Bloom fired

[Hugh2]

I really don't get why such a big deal has been made of not trading JD at the 2022 deadline. So we wouldn't have paid tax that year. Big deal. How would that benefit 2023 or 2024? Do we think Henry would have spent a pile more? What's the theory there?

 

There were reportedly legit offers out there for JD.

 

It's not just about the tax.

 

You didn't get those prospects you would have for JD. Who knows what that could have meant? Traded as part of a package for an ACE? or perhaps become valuable members of a Sox team.

 

Staying about the tax line gave you two extra 4th round picks, instead of 2 extra 2nd round picks. That million-dollar in extra bonus money could have been the difference between drafting a Roman Anthony instead of a Chase Meridoth.

 

Also, if they reset last year conceivably they may (or may not) have spent more this year. If they reset and were willing to go over maybe they spend the few extra million and Get Zach Efflin, or keep Eovaldi, or spend big on an outfielder.

 

The last statement we just don't know but the first two are absolute real certainties.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That .180 SS, is a great fielder. The shaky defender is in LA right now.

 

Did you try shaking hands with Raffy or Tris Pitch-Speaker this summer?

[Old Red]

Fans throw around fire sale talk if the team is on pace to win 88 games…

 

Being on a pace like this year with a pitching staff in tatters, and a brutal ending of a schedule was not worth the pace.

[notin]

That .180 SS, is a great fielder. The shaky defender is in LA right now.

 

It would be nice for once if that .180-hitting SS would play in a Spring Training game or two and shake the rust off before the season began…

[Hugh2]

It wasn’t a big deal, and it wouldn’t have made any difference for this year, or next. Fire sale talk was being discussed on here, before the 2022 season even started.

 

See my point above, you can't definitively say that.

[notin]

Being on a pace like this year with a pitching staff in tatters, and a brutal ending of a schedule was not worth the pace.

 

The Sox had played most of those teams on that “brutal schedule” before and had more than handled themselves. That part should not have been the problem.

 

 

They did need to add to that pitching staff. Relying on pitchers who have already missed time once this year due to injury was a flawed idea from step one…

[moonslav59]

That .180 SS, is a great fielder. The shaky defender is in LA right now.

 

If Story can just hit like his road OPS while with COL (.725) and give us near GG defense at SS, next year, our SS position will have improved by leaps and bounds over 2023.

 

As of now, our SS position has hit .629 (no help from Story, here) and the defense has been as bad at SS as I have ever seen in over 50 years of watching Sox SS play D, before Story's return.

[Old Red]

There were reportedly legit offers out there for JD.

 

It's not just about the tax.

 

You didn't get those prospects you would have for JD. Who knows what that could have meant? Traded as part of a package for an ACE? or perhaps become valuable members of a Sox team.

 

Staying about the tax line gave you two extra 4th round picks, instead of 2 extra 2nd round picks. That million-dollar in extra bonus money could have been the difference between drafting a Roman Anthony instead of a Chase Meridoth.

 

Also, if they reset last year conceivably they may (or may not) have spent more this year. If they reset and were willing to go over maybe they spend the few extra million and Get Zach Efflin, or keep Eovaldi, or spend big on an outfielder.

 

The last statement we just don't know but the first two are absolute real certainties.

I did hear from a friend of mine from Philly that DD was asking about JD, but Bloom was asking way to much for him.

[Hugh2]

As long as they don’t go overboard. We don’t want to find out Roman Anthony is an incredible player and then have to deal him away because we dropped a few too many Benjamins for far too long on Aaron Nola and Jack Flaherty…

 

By the time Anthony may need to be extended 7 years will have passed. The luxury tax limit will be higher than 240 million by then and even if you paid two starting pitchers next year that plus Devers isn't 1/3 of that.

[moonslav59]

The Sox had played most of those teams on that “brutal schedule” before and had more than handled themselves. That part should not have been the problem.

 

 

They did need to add to that pitching staff. Relying on pitchers who have already missed time once this year due to injury was a flawed idea from step one…

 

There was a point, somewhere somewhat deep into the season, where the Sox had played the toughest schedule to date.

