Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Old Red]

None of them were there at the time…

 

And the farm wasn’t emptied.🙈

[mvp 78]

There goes that emptying the farm thing again. Seems like the Sox have some guys playing now that didn’t get emptied.

 

Where were they, in the DSL? How many DSL guys get traded? What was Tanner Houck's value in 2019?

[mvp 78]

And the farm wasn’t emptied.

 

Ranked 30th out of 30.

[mvp 78]

"It wasn't emptied. They still retained all the 2019 draft picks, Triston Casas and broken down Bryan Mata who has no value."

[Hugh2]

But then we have to also consider why Dombrowski was fired.

 

Why? been there done that, that's 2019 news. It doesn't matter why Dave was fired, why Dave was fired has little to do with 2023 and what the Sox want or think Bloom can do.

[Hugh2]

Emptied the farm isn't anagolous with...

 

There are no prospects in this system and if one becomes a good mlb player that actually means the farm wasn't emptied.

 

What if we had twice the amount of young stars on this team right now? probably doesn't happen because a lot of guys we did trade away were busts but that's precisely the type of thing that if it does happen turns you into Atlanta.

[sk7326]

Ranked 30th out of 30.

 

The thing with the farm rankings if you look over time is that it makes perfect sense for good teams to fall in the rankings ... if you graduate prospects or deal them for major league help, well of course. It'd be nice to be the Dodgers who don't seem to have such mortal team concerns, but everybody else has had to deal with that.

 

And it was definitely wild that Dombrowski hado to walk the plank for it less than a year after he delivered on the goal.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Red Sox should find a trade partner for Verdugo who will give up a top prospect and a right-handed bat with more HR pop.

 

Unlikely? Dec. 23, 2022: Toronto dealt for Arizona RF Dalton Varsho, who leads all outfielders with a 2.6 dWAR. He's also hitting .219 with a .663 OPS and 3.4 WAR overall.

 

For Varsho, the Jays traded catcher Gabe Moreno, who has 4.0 WAR in 101 games and Lourdes Gurriel, who has 2.7 WAR with 24 homers.

 

The GM who made that deal for the D-backs, who right now are headed to the postseason, is former (and future?) Red Sox exec Mike Hazen...

[sk7326]

The Red Sox should find a trade partner for Verdugo who will give up a top prospect and a right-handed bat with more HR pop.

 

Unlikely? Dec. 23, 2022: Toronto dealt for Arizona RF Dalton Varsho, who leads all outfielders with a 2.6 dWAR. He's also hitting .219 with a .663 OPS and 3.4 WAR overall.

 

For Varsho, the Jays traded catcher Gabe Moreno, who has 4.0 WAR in 101 games and Lourdes Gurriel, who has 2.7 WAR with 24 homers.

 

The GM who made that deal for the D-backs, who right now are headed to the postseason, is former (and future?) Red Sox exec Mike Hazen...

 

It'd be nice for South Shore League All Star Mike Hazen to come back. But he is also a single dad with 4-kids in school out there. I would not bet on it.

[mvp 78]

The thing with the farm rankings if you look over time is that it makes perfect sense for good teams to fall in the rankings ... if you graduate prospects or deal them for major league help, well of course. It'd be nice to be the Dodgers who don't seem to have such mortal team concerns, but everybody else has had to deal with that.

 

And it was definitely wild that Dombrowski hado to walk the plank for it less than a year after he delivered on the goal.

 

The Dodgers are a very good team, do they have a 30th ranked farm? The Astros?

[mvp 78]

It'd be nice for South Shore League All Star Mike Hazen to come back. But he is also a single dad with 4-kids in school out there. I would not bet on it.

 

Zero chance he's the CBO.

[Bellhorn04]

Why? been there done that, that's 2019 news. It doesn't matter why Dave was fired, why Dave was fired has little to do with 2023 and what the Sox want or think Bloom can do.

 

Bloom?

[sk7326]

The Dodgers are a very good team, do they have a 30th ranked farm? The Astros?

