A Realistic View at 2024: Part I

[mvp 78]

Also, what is with the "wild talk?"

[moonslav59]

You think Stroman will be 30AAV?

 

No. I thought it was obvious I was talking total contract money.

 

$60M/3 Stroman

$45M/3 Lugo

 

If you are talking just AVV, I'm not sure who you get much for $15M/3: Michael A Taylor?

 

[moonslav59]

Also, what is with the "wild talk?"

 

Post #3250.

 

You said it less than 2 hours ago.

[mvp 78]

No. I thought it was obvious I was talking total contract money.

 

$60M/3 Stroman

$45M/3 Lugo

 

If you are talking just AVV, I'm not sure who you get much for $15M/3: Michael A Taylor?

 

 

I'd pocket the FA $ and hope to use it at the deadline.

[moonslav59]

I'd pocket the FA $ and hope to use it at the deadline.

 

Not a bad idea. $5M AAV at the deadline is a $15M a year player.

[moonslav59]

BTV accepted:

 

Sale, Jansen and Martin plus $33M to PHI for pitching prospect Mick Abel.

 

Pivetta, EValdez plus $4M to STL for pitching prospect Tink Hence.

 

Full throttle!

[moonslav59]

BTV accepted:

 

Sale, Jansen and Martin plus $33M to PHI for pitching prospect Mick Abel.

 

Pivetta, EValdez plus $4M to STL for pitching prospect Tink Hence.

 

Full throttle!

 

The 2023 Sox

C Wong & McGuire

1B Casas (Dalbec)

2B Reyes, DHam (Yorke)

SS Story (Mayer)

3B Devers

LF Duran & Abreu (Refsnyder)

CF Abreu & Rafaela (Anthony)

RF O'Neill (trade at deadline)

DH Yoshida

 

SP1 Bello

SP2 Crawford

SP3 Houck

SP4 Murphy

SP5 Walter (Gambrell/Wikelman/Dobbins/ICoffey/Penrod/Song/Bastardo)

 

Closer Whitlock

RP2 Winckoski

RP3 Schreiber

RP4 Bernardino

RP5 Mata

RP6 Slaten

RP7 Fitts/Kelly/Criswell/Weissert/Wikelman/Perales

[Bellhorn04]

Did Yoshida shoot your dog?

 

No. My dog is still looking for the man who shot his paw.

 

I don't know why you like Yoshida at that price. Can't field, slow as molasses, 15 HR and 72 RBI, .736 road OPS.

 

It was a bad signing. They should have used that kind of money on pitching. It was more evidence of Bloom's scattershot, incoherent roster construction.

[moonslav59]

No. My dog is still looking for the man who shot his paw.

 

I don't know why you like Yoshida at that price. Can't field, slow as molasses, 15 HR and 72 RBI, .736 road OPS.

 

It was a bad signing. They should have used that kind of money on pitching. It was more evidence of Bloom's scattershot, incoherent roster construction.

 

I'm not sure anyone still "likes" the deal, but few seem to hate it as much as you do.

 

There is still time for him to redeem himself to an unknown degree.

 

Is it hard to imagine him hitting:

 

.306 18 80 (.851 OPS)with no errors as a DH?

 

That was his pace on August 1, 2023. (21 Hrs and 91 RBI over 162 games)

 

His .367 OBP on August 1st would have led the team.

 

I'm not projecting or predicting he give us those numbers for the full 2024 season or the remainder of his contract, but he could. (Maybe even better.)

[notin]

No. My dog is still looking for the man who shot his paw.

 

I don't know why you like Yoshida at that price. Can't field, slow as molasses, 15 HR and 72 RBI, .736 road OPS.

 

It was a bad signing. They should have used that kind of money on pitching. It was more evidence of Bloom's scattershot, incoherent roster construction.

 

Senga was the clear better option at that price. But I’m willing to give Yoshida another shot. He did have stretches where he was the type of high OBP hitter the Sox needed.

