Red Sox ownership

[Elktonnick]

He also would have been able to maintain his high moral stature without having to worry about, you know, those black people.

 

I am constantly amazed at the mental gymnastics that some people go to rationalize fundamental dishonesty such as that exhibited by Cora.

[Bellhorn04]

I am constantly amazed at the mental gymnastics that some people go to rationalize fundamental dishonesty such as that exhibited by Cora.

 

Cora was punished and reinstated. End of story.

 

It's the 'backstabbing' claims of yours that's the made-up part.

[mvp 78]

I am constantly amazed at the mental gymnastics that some people go to rationalize fundamental dishonesty such as that exhibited by Cora.

 

The mental gymnastics to root for the scumbag Astros owner...

[moonslav59]

The mental gymnastics to root for the scumbag Astros owner...

 

It wasn't just the owner, but other high-ups were caught lying and covering up.

 

No doubt, Cora played a significant role in the implementation of the cheating scheme. It doesn't lessen his culpability to find out it was going on before he became part of it, or that upper management knew of it and allowed it to continue. He did a very dishonest thing, and was punished harshly for it. He was punished more than many others, including the players.

 

He served his sentence.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I am constantly amazed at the mental gymnastics that some people go to rationalize fundamental dishonesty such as that exhibited by Cora.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not amazed by people who read or hear a report from someone in authority like Rob Manfred, and forever after accept his words as fact, when there are literally many voices from the organization in question that have since pointed to offices above field management to expose the true "masterminds" of the most overblown scandal in the history of baseball.

 

Did the coaches and manager use the resources passed down to them from the front office? Absolutely -- and only they paid the consequences of the wrong-doing. The players who truly benefitted got to keep their jobs, their rings, and all the riches that continue to come their way.

 

And Landis probably wouldn't have suspended anyone for sign-stealing, which has always been an accepted part of the game since it was invented. He was more concerned with how the integrity of the game was affected by gamblers, and players trying to lose on purpose.

[Elktonnick]

It wasn't just the owner, but other high-ups were caught lying and covering up.

 

No doubt, Cora played a significant role in the implementation of the cheating scheme. It doesn't lessen his culpability to find out it was going on before he became part of it, or that upper management knew of it and allowed it to continue. He did a very dishonest thing, and was punished harshly for it. He was punished more than many others, including the players.

 

He served his sentence.

 

Cora played a much larger role than you imply. He was not punished harshly at all. He got a slap on the wrist. A just punishment would have been what was given to the Black Sox. The fact that others were involved is irrelevant.

Cora is not fit to be involved in MLB in an official capacity.

[moonslav59]

Cora played a much larger role than you imply. He was not punished harshly at all. He got a slap on the wrist. A just punishment would have been what was given to the Black Sox. The fact that others were involved is irrelevant.

Cora is not fit to be involved in MLB in an official capacity.

 

He was a major part of the cheating upgraded system. I did not mean to imply otherwise.

 

When you look at punishment handed out for other infractions, a one year suspension was "major." Maybe you don't think it was enough, but it was one of the largest penalties handed out in MLB history.

 

No, others doing it is not an excuse, but others going without any punishment, and some higher ups caught lying and not getting any further punishment does add context to what Cora got.

 

The release of further evidence, after the MLB ruling exposes a much wider group of people, some who denied knowing anything, but clearly did.

 

Other teams were caught using technology to steal signs, including the Sox and got less punishment. There is a thing called precedent when determining how harsh a penalty should be.

 

In many ways, Cora's higher ups stabbed him in the back.

[notin]

Unfortunately, I'm not amazed by people who read or hear a report from someone in authority like Rob Manfred, and forever after accept his words as fact, when there are literally many voices from the organization in question that have since pointed to offices above field management to expose the true "masterminds" of the most overblown scandal in the history of baseball.

 

Did the coaches and manager use the resources passed down to them from the front office? Absolutely -- and only they paid the consequences of the wrong-doing. The players who truly benefitted got to keep their jobs, their rings, and all the riches that continue to come their way.

 

And Landis probably wouldn't have suspended anyone for sign-stealing, which has always been an accepted part of the game since it was invented. He was more concerned with how the integrity of the game was affected by gamblers, and players trying to lose on purpose.

