Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

All I’ve said is that I’m not sure these guys will live up to the hype that you, and others are counting on. Just like I think it’s a very risky proposition to go into next season with a core group in the OF of Raf Man, and Abreu. Not to mention Duran. If all these guys work out then great, but I want to see it first.

 

Name one poster is "counting on" even one to be a star?

 

I don't think anyone has said it.

 

I do think it's reasonable to think 1 or 2 will do very well, but I'm not counting on it happening.

 

I want us to add a longer term 2Bman, even though we have Story. Am I "counting on" Mayer?

 

I want us to add a longer term OF'er, depsite having Rafaela, Abreu, now, and Anthony knocking on the 2025 door.

 

I like our catching tandem of Wong and McGuire, and don't think we really need an upgrade, there, but Tell's existence is not making me feel that way.

 

I have no prospect penciled into a starting role. I'm wary on even counting on Rafaela and Abreu to combine on handling one OF slot in '24. I argues with notin about trading Rafaela for ECAB, because I am not fully counting on Abreo.

 

I don't want to speak for others, but I'm not seeing anyone thinking any of these 3 are sure All Stars.

[Old Red]

I'm not saying to count on it, just not to always be content to wallow in your own misery day in and day out.

 

I agree that they need to spend in the short term to cover for any current inadequacies on the 26 man roster until there are viable in house replacements. However, I'm not sure offense should be the biggest concern. If they just spent big on the starting rotation, I think the team would do pretty well.

Wallowing in misery, and I’m just making a guess here comes from a 2 yr run now of a losing last place in the Div team. The Red Sox from top to bottom have become dysfunctional at best, and now to the point that at least 10 candidates for the HOBO position wouldn’t even interview, and one of them was in-house. The Red Sox if you listen to, and read other venues have become not the place where people want to be as Sam claimed before going out hunting for HOBO candidates. They are what their record says they’ve been. Playoffs? Did someone say playoffs? The Red Sox have dropped to a low bar, and until things change I don’t see anything to get excited about.

[moonslav59]

Wallowing in misery, and I’m just making a guess here comes from a 2 yr run now of a losing last place in the Div team. The Red Sox from top to bottom have become dysfunctional at best, and now to the point that at least 10 candidates for the HOBO position wouldn’t even interview, and one of them was in-house. The Red Sox if you listen to, and read other venues have become not the place where people want to be as Sam claimed before going out hunting for HOBO candidates. They are what their record says they’ve been. Playoffs? Did someone say playoffs? The Red Sox have dropped to a low bar, and until things change I don’t see anything to get excited about.

 

How do you think these 3 ares of the Sox system compare to 2021? (I won't use 2020. That would be too easy.)

 

The 26 man roster.

The 27-40 slots of the roster.

The farm, beyond the 40 man.

 

Be honest and serious. Answer the questions with answers, not questions or twists to the questions.

 

Try that, just once.

[mvp 78]

Werner has money, too. Can't he kick in his own chump change?

 

He did. He's part owner, right?

[moonslav59]

He did. He's part owner, right?

 

I mean, if JH is reluctant to spend on say, Yamamoto, Werner could say, "I'll pay for him out of my own pocket."

[mvp 78]

I mean, if JH is reluctant to spend on say, Yamamoto, Werner could say, "I'll pay for him out of my own pocket."

 

That's the dumbest thing I've heard. If it came to anything like that, Werner would be more apt to find other people to buy out Henry instead.

[Old Red]

That's the dumbest thing I've heard. If it came to anything like that, Werner would be more apt to find other people to buy out Henry instead.

 

On a roll!

[mvp 78]

@FabianArdaya

Yoshinobu Yamamoto’s meeting with the Dodgers yesterday at Dodger Stadium featured star power that included Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman….and Shohei Ohtani, sources tell me and @Ken_Rosenthal.

 

We just don't deserve Yamamoto enough according to some posters! FAIR! We need to be punished!

[Old Red]

@FabianArdaya

Yoshinobu Yamamoto’s meeting with the Dodgers yesterday at Dodger Stadium featured star power that included Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman….and Shohei Ohtani, sources tell me and @Ken_Rosenthal.

 

We just don't deserve Yamamoto enough according to some posters! FAIR! We need to be punished!

 

The Mets went to Japan to meet with the Yam Man that’s how serious they were.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

@FabianArdaya

Yoshinobu Yamamoto’s meeting with the Dodgers yesterday at Dodger Stadium featured star power that included Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman….and Shohei Ohtani, sources tell me and @Ken_Rosenthal.

 

We just don't deserve Yamamoto enough according to some posters! FAIR! We need to be punished!

 

Mookie didn't forget his roots, though, and warned of all the negative aspects of living in Southern California compared to New England: sunburns, dry climes (so less sweat, which cleanses bodies of toxins)... and everybody has to wake up three hours earlier!

[moonslav59]

That's the dumbest thing I've heard. If it came to anything like that, Werner would be more apt to find other people to buy out Henry instead.