 

I didn’t realize until I saw a Sox game in person how tiny he is. He walked out on the field next to Casas, and from where I was sitting (right behind first base), they looked like they were participating in a father-son game…

[Bellhorn04]

Didn't Breslow already say something about preferring not to have a full time DH? If that's the case Yoshida will be back in LF.

[Bellhorn04]

Yoshida is, or should be, a DH. And DH's are one position that aren't seeing the big contracts as much. JD Martinez had another decent season and there's no rush to sign him.

[moonslav59]

Didn't Breslow already say something about preferring not to have a full time DH? If that's the case Yoshida will be back in LF.

 

Maybe he DHs vs RHPs (120 games) and plays LF vs LHPs (42 games) and Ref DHs vs lefties.

 

2023 GS

84 LF

49 DH

29 days off

 

2024?

40-50 LF

12 days off

100-110 at DH

[moonslav59]

Senga was the clear better option at that price. But I’m willing to give Yoshida another shot. He did have stretches where he was the type of high OBP hitter the Sox needed.

 

I didn’t realize until I saw a Sox game in person how tiny he is. He walked out on the field next to Casas, and from where I was sitting (right behind first base), they looked like they were participating in a father-son game…

 

It is easy to what if past FA signings, but this one made a lot of sense, at the time.

 

$15M x 5 for Senga vs $18M x 5 for Yoshida.

 

We could have also done this AAV swap out:

$18M Yoshida

$15M Senga

 

instead of...

$18M Yoshida

$10M Kluber

$2M Tapia + the $3M from the Mondesi trade

 

 

[oldtimer]

It is easy to what if past FA signings, but this one made a lot of sense, at the time.

 

$15M x 5 for Senga vs $18M x 5 for Yoshida.

 

We could have also done this AAV swap out:

$18M Yoshida

$15M Senga

 

instead of...

$18M Yoshida

$10M Kluber

$2M Tapia + the $3M from the Mondesi trade

 

 

The idea of Yoshida helping to sign Yamamoto is now ancient history. Do we really need slow, below average fielding players who can only realistically perform as DHers on the team. We seem to be going full throttle but are driving a Citroen 2CV. We need bold moves that bring us above average players at all positions, particularly pitching. I am not optimistic that is our direction.

[notin]

Didn't Breslow already say something about preferring not to have a full time DH? If that's the case Yoshida will be back in LF.

 

I stopped believing anything they said after “full throttle.”

[moonslav59]

The idea of Yoshida helping to sign Yamamoto is now ancient history. Do we really need slow, below average fielding players who can only realistically perform as DHers on the team. We seem to be going full throttle but are driving a Citroen 2CV. We need bold moves that bring us above average players at all positions, particularly pitching. I am not optimistic that is our direction.

 

I'm not thrilled about Yoshida.

 

I doubt we can trade him without paying something.

 

I am still optimistic about our longer term outlook, despite knowing all these guys won't be clear pluses in a year or two, but we have a pretty good amount of promising players that should be able to do well filling in for those who fail.

 

I realize we need more than just 20-26 plus players. We need a few studs or at least a fair amount of plus-plus players.

 

I feel we are about 3 key plus-plus players from being in the thick of the playoff race in 2024. Hell, we were in the race in 2023, until the walls came crumbling down.

 

2025:

Bello, Crawford, Houck, Whitlock, Fitts, Gambrell/Wikelman/Perales

Winckowski, Screiber, Bernardino, Campbell, Slaten, Mata, Weissert/Kelly/Murphy/Guerrero

Teel, Wong/McGuire

Casas

Story, EValdez

Mayer, DHam

Devers, Meidroth

Yoshida, Duran

Rafaela, Anthony

Abreu

Yorke (Hickey/Jordan)

 

[moonslav59]

I stopped believing anything they said after “full throttle.”

 

We should find all the quotes from before 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023.

[Randy Red Sox]

I'm not thrilled about Yoshida.

 

I doubt we can trade him without paying something.

