Red Sox ownership

[Hugh2]

That's worked out great for them so far.

 

Business people will try to make things work for as cheap as possible. This is the way the capitalistic part of the world works. Why what Notin is saying is a surprise to anyone is beyond me.

 

This is accurate, but a good business person also looks at the payoff of an investment not just the cost of doing business.

 

I’m a business man, buying a piece of equipment for $100k can be the best or worse decision I can make. If I believe the return on my investment is worth the cost, then it’s really just a question of whether or not I can afford it.

 

Sox can afford all these guys they’re not signing. They just don’t believe these investments are worth it.

 

In a vacuum, I can’t disagree with that, but at a certain point in time someone has to question their evaluation process if they have seemingly decided almost no premium free agent is worth investing in for several years.

 

It’s one thing to sit a year of free agency out. But year after year, and the biggest investment they’ve made in almost a decade has been Devers and Story. It just doesn’t make much since. Their affinity towards shying away from the top of the pitching market would make more sense if they actually invested in finding and developing young pitching.

 

At the very least, if they had a plan in bringing in young pitching. They have failed miserably.

[Bellhorn04]

This is a fair point. But they obviously believe that they can do this in a more economical way and are going to try knocking on that door until they can find the person with the right key (in this case they're hoping it's Breslow).

 

Bringing in a cerebral type with no previous experience as CBO to replace a cerebral type with no previous experience as CBO, and hoping the results are different.

 

It seems like one of those cases where someone brings up "the definition of insanity".

[Duran Is The Man]

Not sure where you live, but that goes back to MLB not marketing their stars, which is some sort of weird and stupid tradition in this sport. How come almost no MLB stars do national commercials? Or make appearances on TV shows? I can easily name a dozen football players and basketball players who have hosted Saturday Night Live, but not a single baseball player. I can name as many football and basketball players who went on to become successful actors. Again, not a single MLB player.

 

Why, if this sport is as popular as it is, does it work so hard to keep itself out of mainstream? Even their pathetic broadcasting packages and archaic blackout rules tell us how badly MLB wants to keep its product and stars as some sort of National Secret…

 

i won't disagree with this. my point is that fans want to root for successful teams and superstars. the Sox have neither.

[Old Red]

Bringing in a cerebral type with no previous experience as CBO to replace a cerebral type with no previous experience as CBO, and hoping the results are different.

 

It seems like one of those cases where someone brings up "the definition of insanity".

 

The problem is the experienced ones didn’t want any part of the Red Sox, and wouldn’t even interview, which is a bad look in itself.

[Bellhorn04]

The problem is the experienced ones didn’t want any part of the Red Sox, and wouldn’t even interview, which is a bad look in itself.

 

Yes, that's all part of the snowballing effects of bad management and bad PR.

[notin]

Bringing in a cerebral type with no previous experience as CBO to replace a cerebral type with no previous experience as CBO, and hoping the results are different.

 

It seems like one of those cases where someone brings up "the definition of insanity".

 

Well, that operates on the assumption that all inexperienced people are the same.

 

I have no experience as a bus driver. My dog has no experience as a bus driver. Whose bus are you getting on? (The pigeon is not an option.)

[notin]

Yes, that's all part of the snowballing effects of bad management and bad PR.

 

 

Also the least of the Sox problems.

 

Would this team be better off if we had an experienced CBO with no budget?

[Randy Red Sox]

No, I'm saying that splurging money is no guarantee of success. Apart from the useless 2020 win, they haven't won it all in a while and consider themselves failures for not doing so. Their words, not mine.

 

Regardless, let's not get away from the point. Business people try to gain as much as they can from as little as possible. Such is the world. Nothing Henry and co are doing this year is different to what they've done in years past. Success while being as economical as possible. It's like people are just noticing.

 

I guess this is why the 'full throttle thing' just will not die, even though people should have seen it for the bluster it was the moment it left his lips.

 

Would you rather be a Dodgers team or a Red Sox team fan right now?

[notin]

Would you rather be a Dodgers team or a Red Sox team fan right now?

 

And which one would you rather have been from 2003 through 2021?

 

Or, if you prefer, 1989 through 2021?

[Bellhorn04]

Well, that operates on the assumption that all inexperienced people are the same.

 

I have no experience as a bus driver. My dog has no experience as a bus driver. Whose bus are you getting on? (The pigeon is not an option.)

 

That would make Breslow the human and Bloom the dog. It's a funny analogy, but not especially useful.