 

If you look at MLB.com, the Astros have not had a farm system ranked above 27th for a few years. Same with the Braves. The Cubs were 10th in 2013 and fell to 25th by 2017 - the year after they won the title. It'd be nice to have a constant stream of prospects and whatever ... but waves are not uncommon.

[moonslav59]

If you look at MLB.com, the Astros have not had a farm system ranked above 27th for a few years. Same with the Braves. The Cubs were 10th in 2013 and fell to 25th by 2017 - the year after they won the title. It'd be nice to have a constant stream of prospects and whatever ... but waves are not uncommon.

 

It will be interesting to see how the Braves and Astros do, after all their studs reach free agency.

 

They both have histories of letting some big names go.

 

If the pipeline is no longer top notch, and it seems like they are not, we should see them reach a point where they have to start from scratch, again.

 

The Astros have been trading prospects to fill some slots, even rentals like Vaz, and this should hasten that breaking point. (They probably wish they had Wilyer Abreu, right now.)

 

 

[Old Red]

Where were they, in the DSL? How many DSL guys get traded? What was Tanner Houck's value in 2019?

Oh those farm rankings that some on here cling to that are all over the map. I’ve seen some rate the Red 5th on here, and some rank the Red Sox 14th, or 16th like Pipeline. The farm system to me does two things, which are supplementing the big league club, or are traded for someone who does. Getting Sale, and Kimbrel were well worth it, and what they gave up most likely wouldn’t have made the team any better if they hadn’t got traded, so good for DD making the trades. DD could have traded Raffy. Now that would have been a bad one.

[Old Red]

Ranked 30th out of 30.

 

You gave have a farm ranking in the top 5, but that doesn’t mean that will translate to a winning big league club.

[Nick]

Oh those farm rankings that some on here cling to that are all over the map. I’ve seen some rate the Red 5th on here, and some rank the Red Sox 14th, or 16th like Pipeline. The farm system to me does two things, which are supplementing the big league club, or are traded for someone who does. Getting Sale, and Kimbrel were well worth it, and what they gave up most likely wouldn’t have made the team any better if they hadn’t got traded, so good for DD making the trades. DD could have traded Raffy. Now that would have been a bad one.

 

DD made the right call. He decided hot shot Moncada was expendable because of Devers. One of best trades we made to get Sale. The extension of Sale was the problem in hindsight.

 

Sale does have two more years to redeem himself. I think Sox will pick up his option in 2025 assuming he stays healthy all of 2024. Big if I know.

[moonslav59]

You gave have a farm ranking in the top 5, but that doesn’t mean that will translate to a winning big league club.

 

You keep saying that, and we know your position on "suspects."

 

I think, even you, realize a farm has a better chance at helping the big club win, when it is ranked 5-12 than 24-30th.

 

Everything in baseball is speculative- even vets. You do what you can to improve the team on paper and then hope it "TRANSLATES" to a winning bg league club.

 

Bloom failed miserably at building winning teams, the last 2 years. He's gone for not doing so.

 

He seems to have left a decent foundation for a 26 man roster (minus 3 major pitchers) and 40 man roster (minus a big RH'd bat and a solid LH'd RP.)

 

He seems to have left a much better farm than when he took over. Yes, lowly ranked farms can still produces guys like Bello, Houck, Duran & Casas, but that is rare, and even then, those 4 were the only real significant farm infusions from the summer of 2017 (Devers) to today, which is over 7 years.

 

Do you feel better having a strong arm on paper or a weaker one?

[Nick]

I'm just not freaking out over prospect of losing Verdugo.

 

His value right now is at all time high. He may garner a $10M Arbitration 3 figure. I really like Abreu to take his spot. Remember that everyone here thought no way in hell can Verdugo play right field. Funny how that works. (I don't see how Duran as an example can not get better)

 

From gathering "core group" to go get the next World Series title, Abreu makes more sense to me.