 

I am still optimistic about our longer term outlook, despite knowing all these guys won't be clear pluses in a year or two, but we have a pretty good amount of promising players that should be able to do well filling in for those who fail.

 

I realize we need more than just 20-26 plus players. We need a few studs or at least a fair amount of plus-plus players.

 

I feel we are about 3 key plus-plus players from being in the thick of the playoff race in 2024. Hell, we were in the race in 2023, until the walls came crumbling down.

 

2025:

Bello, Crawford, Houck, Whitlock, Fitts, Gambrell/Wikelman/Perales

Winckowski, Screiber, Bernardino, Campbell, Slaten, Mata, Weissert/Kelly/Murphy/Guerrero

Teel, Wong/McGuire

Casas

Story, EValdez

Mayer, DHam

Devers, Meidroth

Yoshida, Duran

Rafaela, Anthony

Abreu

Yorke (Hickey/Jordan)

 

 

At this point the Red sox are GUARANTEED another 5th place AL East finish in 2024

[a700hitter]

Are the Savanah Bananas scheduled at Fenway for any dates in 24. I’d rather pay to see them.

[oldtimer]

I'm not thrilled about Yoshida.

 

I doubt we can trade him without paying something.

 

I am still optimistic about our longer term outlook, despite knowing all these guys won't be clear pluses in a year or two, but we have a pretty good amount of promising players that should be able to do well filling in for those who fail.

 

I realize we need more than just 20-26 plus players. We need a few studs or at least a fair amount of plus-plus players.

 

I feel we are about 3 key plus-plus players from being in the thick of the playoff race in 2024. Hell, we were in the race in 2023, until the walls came crumbling down.

 

2025:

Bello, Crawford, Houck, Whitlock, Fitts, Gambrell/Wikelman/Perales

Winckowski, Screiber, Bernardino, Campbell, Slaten, Mata, Weissert/Kelly/Murphy/Guerrero

Teel, Wong/McGuire

Casas

Story, EValdez

Mayer, DHam

Devers, Meidroth

Yoshida, Duran

Rafaela, Anthony

Abreu

Yorke (Hickey/Jordan)

 

 

The Sox have spent the last few years near or at the bottom of our division. During that time, we have improved our minor league prospects and we reset the payroll (a year later than necessary). Clearly we need pitching upgrades for 2024, plus we have an outfield without plus plus players, a hole at 2nd base and defensive issues at the corners. Otherwise, we have a lot of room for improvement.

 

The choice for starting pitching will be either to get into the sure to be bidding wars' for mature FA's. Big multiyear contracts, or we can try to trade for quality arms by offering some of our best prospects. you have identified possible choices in other posts but they represent our best prospects (Rafaela, Anthony, Mayer, Yorke, etc.

 

We have money to spend, but so far notching has been done there. Will the fans be facing a 2024 in which the team tries to integrate our best prospects while unloading those that are marginal? Perhaps that would be a better path than trading those prospects for a couple or arms that will only marginally move the team forward.

 

Will Cora be with the team in 2025? I wouldn't count on it.

 

So bold moves are required but also done wisely. So far nothing has happened that suggests we are on the upswing.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

The Sox have spent the last few years near or at the bottom of our division. During that time, we have improved our minor league prospects and we reset the payroll (a year later than necessary). Clearly we need pitching upgrades for 2024, plus we have an outfield without plus plus players, a hole at 2nd base and defensive issues at the corners. Otherwise, we have a lot of room for improvement.

 

The choice for starting pitching will be either to get into the sure to be bidding wars' for mature FA's. Big multiyear contracts, or we can try to trade for quality arms by offering some of our best prospects. you have identified possible choices in other posts but they represent our best prospects (Rafaela, Anthony, Mayer, Yorke, etc.

 

We have money to spend, but so far notching has been done there. Will the fans be facing a 2024 in which the team tries to integrate our best prospects while unloading those that are marginal? Perhaps that would be a better path than trading those prospects for a couple or arms that will only marginally move the team forward.

