Bloom fired

[Elktonnick]

I think Henry wants to win but without the payroll nightmares. He thought Bloom could pull that off.

I guess we are all entitled to believe in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

[Elktonnick]

Eddie has been around since the Theo days.

 

Hey the longer the holdover the better. Henry does not want change. He wants to convince fans that he is, without any extra effort on his part. BTW how much are ticket prices going up next year?

[mvp 78]

Hey the longer the holdover the better. Henry does not want change. He wants to convince fans that he is, without any extra effort on his part. BTW how much are ticket prices going up next year?

 

I will agree that there hasn’t been enough change. Why is BOH there? What is the purpose of Sam in baseball meetings? I like Eddie, but there are too many JH pals hanging around. I said yesterday that 4-5 FO positions need to go so that the new GM/CBO can do their job.

[Elktonnick]

Eddie has been around since the Theo days.

 

I will agree that there hasn’t been enough change. Why is BOH there? What is the purpose of Sam in baseball meetings? I like Eddie, but there are too many JH pals hanging around. I said yesterday that 4-5 FO positions need to go so that the new GM/CBO can do their job.

I said much the same elsewhere. The number of holdovers makes recruiting an external candidate problematic.

[Bellhorn04]

I said much the same elsewhere. The number of holdovers makes recruiting an external candidate problematic.

 

It does, but an 8 figure contract will have its appeal for some candidates.

[Duran Is The Man]

It does, but an 8 figure contract will have its appeal for some candidates.

 

i volunteer to take one for the team. anybody have Henry's cell number?

[mvp 78]

It does, but an 8 figure contract will have its appeal for some candidates.

 

But Henry believes he’s getting Mike Hazen, Kim Ng or an experienced GM/CBO. That person will be less likely to be interested.

[Elktonnick]

Eddie has been around since the Theo days.

 

It does, but an 8 figure contract will have its appeal for some candidates.

You would think so but there appears to be few takers for the salary being actually offered.

I also surmise that many candidates would be weary of backstabbing from FO holdovers who were passed over. Bloom for all his faults was the victim of negative leaks from unnamed FO sources. He also complained about St Alex undercutting him. I think the Red Sox FO has become a snake pit of competing factions.

It may take more money and more authority than Henry is willing to give to get a really good external candidate.

[mvp 78]

You would think so but there appears to be few takers for the salary being actually offered.

I also surmise that many candidates would be weary of backstabbing from FO holdovers who were passed over. Bloom for all his faults was the victim of negative leaks from unnamed FO sources. He also complained about St Alex undercutting him. I think the Red Sox FO has become a snake pit of competing factions.

It may take more money and more authority than Henry is willing to give to get a really good external candidate.

 

I think you’re overstating the problem a bit.

 

There needs to a clean slate, but I don’t think there were knives out for Bloom until after he was out the door.

[Hugh2]

Another gullible soul swallowing Henry's bait. At least a half dozen outlets including SI , CBS Sports and Sean McAdam are reporting this. But hey none of these guys know anything. But I will put my trust in Sam Kennedy et al. They have never tried to bull s*** Red Sox fans before!

 

I’ve literally been a huge critic of Henry, more so than Bloom.

 

Just because there are people who don’t want the job does not mean no one wants the job. Only those people, and for all we know it’s the same small handful that SI, CBS, and Sean McAdam are all reporting about. It’s a juicy story, and it fits a nice narrative. I just don’t fully buy it.

 

It’s not terribly uncommon for there to be high turn over in lucrative positions in corporate America. These guys (and girls, I don’t want to get canceled here) aren’t making $80,000 a year. They’re making millions, often tens of millions of dollars.

 

Money talks, and people will follow the money. However, it’s also true these are still human beings; people who may have families they don’t want to uproot. This could easily be a reason many wouldn’t want to come to Boston. They don’t want leave where they are. These people have lives. But again, money talks, sometimes you don’t have kids, or the kids are younger and you take the opportunity to make more money.

 

It’s not that I don’t buy the story. I believe people don’t want to come to Boston. I just don’t believe the narrative that no one wants to come to Boston. I call bs on that, but then again I am a pretty gullible person so wtf do I know.

