Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

And who do you think is a better team: LAD or RS? Which one has players you would rather see: LAD or RS? And as a customer, who would you rather follow: LAD or the RS? Or: how many last place finishes has LAD had in the post-McCourt era? How many fan-favorite, HOF quality players has LAD traded away or let go?

 

Hey where did those goal posts go?

[moonslav59]

Why fire Bloom?

 

So, are people (not you cp) now saying maybe it wasn't Bloom's fault?

[moonslav59]

Ignore what we all know he did or didn't do the past four years, and see how his firing may be perceived by owners as the best PR move going forward.

 

For three months, it raised expectations across Red Sox Nation that big changes were actually in store.

 

But by now we know: it was just cheaper than signing better players at fair market value.

 

Don't worry, they'll allow Breslow to make a splish soon to restore a glimmer of hope... something like one of the Three Stooges shooting a hole in the canoe to let the water leak out.

 

Good one.

 

I think it's plain to see why the team is where it is, today, as well as where were were for about 5 years, but let's not ignore the fact that Bloom did poorly with a large percent of his biggest signings and trades that affected the big club. I do not think it is crazy to think management felt someone could have done and will do better.

 

If the same constraints remain, it is highly doubtful even a good GM can build a winner, but doing better than Bloom is far from doubtful.

[moonslav59]

They are saying so.....with their actions. They aren't going to say so in words for the media to digest-ever.

 

What are the media and fans doing with the words they are saying and have been for over 4 years?

 

Is that working for them?

 

I agree, 4 years ago, had we said we are going to try and do it the "Rays Way," they'd have been bashed to pieces, but aren't they being bashed to pieces, now?

 

They just put it off for awhile, and the realization of the lies makes it even worse.

 

They can keep saying "full throttle" all they want, but to me, coming clean and stating their "Rays' Way" plan would get a better reception, now, than doubling down on the big lies.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Can't rule out the last minute panic move.

 

I still think the Story signing was such a move, as they correctly gauged the fan disgust building to a level of open revolt.

 

I'm not expecting such a move, now. They seem to have accepted people now know who they are, and they can't fool anyone anymore.

[Bellhorn04]

So, are people (not you cp) now saying maybe it wasn't Bloom's fault?

 

It's like the owners and the rest of the front office are going out of their way to make it look like it wasn't Bloom's fault...

 

Because the team seems even more paralyzed by indecision and budget worries this offseason than they were last offseason.

[moonslav59]

I have been hearing the Red Sox are hot after snell, but need find buyers for yoshida and Jansen

 

Haven't they already found out the top offers for Yoshida and Jansen?

 

Nobody is going to up their offers or appear out of nowhere to blow us away with a new offer.

 

All winter, we've been telling agents to wait as we clear budget space. Wait for what? An offer like we made for Imanaga?

 

LOL!

 

[Old Red]

So, are people (not you cp) now saying maybe it wasn't Bloom's fault?

 

Bloom still had many faults with, or without JH help.🤭

[moonslav59]

It's like the owners and the rest of the front office are going out of their way to make it look like it wasn't Bloom's fault...

 

Because the team seems even more paralyzed by indecision and budget worries this offseason than they were last offseason.

 

I still think they want us to believe Brez can do a much better job than Bloom did. It's not like $200M teams never make the playoffs.

 

I get your point, though. They are trying to walk a thin line. They leaking of the non Sale trade was very strategic, and if all true, it does expose one of Bloom's fatal flaws, but it also looks like a total reflection of what the whole FO has been for 5 years. (Yes, I'm including 2019, when we let Kimbrell & Kelly go.)

 

Brez has seemed more decisive than Bloom, but he seems to be starting out where Bloom did in 2020. He's been given an impossible task.

 

As the years went by, Bloom was given a larger and larger winter spending budget, but in some cases, the amount he was given barely covered what we lost in key players walking away from the Sox. Year one for Bloom was impossible. Forget the Covid part of it: he was forced to trade Betts with half Price and not replace them plus Porcello's money with anyone more highly paid than Martin Perez. Yet, people blamed Bloom, and still do for losing Betts and turning the 2018 team into crap.

 

Now, we see a team that finished in last place 2 years in a row replacing Turner, Duvall, Dugo and Sale with Gio, O'Neill & Grissom.

 

Nothing has changed, except our perception and realization that the sham did not start in the winter of '23-'24.

 

(Not that everyone just realized it, now. Many saw it years ago.)

 

[notin]

Ignore what we all know he did or didn't do the past four years, and see how his firing may be perceived by owners as the best PR move going forward.

 

For three months, it raised expectations across Red Sox Nation that big changes were actually in store.

 

But by now we know: it was just cheaper than signing better players at fair market value.

 

Don't worry, they'll allow Breslow to make a splish soon to restore a glimmer of hope... something like one of the Three Stooges shooting a hole in the canoe to let the water leak out.

 

Curly DRILLED that hole!!!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Curly DRILLED that hole!!!

