Bloom fired

[Old Red]

Baseball America ranked Boston’s minor league system No. 30 (dead last) in 2019, before Bloom was hired. BA ranked the Red Sox No. 5 in its 2023 midseason organizational rankings and wrote, “The Red Sox are stocked with up-the-middle talent, as all of their top 10 positional prospects play in the middle infield, center field or catcher.

 

This current cache of prospect depth is likely Chaim Bloom’s greatest achievement during his time in Boston.Twenty-one of the prospects on Baseball America’s Red Sox Top 30 list are players Bloom either drafted, signed or acquired via trade. The other nine are holdovers from Dave Dombrowski’s tenure.

 

Bloom’s prospects: Marcelo Mayer (1), Roman Anthony (2), Miguel Bleis (3), Kyle Teel (4), Nick Yorke (5), Shane Drohan (9), Nathan Hickey (10), Yoeilin Cespedes (12), Nazzan Zanetello (13), Chase Meidroth (14), Blaze Jordan (15), Enmanuel Valdez (17), Antonio Anderson (18), Mikey Romero (19), David Hamilton (22), Johanfran Garcia (23), Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz (24), Brooks Brannon (25), Wilyer Abreu (26), Yordanny Monegro (29), Hunter Dobbins (30).

 

Dombrowski’s prospects: Ceddanne Rafaela (6), Luis Perales (7), Wikelman Gonzalez (8), Brainer Bonaci (11), Eddinson Paulino (16), Brandon Walter (20), Chris Murphy (21), Allan Castro (27), Angel Bastardo (28).

 

I really did think he'd get one more year......

There are many different rankings for the minor leagues. You cited one that ranked them 5th, but pipeline ranks them 16th, and another I saw had them ranked 14th, so pick, and choose however you like. Like I’ve said many times just because the farm system is better ranked doesn’t mean the big league club will be better than what they had with Mookie, Raffy, and Bogey just to name 3. Also how many of the top ranked prospects are pitchers?

Edited September 15, 2023 by Old Red

[cp176]

Baseball America ranked Boston’s minor league system No. 30 (dead last) in 2019, before Bloom was hired. BA ranked the Red Sox No. 5 in its 2023 midseason organizational rankings and wrote, “The Red Sox are stocked with up-the-middle talent, as all of their top 10 positional prospects play in the middle infield, center field or catcher.

 

This current cache of prospect depth is likely Chaim Bloom’s greatest achievement during his time in Boston.Twenty-one of the prospects on Baseball America’s Red Sox Top 30 list are players Bloom either drafted, signed or acquired via trade. The other nine are holdovers from Dave Dombrowski’s tenure.

 

Bloom’s prospects: Marcelo Mayer (1), Roman Anthony (2), Miguel Bleis (3), Kyle Teel (4), Nick Yorke (5), Shane Drohan (9), Nathan Hickey (10), Yoeilin Cespedes (12), Nazzan Zanetello (13), Chase Meidroth (14), Blaze Jordan (15), Enmanuel Valdez (17), Antonio Anderson (18), Mikey Romero (19), David Hamilton (22), Johanfran Garcia (23), Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz (24), Brooks Brannon (25), Wilyer Abreu (26), Yordanny Monegro (29), Hunter Dobbins (30).

 

Dombrowski’s prospects: Ceddanne Rafaela (6), Luis Perales (7), Wikelman Gonzalez (8), Brainer Bonaci (11), Eddinson Paulino (16), Brandon Walter (20), Chris Murphy (21), Allan Castro (27), Angel Bastardo (28).

 

I really did think he'd get one more year......

 

He did stockpile some good looking prospects. His reluctance to use them to improve the team we watch day in day out was a big downfall. As good as some of these look potentially, there will not be room for them all. Not all trades are going to work but the ones you don't make, likely will never amount to anything.

[jad]

He did stockpile some good looking prospects. His reluctance to use them to improve the team we watch day in day out was a big downfall. As good as some of these look potentially, there will not be room for them all. Not all trades are going to work but the ones you don't make, likely will never amount to anything.

 

Yeah, not trading Mookie would have really sucked.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, not trading Mookie would have really sucked.

 

You never know what we would have gotten with that comp pick, right?