 

I just hope we don’t get the Bobby Valentines of GMs

[Old Red]

I think you’re overstating the problem a bit.

 

There needs to a clean slate, but I don’t think there were knives out for Bloom until after he was out the door.

 

I’m not so sure about that. I think Cora got quite a few jabs in.

[Hugh2]

Some people are going to want the job and some people are not going to want it.

 

People have lives and kids. It’s not all about Boston. Henry will have a big enough pool of candidates from outside AND within that there will be a few good choices in there.

 

Henry just needs to find the right guy and open up the spigot a little for him.

[notin]

It's always going to be a blame game. The GM is always the fall guy, so this actually gives him one out.

 

The GM is always the fall guy when he is actually fully in charge. They’re giving the new guy the opportunity to blame Cora of things don’t work out…

[moonslav59]

The GM is always the fall guy when he is actually fully in charge. They’re giving the new guy the opportunity to blame Cora of things don’t work out…

 

No. Bloom is obviously the fall guy, and he wasn't fully in charge.

[Bellhorn04]

The GM is always the fall guy when he is actually fully in charge. They’re giving the new guy the opportunity to blame Cora of things don’t work out…

 

It doesn't much matter who gets blamed. It matters who's still employed and who gets fired. Bloom got fired. His opinion no longer matters.

[Bellhorn04]

No. Bloom is obviously the fall guy, and he wasn't fully in charge.

 

No CBO is ever fully in charge of their situation. None of them have a "no-fire" clause in their contracts.

[notin]

It doesn't much matter who gets blamed. It matters who's still employed and who gets fired. Bloom got fired. His opinion no longer matters.

 

Not talking about Bloom.

 

 

I’m saying this creates an issue when the new guy (whoever he is) isn’t allowed to bring in his own manager…

[notin]

No CBO is ever fully in charge of their situation. None of them have a "no-fire" clause in their contracts.

 

No but next year, if the Sox are losing, who will be at fault? Will the CBO have the ability to fire Cora? OT does he just immediately get sacked while Cora has diplomatic immunity?

 

Or does this all change at Henry’s whim, in which case this is a much worse situation than I thought, with Henry becoming a modern day George Steinbrenner (but without all the winning)…

[Old Red]

No. Bloom is obviously the fall guy, and he wasn't fully in charge.

 

I agree that Bloom was not totally in charge, and was told to hire Cora back, but having said that Bloom was in charge more than enough to have left the Red Sox as a losing, last place in the Div team, and totally deserved to be fired. Call it the fall guy all you want, but Bloom stumbled so many times that he couldn’t get back up.

[Elktonnick]

Eddie has been around since the Theo days.

 

It does, but an 8 figure contract will have its appeal for some candidates.

 

The GM is always the fall guy when he is actually fully in charge. They’re giving the new guy the opportunity to blame Cora of things don’t work out…

 

I agree that Bloom was not totally in charge, and was told to hire Cora back, but having said that Bloom was in charge more than enough to have left the Red Sox as a losing, last place in the Div team, and totally deserved to be fired. Call it the fall guy all you want, but Bloom stumbled so many times that he couldn’t get back up.

 

While I totally agree, there is enough blame to go around for everyone. Henry fired Dombrowski because DD was too much the lone wolf. Henry wanted a process guy so he hired Bloom. Well the process did not work. More than Bloom and a couple of coaches need to be fired. The new HOBO needs to be given a free hand to fire anyone including Cora. Otherwise they are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[moonslav59]

No CBO is ever fully in charge of their situation. None of them have a "no-fire" clause in their contracts.

 

I get that, but to say the GM is never the fall guy because he's not fully in charge is just wrong. You look up "Fall guy professions" in the dictionary, and it lists GMs first.

 

There are various degrees of "being in charge," too. I think Theo was way more in charge, after the gorilla suit event than anyone afterwards. I think DD was given more control until about after the 2018 deadline.

 

IMO, since JH bought the team, no GM had...

