13.5 million

One year of Mitch Haniger at $15.5 million

Boston sends to New York Mets:

Five years of Wilyer Abreu

New York Mets send to Seattle:

Four or five years of Brett Baty (depending on service time calculation)

The Red Sox save money in the long run and likely get one more year of team control from Bryce Miller than from Triston Casas

Enough of this silliness.😁

I thought about adding Haniger and Abreu w no Mets involved.

[Larry Cook]

On 9/10/2024 at 7:05 PM, moonslav59 said:

I'd rather trade Casas than Campbell or Anthony, and maybe even Teel. I might give them a choice of Casas or Mayer plus secondary pieces.

Maybe adding Yoshida and taking back Garver could be worked into the mix, but we cannot count on him as a real back-up catcher.

Casas, Yoshida and Abreu for Miller & Garver with no money added.

We move Devers to 1B and see who we can play at 3B: Campbell, Mayer, Story, Meidroth. Anthony takes RF from Abreu & Ref.

I absolutely love this plan!!! I am a huge miller fan! 
This is the kind of bold move that would get us to the playoffs in 2025! 
I think yoshida with that swing has a fantastic season at  the plate in Seattle 

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

I absolutely love this plan!!! I am a huge miller fan! 
This is the kind of bold move that would get us to the playoffs in 2025! 
I think yoshida with that swing has a fantastic season at  the plate in Seattle 

I think harmony is right about SEA saying no.

They might even say no to:

Casas, Abreu & Yoshida 

for

Miller, Haniger ($15.5M in '25) and Garver ($13.5M in '25)

(We are down $9M in '25 but up $18M in '26 and '27 for a net +$27M. Essentially, SEA pays Yoshi $9M x 3 yrs, which seems reasonable.)

Now, Ref can retire and we have a RHB back up in RF to go with Anthony. We have a RHB to DH (Garver) and be a 3rd Catcher. Most of all, we get a very good SP'er for 5 years, at a low cost.

We'd need to fix 1B (Devers?) and then 3B (Meidroth and or Campbell?)

C: Wong & Garver (Teel, when ready)

1B: Devers (Meidroth/Romy)

2B: Mayer, DHam (Campbell)

SS: Story (Mayer, Romy)

3B: Campbell, Meidroth

LF: Duran

CF: Rafaela

RF: Anthony, Haniger

DH: Garver/Haniger- DHam/EValdez

We take a hit on O but improve the D and pitching for $9M a year plus what Miller gets in arbs.

[Duran Is The Man]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I think harmony is right about SEA saying no.

They might even say no to:

Casas, Abreu & Yoshida 

for

Miller, Haniger ($15.5M in '25) and Garver ($13.5M in '25)

(We are down $9M in '25 but up $18M in '26 and '27 for a net +$27M. Essentially, SEA pays Yoshi $9M x 3 yrs, which seems reasonable.)

Now, Ref can retire and we have a RHB back up in RF to go with Anthony. We have a RHB to DH (Garver) and be a 3rd Catcher. Most of all, we get a very good SP'er for 5 years, at a low cost.

We'd need to fix 1B (Devers?) and then 3B (Meidroth and or Campbell?)

C: Wong & Garver (Teel, when ready)

1B: Devers (Meidroth/Romy)

2B: Mayer, DHam (Campbell)

SS: Story (Mayer, Romy)

3B: Campbell, Meidroth

LF: Duran

CF: Rafaela

RF: Anthony, Haniger

DH: Garver/Haniger- DHam/EValdez

We take a hit on O but improve the D and pitching for $9M a year plus what Miller gets in arbs.

they would be stupid for turning that down. they need hitters as much as we need pitchers. 

[moonslav59]

6 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

they would be stupid for turning that down. they need hitters as much as we need pitchers. 

They may not view Yoshi as a big plus batter.

They may not like the fact that Abreu looks like a platoon batter, right now.

They may not like taking on salary, when they could just sign a batter.

They may value Miller more than we think. The 4/5 slot pitcher still starts as many games as the #1.

[Bellhorn04]

The most likely scenario for dispatching Yoshida is a good old-fashioned straight salary dump where the Sox pay about half his salary and get back a minor prospect or two.   

[mvp 78]

36 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The most likely scenario for dispatching Yoshida is a good old-fashioned straight salary dump where the Sox pay about half his salary and get back a minor prospect or two.   

