Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Not according to this thread. Grissom is just an expendable prospect and Chris Sale is currently a great pitcher. Haven’t you been reading about it?

 

Right now, Grissom is just a tenant in the House of Mystery.

 

He tried to sneak out a window, but pulled up lame. Then one of the gargoyles from the roof stuffed him back inside.

[mvp 78]

Red Sox sign RHP Chase Anderson to major league deal.

 

Cue the "We're saved!" posts.

 

A slight upgrade over an emergency start from Grant Gambrell IMO.

[mvp 78]

1. Bye Joe Jacques? Please.

 

2. I think they signed him because his successes from 2017-19 were in a period in his career he was throwing 92-93mph on average for his fastball. He then lost a couple mph on it and it didn’t get that high again until 2023. So maybe that’s what they’re hoping on?

 

But yeah, he’s pretty much bottom of the barrel. Makes me long for Kyle Gibson…

 

For an MiLB deal, sure. Not an MLB deal.

[mvp 78]

6.19 ERA since 2020.

 

Many pitchers signed to minor league deals look much better than this guy.

 

100%

[Bellhorn04]

This may have been something the PBT (Pitching Brain Trust) was looking at:

 

In 2023 Anderson finished in the 92nd percentile of all pitchers in hard-hit percentage (31.7%) and the 82nd percentile in average exit velocity (87.4 mph), per Statcast.

[Randy Red Sox]

Sale is a great pitcher .Grissom is an unproven prospect who may or may not ever amount to anything.. He was considered expendable by the Braves. However, the trade saved the Sox money. And that is the name of the game.

 

at least it is the name of the Red Sox game

[Randy Red Sox]

We’ve also seen pitchers with worse track records as starters at their age actually become good starters. Derek Lowe being a prime example…

 

i don't think Lowe was 36 before he became a good pitcher

[Randy Red Sox]

I do have some optimism that Breslow and Bailey are going to get good results out of Houck and Whitlock. Hopefully we find out once and for all what their best roles are.

 

right now with both in the rotation does it not leave the BP very suspect? what is the status on Janssen and Martin. Are they ready for opening day? Finally what is up with O'Neill? Is he healthy too?

[Hugh2]

100%

 

Allegedly made improvements to his cutter and curveball in second half, his 3.44 era supports that.

 

Not that this is one to get anyone excited. I think this means someone is definitely starting the year on the IL.

[Duran Is The Man]

No they didn’t. They had the Sox include $17mill to cover a huge chunk of his salary.

 

and the Braves also gave him a 2 year $38M extension.

[Bellhorn04]

Here are the details of Sale's deal with the Braves:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/atlanta-braves/chris-sale-7278/

 

Sale's $27 million remaining contract with the Red Sox was nullified and replaced by a new contract that guarantees him $38 million for 2024/2025. There's also an extra $1 million incentive of some sort for 2024.

 

Atlanta also holds a club option for 2026 at $18 million.

[moonslav59]

Here are the details of Sale's deal with the Braves:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/atlanta-braves/chris-sale-7278/

 

Sale's $27 million remaining contract with the Red Sox was nullified and replaced by a new contract that guarantees him $38 million for 2024/2025. There's also an extra $1 million incentive of some sort for 2024.

 

Atlanta also holds a club option for 2026 at $18 million.

 

They basically gave Sale $11 to maybe $12M for the "extra year" (2025.)

 

At today's rates, that seems about right.

[Bellhorn04]

They basically gave Sale $11 to maybe $12M for the "extra year" (2025.)

 

At today's rates, that seems about right.

 

It was a gutsy trade by Breslow. As he's well aware, it could make him look really good or really bad.

[notin]

For an MiLB deal, sure. Not an MLB deal.

 

Agreed.

 

There’s no such thing as a bad minor league contract. Not sure why the Sox give this guy a Major League deal when better pitchers like Eric Lauer and Domingo German had to settle for minor league deals elsewhere.

 

I’m not a huge Mike Clevinger fan either, but I would have begrudgingly understood a one year deal there as well…

[notin]

It was a gutsy trade by Breslow. As he's well aware, it could make him look really good or really bad.

 

Honestly, given what Sale has been going through the past 4 years, how much it’s cost the Sox and how little has translated into on field success, was it really that hard to understand?

 

If Sale had pitched 120 IP over the past 4 years for another team, and Breslow signed him, it would be labeled as a Dumster Dive signing here. And understandably so. But because he is elsewhere and gave the Braves 11 good spring training innings, Breslow clearly traded the 2024 and 2025 Obvious Cy Young Winner for an unproven player with a fatal groin injury, and only did so to save money despite agreeing to pay over 2/3 of Sale’s salary.

 

By the way, Chase Anderson has pitched 11 better innings than Sale this spring. How come that’s meaningless?

