Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

What is wrong with a starting outfield of Rafaela in RF, Duran in CF, Abreu in LF with Yoshida as DH/OF(Util) in 2024? Keep Refsnyder and trade Verdugo and don't compete to sign Duvall to a multi-year contract starting at age 35. Saves money for pitching, which is our greatest need.

 

Duran is not a good defensive CF'er, but it might be better than Abreu in RF and Duran in LF (Raf in CF.)

[notin]

What is wrong with a starting outfield of Rafaela in RF, Duran in CF, Abreu in LF with Yoshida as DH/OF(Util) in 2024? Keep Refsnyder and trade Verdugo and don't compete to sign Duvall to a multi-year contract starting at age 35. Saves money for pitching, which is our greatest need.

 

Not understanding the Verdugo Hate…

[Bellhorn04]

Not understanding the Verdugo Hate…

 

Some of it is the Contract Year Stigma.

[moonslav59]

Some of it is the Contract Year Stigma.

 

We've lost too many players for just comp picks.

 

I would not mind seeing us extend Dugo and keep him around, but trading him for a helpful piece might work, too.

 

No hate.

[notin]

Some of it is the Contract Year Stigma.

 

We had one call to extend him and then trade him…

[Larry Cook]

We've lost too many players for just comp picks.

 

I would not mind seeing us extend Dugo and keep him around, but trading him for a helpful piece might work, too.

 

No hate.

 

There is a lot of noise about verdugo being a clubhouse cancer. Maybe it is time for him to get a fresh start elsewhere.

 

Plus we need two good starters and a lefty reliever

[a700hitter]

There is a lot of noise about verdugo being a clubhouse cancer. Maybe it is time for him to get a fresh start elsewhere.

 

Plus we need two good starters and a lefty reliever

I think he is a goner.

[moonslav59]

We had one call to extend him and then trade him…

 

No. I said that in response to you saying we should trade Duran, because he has more years of control.

 

One could ask why you hate Duran.

[moonslav59]

I think he is a goner.

 

Me 2.

[Hugh2]

To me, getting rid of Verdugo is just bonkers.

 

I get the “we’ll just get something for him instead of nothing”

 

You’re not getting nothing. You’re getting draft pick compensation PLUS one whole year of Verdugo. And that is a lot more valuable than Ref/Abreu in RF.

 

Running two rookies out there and a young Duran who may or may not turn into a Pumpkin is a massive risk. That outfield could really suck. Both offensively and defensively.

 

Verdugo isn’t the sexiest player, but he’s a f***ton better than anything in the free agent market next year. Aside from maybe Cody Bellinger, who set to benefit vastly from an empty FA class on the position side.

[Hugh2]

L-R

 

Duran LF

Rafaela CF

Dugo RF

 

And retaining Duval is a really nice outfield. Throw Yoshid on DH (at least 50% of the time) and add some pitching (high end) and your team is a LOT better next year.

[mvp 78]

To me, getting rid of Verdugo is just bonkers.

 

I get the “we’ll just get something for him instead of nothing”

 

You’re not getting nothing. You’re getting draft pick compensation PLUS one whole year of Verdugo. And that is a lot more valuable than Ref/Abreu in RF.

 

Running two rookies out there and a young Duran who may or may not turn into a Pumpkin is a massive risk. That outfield could really suck. Both offensively and defensively.

 

Verdugo isn’t the sexiest player, but he’s a f***ton better than anything in the free agent market next year. Aside from maybe Cody Bellinger, who set to benefit vastly from an empty FA class on the position side.

 

He’s an asset that is gone after next season. They think trading him for a prospect or a pitcher will bring them more longterm value.

[moonslav59]

Here is how Soxprospects.com projects next year's roster:

 

C: Wong & McGuire

1B: Casas

2B: Reyes & Urias

SS: Story

3B: Devers

LF: Duran & Refsnyder

CF: Duvall signed & Rafaela

RF: Verdugo

DH: Yoshida

 

SP: Bello, Sale, Crawford, Paxton signed, Acquisition, Acquisition

RP: Jansen, Martin, Wink, Houck, Whitlock, Pivetta, Schreiber, Murphy, Bernardino

 

(Trade candidates: Mata & Joely)

 

AAA

C: Scott

1B: Kavadas

2B: Yorke

SS: DHam

3B: Meidroth

LF: Rosier

CF: Abreu

RF: Dalbec

DH: EValdez

SP: Walter, Drohan, Gambrell, Van Belle, Hagenman

RP: Kelly, Jacques, Robertson, Guerrero, Polito, RFern, Zeferjahn

[Nick]

Duran is not a good defensive CF'er, but it might be better than Abreu in RF and Duran in LF (Raf in CF.)

 

Neither was Verdugo in right. You do realize Duran has the athleticism to get better? Unlike Yoshida?