If the Sox really need to do it to free up space for the young guys, it may be necessary. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The most likely scenario for dispatching Yoshida is a good old-fashioned straight salary dump where the Sox pay about half his salary and get back a minor prospect or two.   

That is the most likely scenario, assuming we are intent on trading him.

Anthony in RF with Abreu-Ref at DH and 4th OF makes a ton of sense. Anthony may improve on Yoshida's bat right out of the gate, and at no cost! If we actually spent the "savings" on a Yoshida trade on better or more pitching, it would be a net win-win.

If we can work Campbell into the 2B mix, we could improve again, at no cost. A healthy Story would, as well. (Mayer would be gravy.) Trading Casas with others for a very good pitcher and moving Devers to 1B and Campbell to 3B could improve the D without hurting the O, plus gain bigly on pitching.

Lot's of roads to take, this winter.

[Hugh2]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

That is the most likely scenario, assuming we are intent on trading him.

Anthony in RF with Abreu-Ref at DH and 4th OF makes a ton of sense. Anthony may improve on Yoshida's bat right out of the gate, and at no cost! If we actually spent the "savings" on a Yoshida trade on better or more pitching, it would be a net win-win.

If we can work Campbell into the 2B mix, we could improve again, at no cost. A healthy Story would, as well. (Mayer would be gravy.) Trading Casas with others for a very good pitcher and moving Devers to 1B and Campbell to 3B could improve the D without hurting the O, plus gain bigly on pitching.

Lot's of roads to take, this winter.

Campbell doesn’t have a strong arm, probably the one weak link in his armor right now.  
 

I think he can play SS in a pinch but that arm won’t play full time at 3B

[notin]

19 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

"The bulk of them" is a tad excessive. 

Hyperbolic, but it wasn’t called The Reset Button trade for nothing.  If you measure by player count, it was not the bulk.  But what if you measure by contract value remaining?

[notin]

27 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Campbell doesn’t have a strong arm, probably the one weak link in his armor right now.  
 

I think he can play SS in a pinch but that arm won’t play full time at 3B

Agreed.  If (big “if”) the Sox do decide to re-arrange the infield to accommodate Campbell, a better alignment is Devers at 1b, Campbell at 2b, Story at 3b and Mayer at SS.  Maybe not the best alignment, but better than Campbell at 3b.  (Casas to DH or trade? I have my doubts.)

Campbell’s lack of a position might position him as trade fodder as well.  

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Campbell doesn’t have a strong arm, probably the one weak link in his armor right now.  
 

I think he can play SS in a pinch but that arm won’t play full time at 3B

Maybe Mayer can play 3B, Story SS and Campbell 2B.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Agreed.  If (big “if”) the Sox do decide to re-arrange the infield to accommodate Campbell, a better alignment is Devers at 1b, Campbell at 2b, Story at 3b and Mayer at SS.  Maybe not the best alignment, but better than Campbell at 3b.

Campbell’s lack of a position might position him as trade fodder as well.  

He's the one RHB, though... and a good one, at that!

[notin]

14 hours ago, harmony said:

After this season Masataka Yoshida has $55.8 million remaining on his contract while Mitch Garver has $13.5 million remaining on his contract. The Mariners are unlikely to take on that much more money in hopes that Yoshida improves on his 1.4 fWAR so far in 234 games over his first two MLB seasons.

Even crazier:

Boston sends to Seattle:

Three years of Masataka Yoshida at $55.8 million

Four years of Triston Casas

Seattle sends to Boston:

Five years of Bryce Miller (including four likely arbitration seasons)

One year of Mitch Garver at $13.5 million

One year of Mitch Haniger at $15.5 million

Boston sends to New York Mets:

Five years of Wilyer Abreu

New York Mets send to Seattle:

Four or five years of Brett Baty (depending on service time calculation)

The Red Sox save money in the long run and likely get one more year of team control from Bryce Miller than from Triston Casas

Enough of this silliness.😁

BTV would think you’re a Mets’ fan.

Boston gives up Yoshida (-21), Abreu (29.7), and Casas (27.9) to receive Miller (54.4), Garver (-13) and Haniger (-18).  Lose about $10mil in surplus value.

Seattle gets Casas, Yoshida, and Brett Baty (0.1) for the three Sox above.   About even for them.

The Mets get Abreu (29.7) for Baty (0.1).  They benefit the most and by a lot.

