Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

i guess we will see if Sale ends up missing much time this year. Sox didn't need him anyway given all the SP depth they have now

 

The reason they got rid of Sale is so he wouldn't take 10 starts away from the promising younger pitchers practicing under the tutelage of a new and improved pitching-focused organization; losing a few more starts each might impede their progress this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Would you rather have Sale for 2024 only? Or Vaughn Grissom for the next 5 seasons?

 

The Red Sox also had an option on Sale for 2025, so the comparison is really 2 years to 5 years.

[notin]

The Red Sox also had an option on Sale for 2025, so the comparison is really 2 years to 5 years.

 

That was a vesting option based on Cy Young voting…

[Bellhorn04]

That was a vesting option based on Cy Young voting…

 

They could have made it into a two-year deal just as the Braves did. When you have control over the player there are all kinds of things you can do besides let the contract expire...

[Old Red]

The reason they got rid of Sale is so he wouldn't take 10 starts away from the promising younger pitchers practicing under the tutelage of a new and improved pitching-focused organization; losing a few more starts each might impede their progress this year.

 

We’ve already seen the Houck, and Whitlock show, and we’ve also seen the re-runs. Not that good a show to be brought back for a third year, but at least they’re a cheap production.

[moonslav59]

Would you rather have Sale for 2024 only? Or Vaughn Grissom for the next 5 seasons?

 

It's a no brainer and even more so when you see how little has been invested in making 2024 anything special.

[Bellhorn04]

It's a no brainer and even more so when you see how little has been invested in making 2024 anything special.

 

Sure, it's a no brainer once we know they're not really in on 2024.

 

Like I say they've done a great job reducing our expectations. Now we'll be thrilled if they win 85 and finish 4th.

[Randy Red Sox]

Sure, it's a no brainer once we know they're not really in on 2024.

 

Like I say they've done a great job reducing our expectations. Now we'll be thrilled if they win 85 and finish 4th.

 

maybe you will be {no disrespect intended}

[Randy Red Sox]

Would you rather have Sale for 2024 only? Or Vaughn Grissom for the next 5 seasons?

 

jury is out on that till we see how good Grissom really is

[notin]

jury is out on that till we see how good Grissom really is

 

Jury is also still out on how healthy Sale is, not to mention what’s he got left. He hasn’t been the same pitcher since 2018. The only think anyone know about Sale going forward is how much he is going to cost. But it is amazing how many people have looked up his spring training stats and thought “he’s gone all of 11 innings without surgery!! He’s clearly back to being the 6 bWAR pitcher he was before and will never again be the pitcher worth a total of 4.7 bWAR in 5 years since!”

[notin]

They could have made it into a two-year deal just as the Braves did. When you have control over the player there are all kinds of things you can do besides let the contract expire...

 

Think Sale was going to be worth that $20mill in 2025?

 

It was very far from being any sort of guarantee…

[dgalehouse]

Sale is a great pitcher .Grissom is an unproven prospect who may or may not ever amount to anything.. He was considered expendable by the Braves. However, the trade saved the Sox money. And that is the name of the game.

[notin]

We’ve already seen the Houck, and Whitlock show, and we’ve also seen the re-runs. Not that good a show to be brought back for a third year, but at least they’re a cheap production.

 

We’ve also seen pitchers with worse track records as starters at their age actually become good starters. Derek Lowe being a prime example…

[notin]

Sale is a great pitcher .Grissom is an unproven prospect who may or may not ever amount to anything.. He was considered expendable by the Braves. However, the trade saved the Sox money. And that is the name of the game.

 

Think Sale still is a great pitcher?

 

If the Sox simply wanted to trade away Sale’s contract, they had other offers that gave them less in return but took on everything owed to Sale. Grissom was definitely a player Breslow was targeting here…

[Old Red]

We’ve also seen pitchers with worse track records as starters at their age actually become good starters. Derek Lowe being a prime example…

 

Maybe, but as I’ve said for two years now, both Whit, and Houck should be in the pen, and would be if not for being cheap options for the rotation.