[Hugh2]

I did hear from a friend of mine from Philly that DD was asking about JD, but Bloom was asking way to much for him.

 

Those are the reports that are out there.

[Old Red]

See my point above, you can't definitively say that.

 

No I can’t, but you definitely can’t say Bloom would have done something constructive either.

[Old Red]

The Sox had played most of those teams on that “brutal schedule” before and had more than handled themselves. That part should not have been the problem.

 

 

They did need to add to that pitching staff. Relying on pitchers who have already missed time once this year due to injury was a flawed idea from step one…

 

Because they handled the likes of the Yankees, and Jays before didn’t mean they would do that again, and they didn’t. The pitching staff for what it was was on fumes, or not that good. The Red Sox are what their record says they are. That’s why you play 162.

[Bellhorn04]

There were reportedly legit offers out there for JD.

 

It's not just about the tax.

 

You didn't get those prospects you would have for JD. Who knows what that could have meant? Traded as part of a package for an ACE? or perhaps become valuable members of a Sox team.

 

Of course we don't know what the offers were. Hard to see a team taking on $7 mill of salary for 2 months of JD and giving up meaningful prospects too.

[moonslav59]

Of course we don't know what the offers were. Hard to see a team taking on $7 mill of salary for 2 months of JD and giving up meaningful prospects too.

 

Would you trade JD straight up for the improvement of our two comp draft picks by 2 rounds and an extra $1M in bonus money?

 

To me, the player return was near meaningless, if not totally meaningless.

[sk7326]

If Story can just hit like his road OPS while with COL (.725) and give us near GG defense at SS, next year, our SS position will have improved by leaps and bounds over 2023.

 

As of now, our SS position has hit .629 (no help from Story, here) and the defense has been as bad at SS as I have ever seen in over 50 years of watching Sox SS play D, before Story's return.

 

Right. Now, Story's contract looks bad. But if you put the normal sticker shock aside at the price - there is no reason that Story can't be a 2-3 win player at least for this team over the next 2 years of his deal. It's not a great value for the money - but it's a solid starting SS, which is way better than what the team put out this season. I mean, Story has managed to be a replacement level player THIS year despite largely not being an improvement at the plate over just standing there and not taking the bat off his shoulders.

[Bellhorn04]

Would you trade JD straight up for the improvement of our two comp draft picks by 2 rounds and an extra $1M in bonus money?

 

To me, the player return was near meaningless, if not totally meaningless.

 

In hindsight, of course I would.

 

This just leads to a rehash of whether they should have had an all-out fire sale. If you're salary-dumping your third-best hitter why stop there.

[Hugh2]

Of course we don't know what the offers were. Hard to see a team taking on $7 mill of salary for 2 months of JD and giving up meaningful prospects too.

 

A.) People were overpaying at last years deadline, and if the team was a team over the luxury tax then they probably don't care about eating the money as much. A team such as LA, weren't they the ones in on him?

 

Also, if they're selling JD, they sell Nate too and you definitely get under.

[moonslav59]

In hindsight, of course I would.

 

This just leads to a rehash of whether they should have had an all-out fire sale. If you're salary-dumping your third-best hitter why stop there.

 

I get that point, but I'm speaking to only the point about the return on JD "not being enough."

 

To me, the draft improvement was worth it alone, so who cares what players were offered?

 

Yes, I'd have traded Nate, Wacha, Hill, Strahm, and then after all that, I'd have asked Bogey, if he still wanted to finish the season in Boston on a hapless team.

 

One could also ask, why stop at Vaz?

[moonslav59]

Right. Now, Story's contract looks bad. But if you put the normal sticker shock aside at the price - there is no reason that Story can't be a 2-3 win player at least for this team over the next 2 years of his deal. It's not a great value for the money - but it's a solid starting SS, which is way better than what the team put out this season. I mean, Story has managed to be a replacement level player THIS year despite largely not being an improvement at the plate over just standing there and not taking the bat off his shoulders.