Boston’s job isn’t to weaken their roster to help the Mariners and Mets.  We reserve that privilege for the Braves…

[notin]

31 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He's the one RHB, though... and a good one, at that!

And what’s the Sox biggest need? Pitching.

The Sox have managed to reach a point where the infield is getting crowded.  Casas, Devers, Story, Campbell, Hamilton, Grissom, and some lesser candidates that no one thinks of as starters - Romy, Meidroth, Valdez.  It’s the surplus to deal from.

Story is immovable; he’d probably break if they tried.  Devers is too important for both baseball and PR reasons.  Grissom, Valdez, and Romy aren’t worth much in trades right now. (I could see Meidroth in a lesser trade, like packaged with Wikelman to Washington for one year of closer Kyle Finnegan.)

That leaves Mayer, Campbell, Casas and Hamilton.  While Bloom admittedly thought Devers would end up at 1b, not sure that was ever the plan out is anymore.  Mayer is a popular choice, but after the fragile Story, he’s the only shortstop.  That leaves Campbell and Hamilton.  I like Hamilton, but not sure what level of starter he brings back, beyond maybe insufficient.

So Campbell is trade fodder or the Sox re-arrange the infield and move Casas.  Not sure who plays third in this re-alignment..

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, notin said:

BTV would think you’re a Mets’ fan.

Boston gives up Yoshida (-21), Abreu (29.7), and Casas (27.9) to receive Miller (54.4), Garver (-13) and Haniger (-18).  Lose about $10mil in surplus value.

Seattle gets Casas, Yoshida, and Brett Baty (0.1) for the three Sox above.   About even for them.

The Mets get Abreu (29.7) for Baty (0.1).  They benefit the most and by a lot.

Boston’s job isn’t to weaken their roster to help the Mariners and Mets.  We reserve that privilege for the Braves…

Why would SEA want Baty over Abreu?

[moonslav59]

39 minutes ago, notin said:

And what’s the Sox biggest need? Pitching.

The Sox have managed to reach a point where the infield is getting crowded.  Casas, Devers, Story, Campbell, Hamilton, Grissom, and some lesser candidates that no one thinks of as starters - Romy, Meidroth, Valdez.  It’s the surplus to deal from.

Story is immovable; he’d probably break if they tried.  Devers is too important for both baseball and PR reasons.  Grissom, Valdez, and Romy aren’t worth much in trades right now. (I could see Meidroth in a lesser trade, like packaged with Wikelman to Washington for one year of closer Kyle Finnegan.)

That leaves Mayer, Campbell, Casas and Hamilton.  While Bloom admittedly thought Devers would end up at 1b, not sure that was ever the plan out is anymore.  Mayer is a popular choice, but after the fragile Story, he’s the only shortstop.  That leaves Campbell and Hamilton.  I like Hamilton, but not sure what level of starter he brings back, beyond maybe insufficient.

So Campbell is trade fodder or the Sox re-arrange the infield and move Casas.  Not sure who plays third in this re-alignment..

I'd say almost any bat is trade fodder, but I pointed out that the drawback to choosing Campbell is that he is the only one that bats RH'd.

L Anthony

L Casas

L Mayer

L Teel

(Even Duran & Devers bat LH'd- Abreu, too.)

I get the fact that trading Casas makes Campbell the hardest one to fit into the infield, but we could play Story or mayer at 3B and the other at SS. Both would be better on D at 3B than Devers. I also think Devers would end up better on D than Casas.

I'm also thinking we should not have to trade 2 out of Casas, Anthony, Mayer and Campbell. We can trade for one SP and sign 2-3 other pitchers as FAs.

IMO, if we don't trade Casas, Mayer would be my second choice, although middle infield is a bigger need than OF. In terms of need areas, trading Anthony makes the most sense, but he looks scary good. Scary good gets us a better pitcher, but I keep coming back to starting the package with casas and Abreu, so we can keep Anthony, Campbell and Teel. If a second deal is needed, make it Mayer not Campbell, despite Campbell's worse D at SS. 

Just my take. I can understand choosing Campbell over mayer due to our lack of a decent SS, if Story gets hurt. I do NOT want Rafaela at SS in 2025.

 

[notin]

36 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Why would SEA want Baty over Abreu?

Potential upgrade over Urias/Rojas/whoever?