[Bellhorn04]

Also the least of the Sox problems.

 

Would this team be better off if we had an experienced CBO with no budget?

 

I've consistently said the two things are related.

 

If you're focused on keeping payroll down, it does make perfect sense to have a young, inexperienced guy to serve as front man/scapegoat.

[Old Red]

Also the least of the Sox problems.

 

Would this team be better off if we had an experienced CBO with no budget?

 

Yes I have no doubt a more experienced CBO with a little bit of competency, which Bloom had neither would make the Red Sox better. Budget is just one of the Red Sox problems, what you do with that budget is the biggest. The jury hasn’t even convened yet on Bres, but if DD was still there even with the same budget I believe the Red Sox would be better off.

[jad]

For you economists out there, please explain in terms us dubs can understand: you have a wildly successful business well over a century old; it has fiercely loyal customers. So then, with no warning, you begin putting out a grossly inferior product, far worse than the product of your competitors; you get rid of some of your most popular employees; you do not lower prices; you alienate a good portion of those customers--many (as here) who have been supporting you for over 70 years. Please explain slowly and clearly why this is a good business plan, you know, so those of us who do not understand the nuances of capitalism as well as you do will understand.

[dgalehouse]

As stated before, the Rays are a cheap organization. They do have a great manager. And a few good players. But they could not draw flies at a strawberry festival. They have no championships. Billy Beane is another fraud who has ruined a once proud franchise. He is the flim flam man. " Money Ball " scam. Zero championships, just like the Rays. A fan base that is apathetic. Move on to Vegas. Tampa Bay and Oakland are both just small time Charlies. The Boston Red Sox should never try to imitate these organizations. The owner is beyond wealthy. Don't be cheap. Be the big market, big time team that they are supposed to be.

[notin]

Yes I have no doubt a more experienced CBO with a little bit of competency, which Bloom had neither would make the Red Sox better. Budget is just one of the Red Sox problems, what you do with that budget is the biggest. The jury hasn’t even convened yet on Bres, but if DD was still there even with the same budget I believe the Red Sox would be better off.

 

If DD was here instead of Breslow, we’d probably still have Sale. If Sale is healthy, the Sox are better. But if not, the Sox are most likely worse off than they are today.

 

Would we have Giolito? I could see DD making that move. But if he didn’t, what would he have gotten that was better for the same money?

[Old Red]

If DD was here instead of Breslow, we’d probably still have Sale. If Sale is healthy, the Sox are better. But if not, the Sox are most likely worse off than they are today.

 

Would we have Giolito? I could see DD making that move. But if he didn’t, what would he have gotten that was better for the same money?

If DD was still here we wouldn’t have gone through 4 years of Bloom, so I’m not just talking about this year. I don’t subscribe to the theory like one on here that no one else could have done better than Bloom under the so called budget, and restrictions.

[notin]

If DD was still here we wouldn’t have gone through 4 years of Bloom, so I’m not just talking about this year. I don’t subscribe to the theory like one on here that no one else could have done better than Bloom under the so called budget, and restrictions.

 

 

I subscribe to the theory that Dombrowski wouldn’t have posted nearly as well as you think on that budget…

[Old Red]

I subscribe to the theory that Dombrowski wouldn’t have posted nearly as well as you think on that budget…

 

To think that no one else could have done better than Bloom is like so many on here saying the Red Sox couldn’t get anyone better than Kike for $10M. I didn’t even say how much better DD would have done than Bloom, but only he could have done better. Bloom didn’t set the bar very high.

[notin]

To think that no one else could have done better than Bloom is like so many on here saying the Red Sox couldn’t get anyone better than Kike for $10M. I didn’t even say how much better DD would have done than Bloom, but only he could have done better. Bloom didn’t set the bar very high.

 

Dombrowski’s parting gifts weren’t much better. $145mill for Sale?h

 

Another way to look at it is, while increasing spending, Dombrowski’s Phillies went 259-227 over the last 3 seasons. While maintaining payroll, Bloom’s Red Sox went 248-238 over the last 3 seasons.

 

In completely different situations, only 11 more wins over 3 years. That’s not a lot. In fact, after two years, Bloom’s team actually had a better record.

 

Maybe if Bloom figured out what to do at a trade deadline, things would have been all but equal…

[Old Red]

Dombrowski’s parting gifts weren’t much better. $145mill for Sale?h

 

Another way to look at it is, while increasing spending, Dombrowski’s Phillies went 259-227 over the last 3 seasons. While maintaining payroll, Bloom’s Red Sox went 248-238 over the last 3 seasons.