 

1. Such restricted winter spending budget, especially before 2020, but before 2021 and 2022 were pretty restrictive, too. (The pre-2023 budget was large, but there was a lot of good players and big contracts needing to be replaced in kind- at inflationary prices.) Look at the biggest FA and extension Sox contracts over the last 20 years, adjust for inflation and see where the Story and Yoshida signings fit in. Bloom never got to see a day of the Devers contract. Ben was about the same with Pablo and HRam. Apples to oranges.

2. Some GM did seem to have restrictions on trading top prospects for part of their tenure. Ben seemed to have that for mush of his tenure. Bloom had it for his whole term as GM. I know some think that was Ben's and Bloom's choices, but I think it was an organizational decision. The sheer number of decently ranked prospects DD traded was more than Bloom + Ben + the last few years of the Theo regime. It is nothing short of apples to oranges, when comparing the parameters placed on certain Sox GMs over the last 20 years.

3. The "don't sign a pitcher over 30 to a long term deal" was not something every GM was allowed to do. Only 1.

4. Huge multi top prospect deals for a stud or two only happened under two GMs, and they happened more than once. Zero for Ben and Bloom.

 

Apples to oranges.

 

Call me a whiner. Call me an apologist, if you must, but the circumstances our 4 GMs were handed and demanded were light years apart- as were the results, granted, yet not unexpected by some.

[Randy Red Sox]

I will agree that there hasn’t been enough change. Why is BOH there? What is the purpose of Sam in baseball meetings? I like Eddie, but there are too many JH pals hanging around. I said yesterday that 4-5 FO positions need to go so that the new GM/CBO can do their job.

 

that is NOT going to happen as reports are that many potential candidates have no interest in the job. This is on John Henry and it is going to be hard to un-do.

[Bellhorn04]

Not talking about Bloom.

 

I’m saying this creates an issue when the new guy (whoever he is) isn’t allowed to bring in his own manager…

 

Well, he's just going to have to deal with it. Dombrowski didn't replace Farrell until Year 3. Bloom re-hired Cora. It's not unprecedented to be working with the same manager as the previous guy.

[Old Red]

I get that, but to say the GM is never the fall guy because he's not fully in charge is just wrong. You look up "Fall guy professions" in the dictionary, and it lists GMs first.

 

There are various degrees of "being in charge," too. I think Theo was way more in charge, after the gorilla suit event than anyone afterwards. I think DD was given more control until about after the 2018 deadline.

 

IMO, since JH bought the team, no GM had...

 

1. Such restricted winter spending budget, especially before 2020, but before 2021 and 2022 were pretty restrictive, too. (The pre-2023 budget was large, but there was a lot of good players and big contracts needing to be replaced in kind- at inflationary prices.) Look at the biggest FA and extension Sox contracts over the last 20 years, adjust for inflation and see where the Story and Yoshida signings fit in. Bloom never got to see a day of the Devers contract. Ben was about the same with Pablo and HRam. Apples to oranges.

2. Some GM did seem to have restrictions on trading top prospects for part of their tenure. Ben seemed to have that for mush of his tenure. Bloom had it for his whole term as GM. I know some think that was Ben's and Bloom's choices, but I think it was an organizational decision. The sheer number of decently ranked prospects DD traded was more than Bloom + Ben + the last few years of the Theo regime. It is nothing short of apples to oranges, when comparing the parameters placed on certain Sox GMs over the last 20 years.

3. The "don't sign a pitcher over 30 to a long term deal" was not something every GM was allowed to do. Only 1.

4. Huge multi top prospect deals for a stud or two only happened under two GMs, and they happened more than once. Zero for Ben and Bloom.

 

Apples to oranges.

 

Call me a whiner. Call me an apologist, if you must, but the circumstances our 4 GMs were handed and demanded were light years apart- as were the results, granted, yet not unexpected by some.

 

It goes without saying you’re a whiner, and an apologist when it comes to Bloom, but being as big as a Bloom guy as there is its understandable.

[Old Red]

Well, he's just going to have to deal with it. Dombrowski didn't replace Farrell until Year 3. Bloom re-hired Cora. It's not unprecedented to be working with the same manager as the previous guy.