[Nick]

You never know what we would have gotten with that comp pick, right?

 

Well Bloom has repeatedly said that Sox did not have a team around Betts when he was traded.

 

Our pitching staff on paper was very good heading into 2019 season. The the bottom fell out. Not sure I would blame that season on Bloom.

 

It takes two to tangle and my perception will ALWAYS be that Betts wanted a new partner. He got a good one, I might add.

[moonslav59]

He did stockpile some good looking prospects. His reluctance to use them to improve the team we watch day in day out was a big downfall. As good as some of these look potentially, there will not be room for them all. Not all trades are going to work but the ones you don't make, likely will never amount to anything.

 

He did make quite a few trades, and many look good or are still incomplete, but when it comes to major trades, after Mookie, the next biggest one was probably Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber, Beni for Wink & Gambrell (and more) or Workman & Hembree for Pivetta. Not really a king's ransom, there.

 

I'm not sure that upper management might have directed him to hold most prospects until 3, 4 or 5 years down the road, but they will never admit that, if true.

 

Bloom certainly failed on the W-L level for the big club, and that's what the vast majority of fans care about.

 

IMO, he built up the 40 man foundation, pretty well for the next guy.

 

The farm looks much better, but that is all speculation and projection.

 

He whiffed on PR and assembling a ML roster that could compete in 2 of the 3 years that counted, to me.

 

Foundation: B or B+

Farm: B+ or B

ML Roster: D or C- (only 2021 saves him from a D- or F)

Budget: Incomplete, but Story and Yoshi might force a current grade or C-

 

Overall: C-, but I seem to count the foundation & Farm projections more than most.

Edited September 15, 2023 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Well Bloom has repeatedly said that Sox did not have a team around Betts when he was traded.

 

Our pitching staff on paper was very good heading into 2019 season. The the bottom fell out. Not sure I would blame that season on Bloom.

 

It takes two to tangle and my perception will ALWAYS be that Betts wanted a new partner. He got a good one, I might add.

 

If Bloom was tasked to build a team with Betts and the same budgets he had without him, we'd have seen 8 Brasiers and Orts in the pen. Chavis at 1B, Bogey traded, and nobody but Nate in the rotation. If he could not dump Price, we'd likely have traded JD.

 

It's easy to just say, "had we kept Betts and spent more...," but why would keeping Betts have made JH want to spend more than he ended up spending?

 

I suppose he might have.

[Nick]

* Bloom was ripped for not re-signing Xander Bogaerts last winter and there were times, especially before the 2022 season, that the sides likely could have come to terms on a reasonable deal. But I’d bet the decision to let Bogaerts walk will ultimately be one of Bloom’s best calls during his tenure. Bogaerts was the consummate professional and did just about everything right in a Red Sox uniform, both on and off the field. But the numbers this year (.764 OPS) and his imminent move off shortstop tell a major part of the story.

 

ESPN’s Jeff Passan noted on a radio appearance Thursday that many teams in baseball view Bogaerts’ 11-year-, $280 million deal with the Padres as underwater already. I’ll do one better: within minutes of news of Bogaerts’ agreement going public, a Red Sox-connected person texted that it was “the worst contract in baseball.” Kudos to Bloom for not letting emotion take over on tha tone.

 

A poster on this board is always defending Xander. Pointing out his fWar or some number. The bottom line is .764 OPS on a 11 year, $280M deal is not good in my book. I don't care what positives anyone points out. Bad contract. Only 10 years to go.

[moonslav59]

* Bloom was ripped for not re-signing Xander Bogaerts last winter and there were times, especially before the 2022 season, that the sides likely could have come to terms on a reasonable deal. But I’d bet the decision to let Bogaerts walk will ultimately be one of Bloom’s best calls during his tenure. Bogaerts was the consummate professional and did just about everything right in a Red Sox uniform, both on and off the field. But the numbers this year (.764 OPS) and his imminent move off shortstop tell a major part of the story.

 

ESPN’s Jeff Passan noted on a radio appearance Thursday that many teams in baseball view Bogaerts’ 11-year-, $280 million deal with the Padres as underwater already. I’ll do one better: within minutes of news of Bogaerts’ agreement going public, a Red Sox-connected person texted that it was “the worst contract in baseball.” Kudos to Bloom for not letting emotion take over on tha tone.