 

I know it could/would never happen, yet people seem to think it's as simple as saying JH should just open his pocket and fork over his own cash.

 

I wonder how much, if any input Werner has in how much is spent on the player budget.

[moonslav59]

@FabianArdaya

Yoshinobu Yamamoto’s meeting with the Dodgers yesterday at Dodger Stadium featured star power that included Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman….and Shohei Ohtani, sources tell me and @Ken_Rosenthal.

 

We just don't deserve Yamamoto enough according to some posters! FAIR! We need to be punished!

 

You've been hanging out on The Big Corner, too much.

[Hugh2]

Yama will play for whoever offers him the best deal. I seriously doubt rolling out the red carpet with some pretty faces is going to move the needle.

 

FWIW Marino Pepen said last night that the Sox strategy was to meet with Yamamoto last, which Yamamoto has agree too. Feels like the type of thing you would do if you wanted to top the best offer out there.

 

Also, not one single free agent who was reportedly at the top of the Sox wish list has signed yet, but I can understand why people are skeptical after the last few years. But Yamamoto, Montgeomery, and a RHB were the top of the wish list. The first two are still free agents. Sox reportedly are looking in the trade market for an upgrade at 2nd. Bullpen is already looking overcrowded with guys fighting for a position, adding 1-2 starters only makes that group of pitchers fighting for a spot larger. Really feels like a trade is coming soon. Say whatever you want about this team, but as of right now, the offseason they wanted is still 100% out there.

 

[Hugh2]

Last offseason was won by the Mets and the Padres.

 

The Mets spent $343 million and went 75-87

The Pads spent $256 million and went 82-80 and had to take out a loan to make payroll and are selling assets.

 

I want the Sox to spend more, but I also want them to not freak out and just throw a bunch money arouna and outbid everyone just to say they won something. I want them to spend the money wisely.

[mvp 78]

Yama will play for whoever offers him the best deal. I seriously doubt rolling out the red carpet with some pretty faces is going to move the needle.

 

FWIW Marino Pepen said last night that the Sox strategy was to meet with Yamamoto last, which Yamamoto has agree too. Feels like the type of thing you would do if you wanted to top the best offer out there.

 

Also, not one single free agent who was reportedly at the top of the Sox wish list has signed yet, but I can understand why people are skeptical after the last few years. But Yamamoto, Montgeomery, and a RHB were the top of the wish list. The first two are still free agents. Sox reportedly are looking in the trade market for an upgrade at 2nd. Bullpen is already looking overcrowded with guys fighting for a position, adding 1-2 starters only makes that group of pitchers fighting for a spot larger. Really feels like a trade is coming soon. Say whatever you want about this team, but as of right now, the offseason they wanted is still 100% out there.

 

 

I'm hopeful, but skeptical and I'll leave it at that. I'm not going to judge Crag until the big fish ACTUALLY get away and until ST ACTUALLY starts.

[Old Red]

Last offseason was won by the Mets and the Padres.

 

The Mets spent $343 million and went 75-87

The Pads spent $256 million and went 82-80 and had to take out a loan to make payroll and are selling assets.

 

I want the Sox to spend more, but I also want them to not freak out and just throw a bunch money arouna and outbid everyone just to say they won something. I want them to spend the money wisely.

Sometimes it takes more than a year, and more than 1 boatload of money. Texas spent tons before the 2022 season, and went 68-94, but won it all last year. Spending is only part of it, and making good choices is the other.

[moonslav59]

I'm hopeful, but skeptical and I'll leave it at that. I'm not going to judge Crag until the big fish ACTUALLY get away and until ST ACTUALLY starts.

 

I hope we don't have to rely on two trades to get 2 decent SP'ers. (I'd prefer none.)

 

If we miss out on Yamo, and Monty, too, it won't be pretty, here.

[moonslav59]

Sometimes it takes more than a year, and more than 1 boatload of money. Texas spent tons before the 2022 season, and went 68-94, but won it all last year. Spending is only part of it, and making good choices is the other.

 

Indeed. Then, they spent bigly in '23, too, and although they won it all, they sure swung and missed on deGrom. Heaney was meh. Nate did great, despite the injury.

 

[Hugh2]

Sox Payroll is at about $174 million right now (for luxury tax purposes) the first cap is 237 million, the second is 257 million. You can assume if a team is willing to go over one threshold theres' not much stopping them from spending up until the next cap. Seeing how they reset last year one can assume the budget or plausible max budget may be $83 million dollars. This number may vary, does Piveta get traded if two starters are signed? because then you can up that number to $91 million, but you also figure they want about $10 million in wiggle room.

 

Lets be fair and say they have about $73 million of AAV to add if they wanted. Sale and Pivetta would already be locked in to allow them to reset again the year after if they want.

 

I'm by no means saying the Sox will do this, given their recent track record it would be awful bet. But the money is there to sign both Yamamoto and Montgomery. I really feel like we're getting one, my pipe dream is to have both, but one would be fine.