 

CC Wong, 5 years

CC McGuire, 2 years

1B Casas, 5 years

2B Reyes, 4 years

SS Story, 5 years (including option)

3B Devers, 10 years

LF Abreu, 6 years

CF Duran, 5 years

RF Rafaela, 6 years

DH Yoshida, 4 years

 

By all means, sign Duvall and Turner to supplant the core group above, even STARTING them over our youngsters.

 

My point is we have a core group going forward with good team controlled years ahead. The goal for new GM obviously is to UPGRADE these guys when someone better is available.

 

I am NOT MARRIED TO THE GUYS ON MY CORE LIST. IT'S MERELY A STARTING POINT. I THINK IT'S A PRETTY GOOD ONE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF TEAM CONTROLLED YEARS.

 

Now go get some starting pitching.

[moonslav59]

DD made the right call. He decided hot shot Moncada was expendable because of Devers. One of best trades we made to get Sale. The extension of Sale was the problem in hindsight.

 

Sale does have two more years to redeem himself. I think Sox will pick up his option in 2025 assuming he stays healthy all of 2024. Big if I know.

 

As it turned out, keeping Devers, Houck, Duran, Casas, Bello, Rafaela and a few others over Moncada, Kopech, margot, Espinoza and 15 or more others, looks stunningly good. It took us a few years to know it, for sure, and the jury is still out on some of his prospects off to a nice start, and it will take years to give Bloom a final grade on his arm (and foundation left.)

[Old Red]

I'm just not freaking out over prospect of losing Verdugo.

 

His value right now is at all time high. He may garner a $10M Arbitration 3 figure. I really like Abreu.

 

From gathering "core group" to go get the next World Series title, Abreu makes more sense to me.

 

CC Wong, 5 years

CC McGuire, 2 years

1B Casas, 5 years

2B Reyes, 4 years

SS Story, 5 years (including option)

3B Devers, 10 years

LF Abreu, 6 years

CF Duran, 5 years

RF Rafaela, 6 years

DH Yoshida, 4 years

 

By all means, sign Duvall and Turner to supplant the core group above, even STARTING them over our youngsters.

 

My point is we have a core group going forward with good team controlled years ahead. The goal for new GM obviously is to UPGRADE these guys when someone better is available.

 

I am NOT MARRIED TO THE GUYS ON MY CORE LIST. IT'S MERELY A STARTING POINT. I THINK IT'S A PRETTY GOOD ONE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF TEAM CONTROLLED YEARS.

 

Now go get some starting pitching.

I don’t believe Dugy’s value is at an all time high at all, and really just the opposite. Being on his last arb year I don’t think is appealing to any team, and he has really tailed off the second half of the season.

[Nick]

If they hire me to run the team, I will turn into DD when it comes to FA.

 

No doubters, overpay them if you must.

 

I will get the starting pitchers I need. That is my mandate, pretty similar to the one DD got when he was hired on the heels of 3 last place finishes in 4 years.

[Nick]

I don’t believe Dugy’s value is at an all time high at all, and really just the opposite. Being on his last arb year I don’t think is appealing to any team, and he has really tailed off the second half of the season.

 

You are probably correct.....then why extend him?

[moonslav59]

I'm just not freaking out over prospect of losing Verdugo.

 

His value right now is at all time high. He may garner a $10M Arbitration 3 figure. I really like Abreu to take his spot. Remember that everyone here thought no way in hell can Verdugo play right field. Funny how that works. (I don't see how Duran as an example can not get better)

 

From gathering "core group" to go get the next World Series title, Abreu makes more sense to me.

 

CC Wong, 5 years

CC McGuire, 2 years

1B Casas, 5 years

2B Reyes, 4 years

SS Story, 5 years (including option)

3B Devers, 10 years

LF Abreu, 6 years

CF Duran, 5 years

RF Rafaela, 6 years

DH Yoshida, 4 years

 

By all means, sign Duvall and Turner to supplant the core group above, even STARTING them over our youngsters.

 

My point is we have a core group going forward with good team controlled years ahead. The goal for new GM obviously is to UPGRADE these guys when someone better is available.