 

A poster on this board is always defending Xander. Pointing out his fWar or some number. The bottom line is .764 OPS on a 11 year, $280M deal is not good in my book. I don't care what positives anyone points out. Bad contract. Only 10 years to go.

 

I'm not convinced Bogey would have taken $160M/6, like some here suggested he might have done. I'm not sure he'd have taken $200M/6 or 7. If he would have, then a debate would be warranted, but I doubt we'll ever know, because no offer like that was made, to my knowledge.

 

The fact is we never offered what he'd take at any point on the timeline. I'm pretty sure both sides had an idea what the other side wanted, and it seems pretty obvious, to me, they never got close enough to even make serious offers, I guess until the very end, when Bloom & Co. were blown away by the Padres' offer.

 

There may come a day, where we look back and wish we'd found a way to keep him at $200M/8 or less, but we may also look back and say even $160M/6 would have been an overpay. (I doubt anyone will ever say $160M/6 would have been a bust.)

 

The comment on Bogey's fWAR being as high as it was around 2018 is valid, but my point was that his production has dropped for 3 years, now, but his D has improved by enough to bring up his overall value, according to fWAR to about the same. That's still not near his current contract value, but close enough to $160M to $200M to still wish we'd have gotten him for that.

[notin]

So now…

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nl-exec-believes-shohei-185715574.html

[moonslav59]

 

A poster on this board is always defending Xander. Pointing out his fWar or some number. The bottom line is .764 OPS on a 11 year, $280M deal is not good in my book. I don't care what positives anyone points out. Bad contract. Only 10 years to go.

 

For those who cling to traditional stats, these are frightening:

 

Per 162 games:

 

2018-2019:

.300 31 123 (.914 OPS)

 

Even 2018-2020:

.300 31 116 (.907 OPS)

 

But, YIKES!!!!

2021-2023:

.291 21 75 (.820 OPS)

 

Now, he enters the post 30 years.

 

I'm big on defense at SS, so I should mention that his improved defense is significant and does add value.

 

DRS

-29 from 2017-2019 (+0.4 UZR/150)

-12 from 2021-2023 (+1.8)

 

It is a bit worrisome, when the SS ranked 27th out of 27 SSs in DRS since 2017 is seeing his offense drop so steeply from ages 28-30. (He is ranked 15th out of 27 in UZR/150 at +0.6 from 2014 to today.)

[moonslav59]

So now…

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nl-exec-believes-shohei-185715574.html

 

LOL. Gammons. LMAO!

[mvp 78]

So now…

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nl-exec-believes-shohei-185715574.html

 

Can’t pitch. Too expensive.

[notin]

Can’t pitch. Too expensive.

 

Agreed…

[MADSTORK]

How bout one of you “pink hats” post up the Berrios Pitching line tonight!

 

Bye bye Orlando! I hear the Yanks are calling…

 

If Henry has big b@lls he’ll dump Kennedy next and hold another meeting with TE

Thank you John Tom Alex

[notin]

Yeah, not trading Mookie would have really sucked.

 

So you think the draft pick would have been better?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I’m sure I won’t get credit for this, and that is 100% fair because who the hell remembers specific points other posters have made eons ago? Or at least the vast majority of them.

 

But this firing could be in line with my theme all along. Bloom was brought in to build the team up into a sustainable winner. Rebuild the farm and the younger part of the organization. I had theorized that while he may be the guy for that job, he may lack the fortitude or ability to take them over that hump and when the Sox feel they’re in a better position to build a better team now they will switch directions and move on from Bloom.

 

It was the same thing with Charington to Dave. Ben lacked that ability a young team and a strong farm and go for it by bringing in pieces to build a winner.

 

Bloom kept the right guys (minus maybe Betts) and built up the farm. Now we are seeing those guys reach the majors with the next crop right there behind them.

 

Maybe others aren’t as optimistic but I truly feel this club is only a few pieces, albeit big pieces away from being a very good team.

 

Bloom will deserve partial credit if the Sox spring back into a first place team next year. But he obviously lacks the balls to go out and make the big time moves that the Sox need right now.