 

Breslow seems to be making a lot of Bloom-esq moves, which many of us never had a problem with but rather we were bothered by his inability to make "the big move" the big move is still out there this offseason. Minus one Ohtani.

[Hugh2]

Sometimes it takes more than a year, and more than 1 boatload of money. Texas spent tons before the 2022 season, and went 68-94, but won it all last year. Spending is only part of it, and making good choices is the other.

 

 

Agreed. I want the Red Sox to start spending more money. But I want that money going everywhere. I want investments in better players but also scouts, of the eye and analytic kind, I want more trainers and coaches, better ones too.

[mvp 78]

I hope we don't have to rely on two trades to get 2 decent SP'ers. (I'd prefer none.)

 

If we miss out on Yamo, and Monty, too, it won't be pretty, here.

 

If they miss out on Yamamoto, they are going to settle for either Monty or Snell IMO. They will overpay for one of those guys.

[Bellhorn04]

Yama will play for whoever offers him the best deal. I seriously doubt rolling out the red carpet with some pretty faces is going to move the needle.

 

FWIW Marino Pepen said last night that the Sox strategy was to meet with Yamamoto last, which Yamamoto has agree too. Feels like the type of thing you would do if you wanted to top the best offer out there.

 

Also, not one single free agent who was reportedly at the top of the Sox wish list has signed yet, but I can understand why people are skeptical after the last few years. But Yamamoto, Montgeomery, and a RHB were the top of the wish list. The first two are still free agents. Sox reportedly are looking in the trade market for an upgrade at 2nd. Bullpen is already looking overcrowded with guys fighting for a position, adding 1-2 starters only makes that group of pitchers fighting for a spot larger. Really feels like a trade is coming soon. Say whatever you want about this team, but as of right now, the offseason they wanted is still 100% out there.

 

 

You see situations where the player is offered the same money by two teams and picks his favorite. Ohtani was reportedly offered the same deal by the Giants as he was by the Dodgers.

 

And of course last year Eflin picked the Rays over the Sox with identical offers.

[mvp 78]

You see situations where the player is offered the same money by two teams and picks his favorite. Ohtani was reportedly offered the same deal by the Giants as he was by the Dodgers.

 

And of course last year Eflin picked the Rays over the Sox with identical offers.

 

He was offered the same exact deal with the same deferrals? I find that a little hard to believe.

[Bellhorn04]

He was offered the same exact deal with the same deferrals? I find that a little hard to believe.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/zaidi-giants-offered-same-deal-that-ohtani-accepted-from-dodgers.html

[moonslav59]

If they miss out on Yamamoto, they are going to settle for either Monty or Snell IMO. They will overpay for one of those guys.

 

I want to believe this, so badly.

[mvp 78]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/zaidi-giants-offered-same-deal-that-ohtani-accepted-from-dodgers.html

 

They said it was "comparable."

[moonslav59]

Sox Payroll is at about $174 million right now (for luxury tax purposes) the first cap is 237 million, the second is 257 million. You can assume if a team is willing to go over one threshold theres' not much stopping them from spending up until the next cap. Seeing how they reset last year one can assume the budget or plausible max budget may be $83 million dollars. This number may vary, does Piveta get traded if two starters are signed? because then you can up that number to $91 million, but you also figure they want about $10 million in wiggle room.

 

Lets be fair and say they have about $73 million of AAV to add if they wanted. Sale and Pivetta would already be locked in to allow them to reset again the year after if they want.

 

I'm by no means saying the Sox will do this, given their recent track record it would be awful bet. But the money is there to sign both Yamamoto and Montgomery. I really feel like we're getting one, my pipe dream is to have both, but one would be fine.

 

Breslow seems to be making a lot of Bloom-esq moves, which many of us never had a problem with but rather we were bothered by his inability to make "the big move" the big move is still out there this offseason. Minus one Ohtani.

 

This certainly looks doable, if the will is there.

 

BTW, cots has us under the first line by $56M, which included estimated arbs and player benefits. Add $19M to that, and the drop dead number might be $75M- less with more "wiggle room than $1M.)

 

IMO, we have 3 major needs, and I hope the vast majority, if not all of these funds go to 3 free agents (or maybe a very good high-priced player some team wants to deal away.)

 

It could look like this:

 

$33M Yamo

$27M Monty

$15M for 2B or 2B+C or RF

 

or

 

$35M Yamo

$20M Imanaga

$10M 2B

$10M C or RF

 

I hope it's not $10M x 7 players.

[Old Red]

They said it was "comparable."

 

But the city, and the team was not.

[moonslav59]

But the city, and the team was not.

 

Man, talk about playing second fiddle.

 

First Correa. Now, Ohtani.

 

Maybe they offer Yamo $350M just to win one.

[Bellhorn04]

Man, talk about playing second fiddle.

 

First Correa. Now, Ohtani.

 

Maybe they offer Yamo $350M just to win one.

 

They were in on Judge as well, right?