[Nick]

Here is how Soxprospects.com projects next year's roster:

 

C: Wong & McGuire

1B: Casas

2B: Reyes & Urias

SS: Story

3B: Devers

LF: Duran & Refsnyder

CF: Duvall signed & Rafaela

RF: Verdugo

DH: Yoshida

 

SP: Bello, Sale, Crawford, Paxton signed, Acquisition, Acquisition

RP: Jansen, Martin, Wink, Houck, Whitlock, Pivetta, Schreiber, Murphy, Bernardino

 

(Trade candidates: Mata & Joely)

 

AAA

C: Scott

1B: Kavadas

2B: Yorke

SS: DHam

3B: Meidroth

LF: Rosier

CF: Abreu

RF: Dalbec

DH: EValdez

SP: Walter, Drohan, Gambrell, Van Belle, Hagenman

RP: Kelly, Jacques, Robertson, Guerrero, Polito, RFern, Zeferjahn

 

Why would we want Paxton? He ended up on the injured list. He is broken down. This is what Sox needs to get away from. Sign healthy players.

[Nick]

Geez, it's all about business.

 

It took Verdugo's fifth, team controlled year to finally be productive, offensively and defensively. Negative is whatever it is that Cora always has to set him down for a fireside chat. I'm going to ignore that aspect.

 

I don't see much of drop off playing Abreu. He can hit. He sees the ball, he puts the barrel to the ball. Some guys just do that.....

 

He is under team control for six years beginning in 2024. In theory, he has four years and in his fifth year to match Verdugo's stats from this year, mostly at a minimum wage.

 

Use the savings towards PITCHING. That is what is all about with the Sox right now.

 

SHIFT THE f***ING FUNDS TO PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING. We've already saved $10M by getting rid of a narcissist. That money will help pay for Devers new contract.

[Nick]

AMOUNT UNDER THE CAP FOR 2024

 

$103M LA Dodgers

$ 80M Atlanta Braves

$ 70M Houston Astros

 

$ 80M Boston Red Sox

$ 40M NY Yankees

$215M Baltimore Orioles

$ 96M Toronto Blue Jays

 

I don't list Tampa because they won't spend money.

 

This is what we're up against. We will need to break the first threashhold to keep up with the Jones. Good luck.

And this is why we don't sign players such as Paxton. Bundle the money and spend it on QUALITY, HEALTHY PLAYERS.

 

ps. Yankees are in bad shape.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Nick

[sk7326]

The team needs to upgrade the pitching and defense ... and I do think they should give real runways for Rafaela and Abreu to play. I am not looking for a full teardown - but lean more into the kids. But - as most of the autopsies of the Bloom era have pointed out - this team as-is would have been a playoff contender if the team just spent resources on pitching!

[sk7326]

AMOUNT UNDER THE CAP FOR 2024

 

$103M LA Dodgers

$ 80M Atlanta Braves

$ 70M Houston Astros

 

$ 80M Boston Red Sox

$ 40M NY Yankees

$215M Baltimore Orioles

$ 96M Toronto Blue Jays

 

I don't list Tampa because they won't spend money.

 

This is what we're up against. We will need to break the first threashhold to keep up with the Jones. Good luck.

And this is why we don't sign players such as Paxton. Bundle the money and spend it on QUALITY, HEALTHY PLAYERS.

 

ps. Yankees are in bad shape.

 

Yankees need a young'in to pop next season for sure.

[Randy Red Sox]

Geez, it's all about business.

 

It took Verdugo's fifth, team controlled year to finally be productive, offensively and defensively. Negative is whatever it is that Cora always has to set him down for a fireside chat. I'm going to ignore that aspect.

 

I don't see much of drop off playing Abreu. He can hit. He sees the ball, he puts the barrel to the ball. Some guys just do that.....

 

He is under team control for six years beginning in 2024. In theory, he has four years and in his fifth year to match Verdugo's stats from this year, mostly at a minimum wage.

 

Use the savings towards PITCHING. That is what is all about with the Sox right now.

 

SHIFT THE f***ING FUNDS TO PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING. We've already saved $10M by getting rid of a narcissist. That money will help pay for Devers new contract.

 

I am pretty sure the new GM will focus on pitching but I just hope it's YOUNG SP. Price and Sale have shown us the downside of signing 30ish SP to long term contracts. GO FULL OUT on Yamamoto and try and trade for one of the young Marlins SP.

[moonslav59]

Why would we want Paxton? He ended up on the injured list. He is broken down. This is what Sox needs to get away from. Sign healthy players.

 

This is soxprospects.com's projection- not mine.

 

I'm not sure why they list bringing Duval and Paxton back.

[moonslav59]

Neither was Verdugo in right. You do realize Duran has the athleticism to get better? Unlike Yoshida?

 

Yes, Duran did get better, and someday, maybe even during 2024, he might be a plus in CF, but Rafaela is already a huge plus on D in CF, so I'd want Duran to prove he can, first, and not pencil him into CF, right now.