 

Perhaps this my own self delusion, perhaps I’m completely wrong. But I take his firing as a sign that Henry is ready to take this team to another level. He wants a guy in that position who is going to come in and add a big time pitcher, maybe even a big RHH bat. Bloom wasn’t that guy. I hope his firing means Henry is ready to go in that direction and make a big splash.

 

This team is just a few pieces away from adding around Bello/Whitlock/Houck/Casas/Wong/Duran/Mayer to be a very good team.

 

I defended Bloom more than the average man, but I’d be the first to admit he came without fault and made some sizable blunders. I hope my prediction is correct, in that Henry has finally regrown his balls and he wants to invest in this team and restore them to greatness.

 

We shall see.

 

Regardless, a change was needed. Whether you hated, disliked, liked, or were neutral on Bloom it was apparent some kind of change was needed. A change of direction, and for better or worse this change signifies a HOPE that this organization is about to get better.

 

Almost my exact thoughts.

 

In most other sports organizations you hire a GM and just let him cook until he proves himself totally incompetent or starts trying to f*** the interns. The Red Sox on the other hand choose their GM based on the direction they want to go in the coming 3 or so years (get under the luxury tax, build the farm while treading water in the majors, go for it) and his strategy or specialty must align with that. Once that directive is out of date, Henry would rather prematurely-slash-proactively just get rid of him and replace him with someone who fits the updated strategy, rather than just keep the other guy on and see if he'll adjust. Like some Microsoft/big tech project where different contractors are brought in/let go depending on what phase of development they're on.

 

Then again I'm pretty out of touch with the team nowadays beyond "they're doing good, they're doing bad, somebody got traded" level knowledge, so I could just be bullshitting.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Amidst the fall-out of Bloom's firing, stories continue to leak about the moves he didn't make, specifically at the past two trade deadlines.

 

Alex Speier is a reputable source, and he reports today that Bloom refused offers to trade Sale, and Jansen, and Paxton, among others... but the one that should hurt the most here: Turner to the Marlins for 25-year old starting pitcher Edward Cabrera -- the exact kind of deal the Red Sox need to expedite their rebuild.

 

The next CBO should make at least three trades this winter for under-30 starting pitchers, and no one in the system should be untouchable (beyond our own young pitchers) except Teel, and a few legitimate power threats like Casas and Anthony.

 

Personally, trading prospects (most never become MLB stars) just looks more logical to a budget-conscious franchise than blowing big bucks in an attempt to generate new fan buzz on the next wave of free agent pitchers who all bring risks: Snell, Nola (inconsistency), Gray (age), Giolito, Flaherty, Lorenzen (mediocrity).

 

The prize is obviously Yamamoto, but who thinks Henry is prepared to outbid any team from New York or California -- or Texas -- at this point?

[Bellhorn04]

A poster on this board is always defending Xander. Pointing out his fWar or some number. The bottom line is .764 OPS on a 11 year, $280M deal is not good in my book. I don't care what positives anyone points out. Bad contract. Only 10 years to go.

 

I am that poster, of course. Let me try to clarify my position once and for all.

 

Any suggestions I have made or will make that the Red Sox should have retained Bogaerts are based on the premise that they could have signed him for 6-7 years for 160-180 million, and not signed Story instead. No need for moon to point out again that we don't know if Bogaerts would have signed for that. I stipulate that he's right.

 

The contract Bogaerts got from the Padres was insane and I've never said I wanted the Red Sox to do that contract.

 

Yes, I do quote fWAR because it's an objective source of total player value.

 

As for Old School Numbers, Bogaerts's 2023 OPS of .767 does seem to be better than Story's 2023 OPS of .521. (Had to get a little snark in here.)

[Bellhorn04]

Amidst the fall-out of Bloom's firing, stories continue to leak about the moves he didn't make, specifically at the past two trade deadlines.

 

Alex Speier is a reputable source, and he reports today that Bloom refused offers to trade Sale, and Jansen, and Paxton, among others... but the one that should hurt the most here: Turner to the Marlins for 25-year old starting pitcher Edward Cabrera -- the exact kind of deal the Red Sox need to expedite their rebuild.

 

Here's what's a little ironic, though. These non-moves that Bloom is now being ripped for were future-oriented moves rather than compete now moves.