 

I am NOT MARRIED TO THE GUYS ON MY CORE LIST. IT'S MERELY A STARTING POINT. I THINK IT'S A PRETTY GOOD ONE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF TEAM CONTROLLED YEARS.

 

Now go get some starting pitching.

 

Bloom left a solid core of everyday players and a nice pen. (I'd put Duran in LF, Rafaela in CF and Abreu in RF, but that is just me.

 

The list of positional players on the farm looks impressive, too.

 

Not all will work out, but we should have enough depth at everyday positions to fill a line-up out, nicely.

 

The D should improve without adding anyone.

 

The O may get worse without JT and Duvall, but with a healthy Story and additions like Rafaela, Abreu and full seasons from Urias and Reyes, maybe we can stay about the same. (We could also bring back Duvall or add some other big RH'd bat.)

 

It's the rotation that is killing our future hopes.

[Old Red]

You keep saying that, and we know your position on "suspects."

 

I think, even you, realize a farm has a better chance at helping the big club win, when it is ranked 5-12 than 24-30th.

 

Everything in baseball is speculative- even vets. You do what you can to improve the team on paper and then hope it "TRANSLATES" to a winning bg league club.

 

Bloom failed miserably at building winning teams, the last 2 years. He's gone for not doing so.

 

He seems to have left a decent foundation for a 26 man roster (minus 3 major pitchers) and 40 man roster (minus a big RH'd bat and a solid LH'd RP.)

 

He seems to have left a much better farm than when he took over. Yes, lowly ranked farms can still produces guys like Bello, Houck, Duran & Casas, but that is rare, and even then, those 4 were the only real significant farm infusions from the summer of 2017 (Devers) to today, which is over 7 years.

 

Do you feel better having a strong arm on paper or a weaker one?

Like I keep saying farm rankings are all over the map, so I don’t put much faith in them. Of course you guys always pick the higher ones instead of like Pipeline who has the Red Sox at 16th. Like I’ve always said to me prospects/suspects are useless until they produce in a Red Sox uniform, or are traded for someone who does. Casas, Bello, Raf Man, and Abreu are now producing in a Red Sox uniform, so great. I’ve never been against making the farm rankings better as long as it’s not at the expense of the big league club, and I have stated it before.

[Old Red]

You are probably correct.....then why extend him?

 

I don’t know if I would extend Dugy, but I also aren’t counting on Duran, Raf Man, or Abreu at this point either to be good ML players. They need to get someone who they know what he is. Risky to count on all three next year.

[Nick]

I don’t know if I would extend Dugy, but I also aren’t counting on Duran, Raf Man, or Abreu at this point either to be good ML players. They need to get someone who they know what he is. Risky to count on all three next year.

 

I am good with adding veterans on short term deals.

[Nick]

Like I keep saying farm rankings are all over the map, so I don’t put much faith in them. Of course you guys always pick the higher ones instead of like Pipeline who has the Red Sox at 16th. Like I’ve always said to me prospects/suspects are useless until they produce in a Red Sox uniform, or are traded for someone who does. Casas, Bello, Raf Man, and Abreu are now producing in a Red Sox uniform, so great. I’ve never been against making the farm rankings better as long as it’s not at the expense of the big league club, and I have stated it before.

 

Red, I respect you.

 

For me it's not about the rankings but the players themselves that are showing up. Sure the list I gave may not work out but it's better than few years back. Nothing is a sure thing when it come to pre-arbitration guys.

[Tedballgame]

No one wants Sale. It would be easier to get rid of herpes…

 

Bloom could have traded him and all of his salary last year and couldn't pull the trigger. That, and the blowing of the trade deadline for the last 2 years are the main reasons he was fired.

[Old Red]

Bloom could have traded him and all of his salary last year and couldn't pull the trigger. That, and the blowing of the trade deadline for the last 2 years are the main reasons he was fired.

 

It all added up, but the last two years of being a losing last place in the division team was the main reason.