 

Will Cora be with the team in 2025? I wouldn't count on it.

 

So bold moves are required but also done wisely. So far nothing has happened that suggests we are on the upswing.

 

Nothing? Are you serious?

 

What about that minor league catcher they just signed to catch those minor league pitchers they just acquired?

[moonslav59]

 

The Sox have spent the last few years near or at the bottom of our division. During that time, we have improved our minor league prospects and we reset the payroll (a year later than necessary). Clearly we need pitching upgrades for 2024, plus we have an outfield without plus plus players, a hole at 2nd base and defensive issues at the corners. Otherwise, we have a lot of room for improvement.

 

The choice for starting pitching will be either to get into the sure to be bidding wars' for mature FA's. Big multiyear contracts, or we can try to trade for quality arms by offering some of our best prospects. you have identified possible choices in other posts but they represent our best prospects (Rafaela, Anthony, Mayer, Yorke, etc.

 

We have money to spend, but so far notching has been done there. Will the fans be facing a 2024 in which the team tries to integrate our best prospects while unloading those that are marginal? Perhaps that would be a better path than trading those prospects for a couple or arms that will only marginally move the team forward.

 

Will Cora be with the team in 2025? I wouldn't count on it.

 

So bold moves are required but also done wisely. So far nothing has happened that suggests we are on the upswing.

 

Cora is not going anywhere.

 

We should see some major farm infusions in the next 2 seasons. That, alone, should improve the team.

 

How much we spend and who we spend it on will be the deciding factor.

[moonslav59]

I'm at the point, now, where every move we make should be with 2025 or 2025 and beyond in mind.

 

Think...

O'Neill, Pivetta, Jansen and Martin trades now or at the deadline.

 

Think...

Pay off Sale's contract and trade him, now, for the best possible return- preferably a young pitcher.

 

Don't sign any FA for more than 1 year, unless we think they will be just as good in 2025 and 2016 as they are now.

 

Punt.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora is not going anywhere.

 

We should see some major farm infusions in the next 2 seasons. That, alone, should improve the team.

 

How much we spend and who we spend it on will be the deciding factor.

 

But Cora was really pissed in 2023 about the s***** roster. He might be doubly pissed in 2024.

[moonslav59]

But Cora was really pissed in 2023 about the s***** roster. He might be doubly pissed in 2024.

 

He's going to move up in the Sox system. I doubt he gives that up.

 

He also sees the near MLB ready top prospects in the wings. I'd be drooling over that idea.

[Bellhorn04]

He's going to move up in the Sox system. I doubt he gives that up.

 

He also sees the near MLB ready top prospects in the wings. I'd be drooling over that idea.

 

He sure made it sound like he's a little fed up with all the future-gazing and lack of attention to the present, but who knows.

[moonslav59]

He sure made it sound like he's a little fed up with all the future-gazing and lack of attention to the present, but who knows.

 

He was obviously upset. Maybe part of it was that upper brass was telling him we were going to try to improve. Maybe he's as fed up with the lies as we are, and may want to bolt.

 

If he had the big hand some think he did (does) in selecting Breslow as the next CBO, then he may want to give a rebuild a chance.

[Randy Red Sox]

Phillies are working on an extension for Zack Wheeler after already resigning Aaron Nola while the Sox are signing aminor league catcher

[Old Red]

He's going to move up in the Sox system. I doubt he gives that up.

 

He also sees the near MLB ready top prospects in the wings. I'd be drooling over that idea.

 

Who knows what Cora was offered before, and that was before Breslow was hired, so that offer might still not be there, or be what it was.

What you would drool over, and what Cora would drool over are most likely two entirely different things. From the way Cora talked at the end of this past season when he said it doesn’t matter what you’re farm ranking is, but but what you do, or don’t do in October is what’s most important. In other words the here, and now is most important, and has been the last two years, so I don’t think Cora is drooling over what, or what might not happen down the road. You’d be drooling if things looked good in 2030.🤭🙈.