 

If the Sox front office is trying to tell us they think Bloom was paying too much attention to the present by not making these moves, that would indicate they are approximately the most two-faced f***ers on the planet.

[Old Red]

Here's what's a little ironic, though. These non-moves that Bloom is now being ripped for were future-oriented moves rather than compete now moves.

 

If the Sox front office is trying to tell us they think Bloom was paying too much attention to the present by not making these moves, that would indicate they are approximately the most two-faced f***ers on the planet.

 

They are pickers, grinners, and spinners. Picking your pocket on ticket prices, and grinning about it, and spinning how the goal is to play for championships, and retaining players like Bogey is a high priority with a slap in the face lowball offer.

[Bellhorn04]

They are pickers, grinners, and spinners. Picking your pocket on ticket prices, and grinning about it, and spinning how the goal is to play for championships, and retaining players like Bogey is a high priority with a slap in the face lowball offer.

 

Exactly.

[Elktonnick]

We are largely seeing the same post Bloom pr campaign that we saw with previous Henry firings, the disparaging of the departed. Notice that the bad mouthing is always done by surrogates who never directly quote FO sources.

 

Once again, I do not think John Henry had any specific reason for firing Bloom. Nor do I think Bloom could have done anything to save his job. In Henry's mind it was simply time for a change. Bloom's four years were up.

[Old Red]

We are largely seeing the same post Bloom pr campaign that we saw with previous Henry firings, the disparaging of the departed. Notice that the bad mouthing is always done by surrogates who never directly quote FO sources.

 

Once again, I do not think John Henry had any specific reason for firing Bloom. Nor do I think Bloom could have done anything to save his job. In Henry's mind it was simply time for a change. Bloom's four years were up.

 

Bloom could still most likely have a job had he gotten the Red Sox in the postseason the last two years especially this one.

[Bellhorn04]

So where the hell do they go from here? I think we all have a sense they're going to make some fan-pleasing splashes this offseason, so it's gonna be interesting.

[oldtimer]

The Sox are headed for their 3rd last place finish in the ALE in a row. Bloom's moves and in some case lack of them contributed to this, although a case can be made that DD left us in dire straights. I don't see that we had a plan for resolving the pitching issues in 2024 so moving on from Bloom made sense to me. A question remains in my mind about Cora. He managed the team during the last 3 year period. Did the Sox perform as well as we might have under his tenure? If the answer to that is no, Then maybe a complete shift of leadership is in order. If the new GM wants to make that call, perhaps he should be allowed to.

[Bellhorn04]

So you think the draft pick would have been better?

 

Just my opinion, but I think when Average Fan says he hated the Mookie trade, it's shorthand for hating that they let him go.

[Old Red]

So where the hell do they go from here? I think we all have a sense they're going to make some fan-pleasing splashes this offseason, so it's gonna be interesting.

I’m not so sure that big splash will be made, but who knows. If the pitching, and D doesn’t improve the team won’t improve. I’d hate to think they will trot out something resembling the lineup they are using right now minus JT.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom could still most likely have a job had he gotten the Red Sox in the postseason the last two years especially this one.

 

Probably... but instead he committed two other crimes (to ownership): not trade for deadline help with an eye on October, and not trade expiring (ugh) old guys with an eye on future Octobers.

 

Meanwhile, August sucked, as usual, for not doing the first one, and subsequently, so does September...

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox are headed for their 3rd last place finish in the ALE in a row. Bloom's moves and in some case lack of them contributed to this, although a case can be made that DD left us in dire straights. I don't see that we had a plan for resolving the pitching issues in 2024 so moving on from Bloom made sense to me. A question remains in my mind about Cora. He managed the team during the last 3 year period. Did the Sox perform as well as we might have under his tenure? If the answer to that is no, Then maybe a complete shift of leadership is in order. If the new GM wants to make that call, perhaps he should be allowed to.

 

As I just said in another thread, Red Sox media all seem to think Cora is still very much in the good graces of ownership.

 

The thing is, if we're firing Bloom because he did a lousy job constructing the 2022-2023 teams, it's hard to blame Cora too.

 

It would have taken a miracle for the 2023 Red Sox and their pitiful starting rotation to make the playoffs.