 

In completely different situations, only 11 more wins over 3 years. That’s not a lot. In fact, after two years, Bloom’s team actually had a better record.

 

Maybe if Bloom figured out what to do at a trade deadline, things would have been all but equal…

 

I was all over DD the second he gave Sale that extension, and I think he could have done better with the Bogey, and Mookie contracts. Boston had 4 winning seasons under DD, and a WS title. What DD has done, or hasn’t done with the Phillies has no bearing on what he would have done with the Red Sox, but if the Red Sox had done what the Phillies have done the last 3 years I think most Red Sox fans would have taken that.

[Bellhorn04]

Dombrowski’s parting gifts weren’t much better. $145mill for Sale?h

 

Another way to look at it is, while increasing spending, Dombrowski’s Phillies went 259-227 over the last 3 seasons. While maintaining payroll, Bloom’s Red Sox went 248-238 over the last 3 seasons.

 

In completely different situations, only 11 more wins over 3 years. That’s not a lot. In fact, after two years, Bloom’s team actually had a better record.

 

But to add a little more context, the Phillies got better under Dombrowski, and the Red Sox got worse under Bloom.

[notin]

But to add a little more context, the Phillies got better under Dombrowski, and the Red Sox got worse under Bloom.

 

True, and it was largely related to spending.

 

And to add more context, Bloom was supposed to build a farm system, and he did vastly improve it…

[Old Red]

But to add a little more context, the Phillies got better under Dombrowski, and the Red Sox got worse under Bloom.

 

How many Red Sox fans wouldn’t take a trip to the WS, and a postseason appearance the last two years like the Phillies have done? Trying to say the Phillies haven’t been much better is ridiculous.🤭🙈

[moonslav59]

It's estimated by Wikipedia at $4 billion US.

 

It's also estimated that the Sox are worth $4.5B. JH & Co. bought them for $750M just over 20 years ago.

 

Many super rich people are stingy with their money. In some ways, that's how they got so rich.

[moonslav59]

But to add a little more context, the Phillies got better under Dombrowski, and the Red Sox got worse under Bloom.

 

Just a tiny difference in spending trends.

[Old Red]

True, and it was largely related to spending.

 

And to add more context, Bloom was supposed to build a farm system, and he did vastly improve it…

Bloom’s main purpose should have been to have a winning record, and a trip to the postseason in the here, and now. Like Cora said it doesn’t matter what your farm rankings are, but what you do, or don’t do in October.

[Old Red]

Just a tiny difference in spending trends.

 

And you keep thinking JH is going to continue his spending trend like he has in the past despite how much things have changed just in the last five years.

[Hitch]

Bringing in a cerebral type with no previous experience as CBO to replace a cerebral type with no previous experience as CBO, and hoping the results are different.

 

It seems like one of those cases where someone brings up "the definition of insanity".

 

I think you must know this is a ridiculous point.

[Hitch]

This is accurate, but a good business person also looks at the payoff of an investment not just the cost of doing business.

 

I’m a business man, buying a piece of equipment for $100k can be the best or worse decision I can make. If I believe the return on my investment is worth the cost, then it’s really just a question of whether or not I can afford it.

 

Sox can afford all these guys they’re not signing. They just don’t believe these investments are worth it.

 

In a vacuum, I can’t disagree with that, but at a certain point in time someone has to question their evaluation process if they have seemingly decided almost no premium free agent is worth investing in for several years.

 

It’s one thing to sit a year of free agency out. But year after year, and the biggest investment they’ve made in almost a decade has been Devers and Story. It just doesn’t make much since. Their affinity towards shying away from the top of the pitching market would make more sense if they actually invested in finding and developing young pitching.

 

At the very least, if they had a plan in bringing in young pitching. They have failed miserably.

 

Little to argue with here. In their defence (which might not seem like it but I don't really like doing ha!) most large contracts, especially to pitchers in their 30's tend to be not good.

 

They're not wrong to balk at these contracts. But as I mentioned the other day, the rest of the organisation isn't particularly successfully set up at the moment either. Although there are clear shoots of improvement.

[Randy Red Sox]

True, and it was largely related to spending.

 

And to add more context, Bloom was supposed to build a farm system, and he did vastly improve it…

 

why ? just because it seems we have 3 top position player prospects that are as yet unproven? Is that the reward for 3 last place finishes in 4 years under Bloom? And ZERO real pitching prospects.