 

I'm hoping for more, but even .700 and GG D at SS would be a big addition to the team.

 

I'm thinking our D can also get better by DH'ing Yoshi more, and the more Rafaela plays, the better our D can be. I don't see a need to try and improve it by signing D first players.

 

Spend on pitching and let the improved D greatly improve our run prevention area.

 

The hitting may need a big RH'd bat, and getting one that is a plus on D would be nice, but not essential. Bringing back Duvall and nothing else on the everyday player side does it for me.

[Old Red]

Okay, maybe not "giving up," (poor choice of words by me,) but certainly not helping improve the chances on the here and now. The trade was for prospects and the "future," or "suspects as you like to call them.

 

Like I said Sale pretty much hasn’t helped the here, and now since the 2018 season, so even if I would have had to pay a little bit he’d been gone at pretty much the first offer. I was against the extension that DD gave him when it happened.

[notin]

Those are the reports that are out there.

 

And the whole “ asking for too much” is subjective. I mean what if DD tried to dump Scott Kingery for JD…

[Old Red]

And the whole “ asking for too much” is subjective. I mean what if DD tried to dump Scott Kingery for JD…

 

Nah, we all know DD dumps prospects, and cleans out the farm.

[Bellhorn04]

One could also ask, why stop at Vaz?

 

That one's easy, Bloom got prospects for Vaz and traded Diekman for McGuire.

[Bellhorn04]

A.) People were overpaying at last years deadline, and if the team was a team over the luxury tax then they probably don't care about eating the money as much. A team such as LA, weren't they the ones in on him?

 

Also, if they're selling JD, they sell Nate too and you definitely get under.

 

If you're unloading JD and Nate you just go full fire sale.

 

They decided not to fire sale, it's as simple as that.

[Hugh2]

If you're unloading JD and Nate you just go full fire sale.

 

They decided not to fire sale, it's as simple as that.

 

Ok, but they sold their starting catcher and didn’t add pitching, which they needed. They “hugged the line”

 

If they weren’t going to get under why not buy? They could have picked up a rental without mortgaging the farm.

 

I ultimately think his small deadline balls is what did him in. This years deadline was the nail. If I could be a fly on the wall I’m Henry’s life I’d be willing to bet this August 1st was when the wheels really started spinning in his head about letting Bloom go sooner than later.

 

Probably took them a month to prep the spin machine

[moonslav59]

Ok, but they sold their starting catcher and didn’t add pitching, which they needed. They “hugged the line”

 

If they weren’t going to get under why not buy? They could have picked up a rental without mortgaging the farm.

 

I ultimately think his small deadline balls is what did him in. This years deadline was the nail. If I could be a fly on the wall I’m Henry’s life I’d be willing to bet this August 1st was when the wheels really started spinning in his head about letting Bloom go sooner than later.

 

Probably took them a month to prep the spin machine

 

Agreed.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There were a few of us the past deadline that thought the Sox could trade Paxton and still have just as much chance (or just as much no-chance, as it were) at making the playoffs.

 

Not trading Paxton was right up there as one of the worst Bloom non-moves. He could've fetched maybe the best prospect Bloom could acquire in a trade in his four years -- just look at what other clubs gave up for starting pitchers who did not win AL Pitcher of the Month in June, like Paxton did.

 

But alas, Paxton stayed, immediately burned out, and eventually went back on the IL with another injury -- like we all knew he would. Too late now.

[notin]

Because they handled the likes of the Yankees, and Jays before didn’t mean they would do that again, and they didn’t. The pitching staff for what it was was on fumes, or not that good. The Red Sox are what their record says they are. That’s why you play 162.

 

Their record on August 1 was 57-50 (a pace for 86 wins). They were 2 games out. They needed to add pitching at the deadline, not sell. And certainly not stand still. One genius repeatedly suggested (re: predicted) Paul Blackburn as a target. Blackburn has a 3.24 ERA across 8 starts since the deadline…

[notin]

Nah, we all know DD dumps prospects, and cleans out the farm.

 

That farm is already pretty clean…