 

Curly could never control himself in the clutch, especially when the organist played ''Three Blind Mice." He had that nasty habit with the cheese, and threw his weight around on too many grounders. Yet, the franchise gave him the big extension to finish his career as a Stooge, because he was the fan favorite.

[notin]

Curly could never control himself in the clutch, especially when the organist played ''Three Blind Mice." He had that nasty habit with the cheese, and threw his weight around on too many grounders. Yet, the franchise gave him the big extension to finish his career as a Stooge, because he was the fan favorite.

 

They replaced him with his brother!!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They replaced him with his brother!!

 

Only after Curly replaced Shemp. It was like Mirabelli driving the cruiser and delivering Stephen Drew.

[notin]

And who do you think is a better team: LAD or RS? Which one has players you would rather see: LAD or RS? And as a customer, who would you rather follow: LAD or the RS? Or: how many last place finishes has LAD had in the post-McCourt era? How many fan-favorite, HOF quality players has LAD traded away or let go?

 

Two obvious. Maybe three, depending on whether or not you think Yordan Alvarez is a Hall of Famer. (He has a legit shot.) One of them won a World Series this past year. Possible four if you count Zack Greinke.

 

They also once non-tendered a 26yo former ROY and MVP. Non-tendered!! Granted, that got isn’t going to the Hall of Fame. But MVP at 23 and non-tendered at 26! And yes, an absolute fan favorite…

[jad]

Two obvious. Maybe three, depending on whether or not you think Yordan Alvarez is a Hall of Famer. (He has a legit shot.) One of them won a World Series this past year. Possible four if you count Zack Greinke.

 

They also once non-tendered a 26yo former ROY and MVP. Non-tendered!! Granted, that got isn’t going to the Hall of Fame. But MVP at 23 and non-tendered at 26! And yes, an absolute fan favorite…

 

Yeah I got carried away. I will never forgive the RS for Betts. So that said, what about the other three questions before my enthusiastic fit got the better of me?

[notin]

Yeah I got carried away. I will never forgive the RS for Betts. So that said, what about the other three questions before my enthusiastic fit got the better of me?

 

 

The Dodger are better right now. That’s not really up for debate.

 

The Sox are trying to be Tampa North. I refuted it when 5Gold started it 5 years ago, but the entire history of Henry’s tenure does indicate this kind of thing is something he wanted. It just started out as Oakland East…

[moonslav59]

Two obvious. Maybe three, depending on whether or not you think Yordan Alvarez is a Hall of Famer. (He has a legit shot.) One of them won a World Series this past year. Possible four if you count Zack Greinke.

 

They also once non-tendered a 26yo former ROY and MVP. Non-tendered!! Granted, that got isn’t going to the Hall of Fame. But MVP at 23 and non-tendered at 26! And yes, an absolute fan favorite…

 

A team doing much better than the Dodgers, and who went with a Rays guy for a while is the Astros.

 

7 straight playoff seasons (8 of 9)

7 straight ALCS appearances (3 wins)

2 WS rings in 7 years

 

They have let the following players go- many via free agency:

Correa

Springer

Verlander

Cole

Morton

Greinke

Keuchel

 

Word around here is they may not keep 2 or 3 from Bregman, Tucker and Framber Valdez.

[moonslav59]

MLBTR mentions Bloom...

 

As Jones notes, the comments from Mozeliak serve to highlight the club’s recent hiring of former Red Sox chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom in an advisory role. While the hire was only announced earlier this week, Mozeliak indicated today that Bloom has been advising the several months and that the club’s acquisitions this offseason have been “bounce(d) off” the club’s new hire. Mozeliak went as far as to note that Bloom has factored into discussions with chairman Bill DeWitt III regarding the future of the baseball operations department following Mozeliak’s eventual move away from leading the club, though he went on to note GM Mike Girsch and scouting director Randy Flores as other potential candidates.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Dodger are better right now. That’s not really up for debate.

 

The Sox are trying to be Tampa North. I refuted it when 5Gold started it 5 years ago, but the entire history of Henry’s tenure does indicate this kind of thing is something he wanted. It just started out as Oakland East…

 

I didn't make up that nickname or have an epiphany. "Moneyball" the movie was the historical document that told us all we needed to know about John Henry.

 

What was alarming and now disheartening to some of us was that Henry had already won so many rings from spending big -- in money and prospect capital -- and presumably made so much profit (based on the value of the franchise), and then decided to regress character to his Brad Pitt scene... back when the old curse was still hovering through the fog and filthy air.

[jad]

The Dodger are better right now. That’s not really up for debate.

 

The Sox are trying to be Tampa North. I refuted it when 5Gold started it 5 years ago, but the entire history of Henry’s tenure does indicate this kind of thing is something he wanted. It just started out as Oakland East…

 

Yeah, it's odd. Like what did he think? 'Tampa North'? only that magically, the seats would fill? (something that never happened in Tampa). Likely most people who go to games go to see stars, not a team, however successful. I know I do! If I could see Ted Williams, or Yaz, or Rice, or Betts, I was happy; winning was secondary.