[moonslav59]

The team needs to upgrade the pitching and defense ... and I do think they should give real runways for Rafaela and Abreu to play. I am not looking for a full teardown - but lean more into the kids. But - as most of the autopsies of the Bloom era have pointed out - this team as-is would have been a playoff contender if the team just spent resources on pitching!

 

If there is one thing Bloom has done for the next GM, it was to simplify the task at hand:

 

We need 2-3 SP'ers.

 

All the rest are minor needs.

 

I'd give runways to Rafaela and Abreu, too, but we do need one vet in reserve, "just in case." That could be Verdugo, or IMO Duval (and trade Verdugo or Duran.)

[moonslav59]

I am pretty sure the new GM will focus on pitching but I just hope it's YOUNG SP. Price and Sale have shown us the downside of signing 30ish SP to long term contracts. GO FULL OUT on Yamamoto and try and trade for one of the young Marlins SP.

 

I agree on all in for Yamamoto, plus he is apparently good friends with Yoshida, so maybe he can help Yoshi acclimate better to MLB, and vice versa.

 

I'm also on board with trading for the second solid SP'er, because the only young FA SP'er is Julio Urias- NO THANKS!

 

Here are the next youngest SP'ers on the market: (ages per spotrac)

27.9 Flaherty

28.1 Brad Keller

29.2 Giolito

29.5 S Lugo & Severino

30.2 Nola

30.5 ERod

30.7 Montgomery

30.8 Snell

31.7 Lorenzen

32.3 Wacha & Heany

32.5 Stroman

32.8 Clevinger

33.8 Gray & K Hendricks

33.9 Stripling

34.8 Paxton

35.4 Kershaw

35.8 Gibson

36.0 Cobb

36.4 Lynn

37.7 Cueto

39.9 Morton

 

Signing an older guy to a shorter deal, or a 32-34 guys to a high price 3-4 year deal might work. I don't see any under 30 guys that jump out at me, and the 30-31 year olds will likely get deals too long for my liking.

[Duran Is The Man]

If there is one thing Bloom has done for the next GM, it was to simplify the task at hand:

 

We need 2-3 SP'ers.

 

All the rest are minor needs.

 

I'd give runways to Rafaela and Abreu, too, but we do need one vet in reserve, "just in case." That could be Verdugo, or IMO Duval (and trade Verdugo or Duran.)

 

i think Dugo has peaked. he is what he is with no more upside. otoh, i think we have yet to see Duran's potential. with that in mind, i'd trade Dugo.

[Larry Cook]

The Japanese lhp inamaga should be signed by us this offseason.

Then if we sign a guy like snell, we could fill two huge holes in the rotation.

 

Next we got to have a quality left handed reliever. Not sure there is any free agent I really like. We have either Duran or verdugo as a trade chip plus some impressive prospects

[notin]

The Japanese lhp inamaga should be signed by us this offseason.

Then if we sign a guy like snell, we could fill two huge holes in the rotation.

 

Next we got to have a quality left handed reliever. Not sure there is any free agent I really like. We have either Duran or verdugo as a trade chip plus some impressive prospects

 

Shota Imanaga isn’t a starting pitcher.

 

Now he might fill the need for a LHRP..

[notin]

i think Dugo has peaked. he is what he is with no more upside. otoh, i think we have yet to see Duran's potential. with that in mind, i'd trade Dugo.

 

I am going to make the assumption that you do not know Verdugo is only 4 months older than Duran. (It’s ok to not know that; I didn’t until I looked it up.)

 

But keeping that in mind, why would the Sox trade the far more-talented player who will have much less trade appeal (due to salary and only having one year of control left) and hang on to the cheaper, fringey player who has never been able to hang on in MLB until this year?

 

I think Duran has potential to be a very exciting offensive player. I have doubts about his limited defensive development and think he is a bottom tier CF (which someone has to be) and probably best left out of right field altogether.

 

It makes no sense to me to say “the Sox need to act like a large market team”, and then dump Verdugo for the lesser, cheaper player. That’s a small market move.

 

Extend Verdugo. Trade Duran. A small market will give up an arbitration-eligible (re: getting pricey) starting pitcher for a package built around him.

 

Or is all this because Verdugo missed two games for coach suspension and is therefore a “clubhouse cancer”? Don’t overreact to that…

Edited September 17, 2023 by notin

[Larry Cook]

Shota Imanaga isn’t a starting pitcher.

 

Now he might fill the need for a LHRP..

 

If Hang’em Chaim is still here. Then we would have shota starting!!!

 

But if he is a lefty reliever, then let’s sign as soon as possible.

 

We sign snell as one starter for next year.

 

For a second starter, I think we look to Miami and a possible trade situation.

[notin]

If Hang’em Chaim is still here. Then we would have shota starting!!!

 

But if he is a lefty reliever, then let’s sign as soon as possible.

 

We sign snell as one starter for next year.

 

For a second starter, I think we look to Miami and a possible trade situation.

 

And trade for Juan Soto!!