[Bellhorn04]

Think Sale was going to be worth that $20mill in 2025?

 

It was very far from being any sort of guarantee…

 

The jury is out on everything.

[moonslav59]

Sure, it's a no brainer once we know they're not really in on 2024.

 

Like I say they've done a great job reducing our expectations. Now we'll be thrilled if they win 85 and finish 4th.

 

I'd rather have Grissom, even if we sign Monty & Duvall and trade Duran for a decent SP for 2024 and beyond.

 

5 yrs vs 1 and possibly 2 tips the balance, IMO.

 

Of course, Grissom might be the next Downs, but he has already shown some ability at the MLB level and should be a decent defender at 2B in a short while.

 

Who knows, maybe he becomes an excellent overall 2Bman, very soon, and gives us 4+ years or stability at a position we have seen a merry-go-round of futility since Pedey.

[moonslav59]

The jury is out on everything.

 

Indeed.

 

Our team is stacked with players that juries are watching.

 

(And, Sox fans are very shrewd jurors.)

[notin]

Maybe, but as I’ve said for two years now, both Whit, and Houck should be in the pen, and would be if not for being cheap options for the rotation.

 

I’ve campaigned for that as well, as both have a solid track record there. Although I do think a lot of people (myself included) forgot Houck actually looked mildly promising as a starter in 2021. He didn’t rack up the IP as he needed to, but he did post a 3.68 ERA in the role.

 

 

I do know Sale hasn’t been the answer to keeping them in the bullpen. It’s probably more accurate to say Sale is a big part of the reason one or both were needed as starters. I’d rather the Sox had gone out and gotten even some mediocre starters (Eric Lauer, for example) and kept both in what could have been an absolutely killer bullpen.

 

But just because they’re both better relievers doesn’t mean they have no future as starters. And their limited track records are not anything either cannot necessarily overcome…

[Bellhorn04]

I do have some optimism that Breslow and Bailey are going to get good results out of Houck and Whitlock. Hopefully we find out once and for all what their best roles are.

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox sign RHP Chase Anderson to major league deal.

 

Cue the "We're saved!" posts.

[Duran Is The Man]

Think Sale was going to be worth that $20mill in 2025?

 

It was very far from being any sort of guarantee…

 

the Braves thought he'd be worth it.

[Duran Is The Man]

Red Sox sign RHP Chase Anderson to major league deal.

 

Cue the "We're saved!" posts.

 

36 years old and not good enough to make it with the Pirates, so the Sox sign him. awesome.

[Bellhorn04]

the Pirates didn't think he was good enough to make their big league club, so the Sox sign him. awesome.

 

B and B must see something in him. Their judgment and methods are really gonna be put to the test over the next 6 months.

[notin]

the Braves thought he'd be worth it.

 

No they didn’t. They had the Sox include $17mill to cover a huge chunk of his salary.

[notin]

36 years old and not good enough to make it with the Pirates, so the Sox sign him. awesome.

 

1. Bye Joe Jacques? Please.

 

2. I think they signed him because his successes from 2017-19 were in a period in his career he was throwing 92-93mph on average for his fastball. He then lost a couple mph on it and it didn’t get that high again until 2023. So maybe that’s what they’re hoping on?

 

But yeah, he’s pretty much bottom of the barrel. Makes me long for Kyle Gibson…

[Bellhorn04]

No they didn’t. They had the Sox include $17mill to cover a huge chunk of his salary.

 

Grissom would be part of that equation.

[notin]

Grissom would be part of that equation.

 

Not according to this thread. Grissom is just an expendable prospect and Chris Sale is currently a great pitcher. Haven’t you been reading about it?

[moonslav59]

Red Sox sign RHP Chase Anderson to major league deal.

 

Cue the "We're saved!" posts.

 

6.19 ERA since 2020.

 

Many pitchers signed to minor league deals look much better than this guy.

[notin]

6.19 ERA since 2020.

 

Many pitchers signed to minor league deals look much better than this guy.

 

Also only 192 IP in the past 4 years.

 

Not sure why they passed on a few others in order to give this guy a Major League deal…