[vjcsmoke]

I have been hearing the Red Sox are hot after snell, but need find buyers for yoshida and Jansen

 

So I just read an article that the Red Sox might trade Jansen away to the Dodgers: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/dodgers-seen-as-possible-trade-partner-for-red-sox-star-in-surprise-move/ar-AA1mV0xp

 

This smells like an obvious salary dump move to get rid of our best closer and one of the top closers in baseball right now.

 

As you mentioned, management might 'justify' the dump as a move to open salary space to sign Snell at first but I bet you they'll just turn around and say later that Snell wanted too much money and they got 'outbid'.

 

Red Sox still haven't spent the money they saved from trading away Sale so I doubt they plan to do any actual significant spending to improve the roster.

 

They're going to wait until they see a serious amount of empty seats before making any moves and by then all the good free agent talent will already be gone and have found teams.

 

It's a vicious cycle - dump talent, dump salary, promise to spend, do nothing, enjoy larger profit margins all while lying to the fans.

 

Meanwhile they enjoy spending 16m less salary from dumping Jansen and just line their pockets with more money.

Edited January 14, 2024 by vjcsmoke

[moonslav59]

They should just go total sell off, at this point.

 

It's all out in the open.

 

No need to hide, anymore, turtles.

 

No need for the sham, anymore.

[cp176]

Yeah, it's odd. Like what did he think? 'Tampa North'? only that magically, the seats would fill? (something that never happened in Tampa). Likely most people who go to games go to see stars, not a team, however successful. I know I do! If I could see Ted Williams, or Yaz, or Rice, or Betts, I was happy; winning was secondary.

 

This is an interesting post. Guess I feel the same way. We don't live close to Fenway so traveling there has been an event to be entertained. Seeing the best players in the game motivated me to visit. I want to be entertained and watching mediocre no names doesn't entertain me much whether they win or not.

[notin]

Yeah, it's odd. Like what did he think? 'Tampa North'? only that magically, the seats would fill? (something that never happened in Tampa). Likely most people who go to games go to see stars, not a team, however successful. I know I do! If I could see Ted Williams, or Yaz, or Rice, or Betts, I was happy; winning was secondary.

 

 

Disagree there. While people like the stars, the team is priority for most. You didn’t send your fandom to LA when Betts was traded, did you?

 

I have purchased numerous Red Sox merchandise over the years. All of it with team logo. None of it with player names. I’m not alone like that.

 

Maybe you prefer watching stars; but I think plenty if not most prefer a good team…

Edited January 14, 2024 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

Disagree there. While people like the stars, the team is priority for most. You didn’t send your fandom to LA when Betts was traded, did you?

 

I have purchased numerous Red Sox merchandise over the years. All of it with team logo. None of it with player names. I’m not alone like that.

 

Maybe you prefer watching stars; but I think plenty of not most prefer a good team…

 

It's both. Winning games and winning the championship are the bottom line, but our experience as Sox fans wouldn't be the same without the stars, from Yaz/Rice/Luis to Manny/Ortiz/Pedro.

[notin]

It's both. Winning games and winning the championship are the bottom line, but our experience as Sox fans wouldn't be the same without the stars, from Yaz/Rice/Luis to Manny/Ortiz/Pedro.

 

The stars might help a team win, but does anyone care about a team of stars that isn’t good?

 

I doubt many Mets’ fans last year got excited about their sub-.500 star-filled team. And I seriously doubt many were buying tickets to watch Alonso, Lindor, Verlander and Scherzer lose…

Edited January 14, 2024 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

The stars might hel a team win, but does anyone care about a team of stars that isn’t good? I doubt many Mets’ fans last year got excited about their sub-.500 star-filled team. And I seriously doubt many were buying tickets to watch Alonso, Lindor, Verlander and Scherzer lose…

 

Like I said, we want both. We want a winning team with some stars on it. We're a little greedy, I guess.

 

A faceless team that wins is preferable to a team of stars that loses - if that's your main point, I agree.

[notin]

Like I said, we want both. We want a winning team with some stars on it. We're a little greedy, I guess.

 

A faceless team that wins is preferable to a team of stars that loses - if that's your main point, I agree.

 

 

It is my main point. Fans like star players, but they want a winner. Many fans determine buying a ticket based on the day’s SP. Not necessarily because said pitcher is a star, but because the best SP represents the best chance to win…

[Bellhorn04]

It is my main point. Fans like star players, but they want a winner. Many fans determine buying a ticket based on the day’s SP. Not necessarily because said pitcher is a star, but because the best SP represents the best chance to win…

 

Sure. Of course a lot of the fans at any particular game are season ticket holders, non-STH hardcore types who attend a lot of games, and tourists who buy their tickets based on when they're in town.

 

One question that spins out of this is whether teams that win the title tend to have big stars or not. My guess is they usually do. Red Sox champs of this century certainly did.

[Old Red]

It's both. Winning games and winning the championship are the bottom line, but our experience as Sox fans wouldn't be the same without the stars, from Yaz/Rice/Luis to Manny/Ortiz/Pedro.

 

You are 100% correct. Yaz is where it all started for me, and then Tony C came along, and many, many have followed since then.