 

1. It’s absolutely not the most overblown scandal in the history of baseball.

 

2. Cora was an active participant. He has admitted as much and been punished by the league (along with others), and he served his suspension. Again, HE SERVED HIS IMPOSED PUNISHMENT.

 

3. All this talk of him backstabbing his way to the top is just idle gossip, speculation, and confirmation bias.

 

The guy is no saint, but just because he’s not a saint doesn’t make him The Devil. He’s just a human with good points and bad points and need not be categorized solely as one extreme or the other.

 

4. That he has survived as a manager (unlike Carlos Beltran) does speak to his abilities. And more important, he’s our guy. He’ll do things well. He’ll other things questionably, like every manager ever…

[mvp 78]

Cora played a much larger role than you imply. He was not punished harshly at all. He got a slap on the wrist. A just punishment would have been what was given to the Black Sox. The fact that others were involved is irrelevant.

Cora is not fit to be involved in MLB in an official capacity.

 

Stealing signs to try win vs taking money to intentionally lose. Not the same thing.

[Dipre]

I am constantly amazed at the mental gymnastics that some people go to rationalize fundamental dishonesty such as that exhibited by Cora.

 

The irony is palpable.

[FredLynn]

Cora played a much larger role than you imply. He was not punished harshly at all. He got a slap on the wrist. A just punishment would have been what was given to the Black Sox. The fact that others were involved is irrelevant.

Cora is not fit to be involved in MLB in an official capacity.

 

Do you think that Cora is the only manager to ever condone cheating? My guess is that it happens more frequently than we imagine. He just got caught. He paid his dues for his crime. If he ever gets caught up in any way with cheating-either participating in it or condoning it-he should be banned from the game for life.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1. It’s absolutely not the most overblown scandal in the history of baseball.

 

 

Neither one of us meant to state our opinions as facts. I should have said, it's the the most overblown scandal in my history of baseball. And not just because at least half the teams in the bigs were documented to be involved in similar schemes (except the Yankees, since Manfred banned the public from seeing the evidence against them).

 

There's Pete Rose betting on his team to win and lose. Then almost everybody and his brother sticking sports ball inflation needles in their butts to puff up and break all mlb records that others set on caffeine, nicotine and gansetts. And finally, sign-stealing.

 

Only one has been an accepted part of the game since its invention... in a sport where "stealing" a base is an offensive strategy, and players and coaches are allowed to create, and try to crack, secret codes. And heaven forbid anyone use modern technology, like in 1951 when telescope and electric buzzer conspired on the most famous home run of all time at the Polo Grounds and "the Giants win the pennant, the Giants win the pennant!"

 

At least we now have specially-approved transmitters and receivers so batteries can now plot in privacy. You can be sure no club will ever try to get an edge in the future and hire Sheldon and Raj to intercept such signals.

[notin]

Neither one of us meant to state our opinions as facts. I should have said, it's the the most overblown scandal in my history of baseball. And not just because at least half the teams in the bigs were documented to be involved in similar schemes (except the Yankees, since Manfred banned the public from seeing the evidence against them).

 

There's Pete Rose betting on his team to win and lose. Then almost everybody and his brother sticking sports ball inflation needles in their butts to puff up and break all mlb records that others set on caffeine, nicotine and gansetts. And finally, sign-stealing.

 

Only one has been an accepted part of the game since its invention... in a sport where "stealing" a base is an offensive strategy, and players and coaches are allowed to create, and try to crack, secret codes. And heaven forbid anyone use modern technology, like in 1951 when telescope and electric buzzer conspired on the most famous home run of all time at the Polo Grounds and "the Giants win the pennant, the Giants win the pennant!"

 

At least we now have specially-approved transmitters and receivers so batteries can now plot in privacy. You can be sure no club will ever try to get an edge in the future and hire Sheldon and Raj to intercept such signals.

 

I think the most overblown one was the Steroid scandal.