But was it Bloom’s choice to re-hire Cora, or was it JH?

[Bellhorn04]

I get that, but to say the GM is never the fall guy because he's not fully in charge is just wrong. You look up "Fall guy professions" in the dictionary, and it lists GMs first.

 

There are various degrees of "being in charge," too. I think Theo was way more in charge, after the gorilla suit event than anyone afterwards. I think DD was given more control until about after the 2018 deadline.

 

IMO, since JH bought the team, no GM had...

 

1. Such restricted winter spending budget, especially before 2020, but before 2021 and 2022 were pretty restrictive, too. (The pre-2023 budget was large, but there was a lot of good players and big contracts needing to be replaced in kind- at inflationary prices.) Look at the biggest FA and extension Sox contracts over the last 20 years, adjust for inflation and see where the Story and Yoshida signings fit in. Bloom never got to see a day of the Devers contract. Ben was about the same with Pablo and HRam. Apples to oranges.

2. Some GM did seem to have restrictions on trading top prospects for part of their tenure. Ben seemed to have that for mush of his tenure. Bloom had it for his whole term as GM. I know some think that was Ben's and Bloom's choices, but I think it was an organizational decision. The sheer number of decently ranked prospects DD traded was more than Bloom + Ben + the last few years of the Theo regime. It is nothing short of apples to oranges, when comparing the parameters placed on certain Sox GMs over the last 20 years.

3. The "don't sign a pitcher over 30 to a long term deal" was not something every GM was allowed to do. Only 1.

4. Huge multi top prospect deals for a stud or two only happened under two GMs, and they happened more than once. Zero for Ben and Bloom.

 

Apples to oranges.

 

Call me a whiner. Call me an apologist, if you must, but the circumstances our 4 GMs were handed and demanded were light years apart- as were the results, granted, yet not unexpected by some.

 

I'm not calling anyone whiners or apologists.

 

Bloom was handed a difficult assignment, no question.

 

But he made some big mistakes and apparently was very indecisive. If he had done better he'd probably still have the job.

[Bellhorn04]

But was it Bloom’s choice to re-hire Cora, or was it JH?

 

I think it was Bloom's. Whatever we think of Bloom, I do think he had some integrity.

[moonslav59]

I agree that Bloom was not totally in charge, and was told to hire Cora back, but having said that Bloom was in charge more than enough to have left the Red Sox as a losing, last place in the Div team, and totally deserved to be fired. Call it the fall guy all you want, but Bloom stumbled so many times that he couldn’t get back up.

 

I have never disagreed with this. He deserved to be fired. He bumbled his biggest deals, too many times and failed to find the "gems in the rough" like the Rays seem to do.

 

He was the fall guy for many reasons, including his own wrong-doings.

 

He did not slash then set the budget.

 

I do not think it was his choice to not trade any top prospects, when it might have saved his job had he cleaned the farm of them,

[moonslav59]

No but next year, if the Sox are losing, who will be at fault? Will the CBO have the ability to fire Cora? OT does he just immediately get sacked while Cora has diplomatic immunity?

 

Or does this all change at Henry’s whim, in which case this is a much worse situation than I thought, with Henry becoming a modern day George Steinbrenner (but without all the winning)…

 

If we lose, some will certainly blame Cora, but the GM will bear the brunt, again and again.

 

We are seeing more talk about JH, Kennedy & Co, but the players the next GM brings in will be why we win or lose.

 

No, if the budget is slashed, then it might be different, although it wasn't for Bloom. Maybe it will be different,

next time.

[Bellhorn04]

I have never disagreed with this. He deserved to be fired. He bumbled his biggest deals, too many times and failed to find the "gems in the rough" like the Rays seem to do.

 

He was the fall guy for many reasons, including his own wrong-doings.

 

He did not slash then set the budget.

 

I do not think it was his choice to not trade any top prospects, when it might have saved his job had he cleaned the farm of them,

 

Bloom obviously had a much different mission than DD did. There was no way Bloom was trading a bunch of top prospects. It's not what he was hired to do, and I'm sure it's not what he wanted to do.