[Bellhorn04]

Honestly, given what Sale has been going through the past 4 years, how much it’s cost the Sox and how little has translated into on field success, was it really that hard to understand?

 

If Sale had pitched 120 IP over the past 4 years for another team, and Breslow signed him, it would be labeled as a Dumster Dive signing here. And understandably so. But because he is elsewhere and gave the Braves 11 good spring training innings, Breslow clearly traded the 2024 and 2025 Obvious Cy Young Winner for an unproven player with a fatal groin injury, and only did so to save money despite agreeing to pay over 2/3 of Sale’s salary.

 

By the way, Chase Anderson has pitched 11 better innings than Sale this spring. How come that’s meaningless?

 

We all know Chris Sale has serious upside IF HEALTHY.

 

That's easy to understand too.

[moonslav59]

It was a gutsy trade by Breslow. As he's well aware, it could make him look really good or really bad.

 

Indeed, but even if Sale wins the Cy Young, this year, it might still be a good deal for us.

[Bellhorn04]

Indeed, but even if Sale wins the Cy Young, this year, it might still be a good deal for us.

 

The Braves might get 3 good years from Sale at a very reasonable price and Grissom might be a total bust.

 

Or Sale might pitch 10 innings for the Braves and we might get 5 good years from Grissom at a very reasonable price.

 

The possibilities are myriad.

[moonslav59]

We all know Chris Sale has serious upside IF HEALTHY.

 

That's easy to understand too.

 

Nobody is denying Sale can be a great pitcher. Hell, he had a 3.16 in his last 15 GS, just last year.

 

To me, unless Grissom is a bust, it can't be a bad trade, and even if he is, Sale was not leading us to greatness, this season.

[Randy Red Sox]

Nobody is denying Sale can be a great pitcher. Hell, he had a 3.16 in his last 15 GS, just last year.

 

To me, unless Grissom is a bust, it can't be a bad trade, and even if he is, Sale was not leading us to greatness, this season.

 

but not replacing him with a decent option could sink us even further

[Bellhorn04]

Nobody is denying Sale can be a great pitcher. Hell, he had a 3.16 in his last 15 GS, just last year.

 

To me, unless Grissom is a bust, it can't be a bad trade, and even if he is, Sale was not leading us to greatness, this season.

 

Who needs greatness. I'll take playoffs.

[moonslav59]

Who needs greatness. I'll take playoffs.

 

1 year and maybe an early exit from the playoffs vs 5 years of Grissom may still not be worth it, and that is best case for no trade.

Edited March 24, 2024 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

1 year and maybe an early exit from the playoffs vs 5 years of Grissom may still not be worth it, and that is best case for no trade.

 

Best case for no trade would be the vesting option kicking in.

[Duran Is The Man]

Honestly, given what Sale has been going through the past 4 years, how much it’s cost the Sox and how little has translated into on field success, was it really that hard to understand?

 

If Sale had pitched 120 IP over the past 4 years for another team, and Breslow signed him, it would be labeled as a Dumster Dive signing here. And understandably so. But because he is elsewhere and gave the Braves 11 good spring training innings, Breslow clearly traded the 2024 and 2025 Obvious Cy Young Winner for an unproven player with a fatal groin injury, and only did so to save money despite agreeing to pay over 2/3 of Sale’s salary.

 

By the way, Chase Anderson has pitched 11 better innings than Sale this spring. How come that’s meaningless?

 

i get the idea of trading Sale because he hasn't done s*** the last few years but this is the same dumbass front office that signed Paxton, Hendricks, and Aldaberto to do the same exact thing -sit on the bench and get paid to rehab.

[Duran Is The Man]

indeed, but even if sale wins the cy young, this year, it might still be a good deal for us.

 

lol

[dgalehouse]

Indeed, but even if Sale wins the Cy Young, this year, it might still be a good deal for us.

 

Okay. Whatever. Even if there is a blizzard tomorrow, it'll still be a nice day.

[notin]

We all know Chris Sale has serious upside IF HEALTHY.

 

That's easy to understand too.

 

It’s easy to understand, but is it likely?

[Elktonnick]

It’s easy to understand, but is it likely?

I firmly believe the Red Sox decision to trade Sale was made after their consulted with their health insurance actuaries.

[Larry Cook]

Regardless of how sale does or does not do on 2024, it will still be three years before we can properly evaluate the Grissom trade debacle

[notin]

I firmly believe the Red Sox decision to trade Sale was made after their consulted with their health insurance actuaries.

 

Or, they looked at his baseball-reference page and noticed he was due $27million this year and had only pitched a total of 151 innings in the past four seasons.

 

They possibly also noticed that he hasn’t been the same pitcher since 2018…