 

I was talking about the Astros cheating scandal last night. My daughter had to pick an event in history and discuss the impact, etc. for a history project, and she chose the Astros Cheating Scandal as her event. If anything, once you get into it, you start thinking maybe it didn’t get the attention it deserved…

[Hugh2]

I know this is probably an unpopular take, but I don't really give a s*** about the manager. Manager doesn't matter until your roster is good enough to win playoff games. Unless he's literally managing it in such a way that he's damaging young players arms I could care less until the team is good.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think the most overblown one was the Steroid scandal.

 

I was talking about the Astros cheating scandal last night. My daughter had to pick an event in history and discuss the impact, etc. for a history project, and she chose the Astros Cheating Scandal as her event. If anything, once you get into it, you start thinking maybe it didn’t get the attention it deserved…

 

My take is based on the public reactions of virtually all of those who were involved. None of them, except Lying Luhnow, were in denial or pleading for their lives with profuse apologies.

 

Maybe they didn't think what they did was right, but many teams were doing it -- which doesn't excuse wrong-doing, but also makes it easier to shrug shoulders. Remember, a few players on other clubs only showed outrage after the story broke... two years later.

 

Manfred had to make a display of authority because two reporters collaborated on the scoop, and the scandal went viral. But let's not pretend baseball wasn't aware of the issue beforehand -- not when several organizations had departments specifically assigned to aspects of video resources. The Astros did it better because they won, and that wasn't fair.

[jad]

I am constantly amazed at the mental gymnastics that some people go to rationalize fundamental dishonesty such as that exhibited by Cora.

 

dude. You were the one who brought up Landis as the pinnacle of morality.

[Bellhorn04]

I know this is probably an unpopular take, but I don't really give a s*** about the manager. Manager doesn't matter until your roster is good enough to win playoff games. Unless he's literally managing it in such a way that he's damaging young players arms I could care less until the team is good.

 

Bad managers can screw up a team in many ways. See: Valentine, Robert, 2012.

[Old Red]

Cora, Cora, Cora! My first baptism to fire on here was early on when I said I would not have rehired Cora, because of what I felt was his over the top participation in the cheating scandal. I also said I wouldn’t have ever rehired any coach, or manager even if it was Red with the Celtics, the Hoodie with the Pats, or any coach at ND. I was called a HATER for saying that. I like Cora, but I think he is way overrated as a manager, and rides on the coattails of winning the WS in his first year of 2018. The not so great John Farrell won in his first year too. In 2019 the Red Sox wasn’t as good, and Cora even admitted he didn’t have the starting rotation ready to go. I heard someone say yesterday on here that the Red Sox would be worse off without Cora. Meaning they’d have a worse losing record, or last in the whole league. The Red Sox have won a WS with a loaded team in 2018, and have come in last place in the Div in 2022, and 2023 with a not so good lineup, and pitching staff all with Cora. I don’t think he makes that much of a difference either way in the long run.

[mvp 78]

Neither one of us meant to state our opinions as facts. I should have said, it's the the most overblown scandal in my history of baseball. And not just because at least half the teams in the bigs were documented to be involved in similar schemes (except the Yankees, since Manfred banned the public from seeing the evidence against them).

 

There's Pete Rose betting on his team to win and lose. Then almost everybody and his brother sticking sports ball inflation needles in their butts to puff up and break all mlb records that others set on caffeine, nicotine and gansetts. And finally, sign-stealing.

 

Only one has been an accepted part of the game since its invention... in a sport where "stealing" a base is an offensive strategy, and players and coaches are allowed to create, and try to crack, secret codes. And heaven forbid anyone use modern technology, like in 1951 when telescope and electric buzzer conspired on the most famous home run of all time at the Polo Grounds and "the Giants win the pennant, the Giants win the pennant!"

At least we now have specially-approved transmitters and receivers so batteries can now plot in privacy. You can be sure no club will ever try to get an edge in the future and hire Sheldon and Raj to intercept such signals.

 

Yes, sir!

[Hugh2]

Bad managers can screw up a team in many ways. See: Valentine, Robert, 2012.

 

Yes, I agree. But I don't think a good manager would have gone very far with that team either. It was highly flawed and needed a reboot

[notin]

Cora played a much larger role than you imply. He was not punished harshly at all. He got a slap on the wrist. A just punishment would have been what was given to the Black Sox. The fact that others were involved is irrelevant.

Cora is not fit to be involved in MLB in an official capacity.

 

That’s simply your opinion.

 

The people entrusted with levying said punishment clearly felt differently. And that is not the fault of Cora.

 

If it is going to be compared to the 1919 Black Sox scandal, Cora is far and away not the biggest difference. How many Astros players were suspended for even a single game?

[Elktonnick]

That’s simply your opinion.

 

The people entrusted with levying said punishment clearly felt differently. And that is not the fault of Cora.

 

If it is going to be compared to the 1919 Black Sox scandal, Cora is far and away not the biggest difference. How many Astros players were suspended for even a single game?

 

The how about others excuse doesn't cut it. Cora cheated and stole the world series.. Until he was caught he was proud of it

The fact that Manfred did not do his job is immaterial. Cheaters do not belong in managerial positions in baseball.

[moonslav59]

The how about others excuse doesn't cut it. Cora cheated and stole the world series.. Until he was caught he was proud of it

The fact that Manfred did not do his job is immaterial. Cheaters do not belong in managerial positions in baseball.

 

Ban the players, too?

[Bellhorn04]

Ban the players, too?

 

Apparently it's only bench coaches that should be tossed.

[notin]

Cora, Cora, Cora! My first baptism to fire on here was early on when I said I would not have rehired Cora, because of what I felt was his over the top participation in the cheating scandal. I also said I wouldn’t have ever rehired any coach, or manager even if it was Red with the Celtics, the Hoodie with the Pats, or any coach at ND. I was called a HATER for saying that. I like Cora, but I think he is way overrated as a manager, and rides on the coattails of winning the WS in his first year of 2018. The not so great John Farrell won in his first year too. In 2019 the Red Sox wasn’t as good, and Cora even admitted he didn’t have the starting rotation ready to go. I heard someone say yesterday on here that the Red Sox would be worse off without Cora. Meaning they’d have a worse losing record, or last in the whole league. The Red Sox have won a WS with a loaded team in 2018, and have come in last place in the Div in 2022, and 2023 with a not so good lineup, and pitching staff all with Cora. I don’t think he makes that much of a difference either way in the long run.

 

That’s fine.

 

I would say there is a big difference between not wanting him hired back and implementing a lifetime ban. I understand why many would agree with the former, but I feel the punishment for his transgression was best left to those in charge…

[notin]

Ban the players, too?

 

The biggest punishment may have been levied on whistle blower Mike Fiers. Two months after outing his former team, he signed his last one year contract with Oakland. And no one has touched him since…

[jad]

That’s simply your opinion.

 

The people entrusted with levying said punishment clearly felt differently. And that is not the fault of Cora.

 

If it is going to be compared to the 1919 Black Sox scandal, Cora is far and away not the biggest difference. How many Astros players were suspended for even a single game?

 

None. And once they were granted immunity, they sang like canaries. Cora did NOT throw his players under the bus, and spoke very frankly about his own experiences in Puerto Rico and the matter of sign-stealing, which was accepted as a normal part of the game.

[Elktonnick]

Absolutely

[moonslav59]

None. And once they were granted immunity, they sang like canaries. Cora did NOT throw his players under the bus, and spoke very frankly about his own experiences in Puerto Rico and the matter of sign-stealing, which was accepted as a normal part of the game.

 

Sign stealing is not against the rules, even today.

 

Using technology to do it is.

[Bellhorn04]

Good piece from Over the Monster pointing out the flaws in the latest messaging from Werner and Breslow:

 

https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/1/17/24041579/no-pressure-dudes-red-sox-free-agent-rumors-werner-throttle-montgomery-mayer-anthony-teel-snell

 

There’s a lot to unpack here, and I’m tempted to start with the ludicrous claim that creating a talent pipeline of internally developed players is the “fastest path to a World Series team.” It plainly is not. It’s the cheapest path to building a winner — and if your owner insists on resetting the luxury tax at regular intervals, then it’s also probably the best way to achieve sustained success — but it is in no uncertain terms the fastest path.