6/19 @ Land of 10,000 Mistakes

[notin]

I'd have to vote for Bobby V.

 

Darrell Johnson bugged the s*** out of me with his petty favoritism crap.

 

Joe Morgan just threw stuff at the wall to see if it would stick. I think he had his kid make out the line-up one day.

 

Kerrigan barely was here long enough to judge much.

 

No picking on Joe Morgan!! His hunches brought nothing but smiles to my face!!

 

What other manager had the guts to pinch run for .350- hitting Mike Greenwell with light/hitting Kevin Romine in the 6th inning with the Sox down 6-0? Seemed crazy at the time. Until 3 innings later when Romine crushed the game-winning walk off home run!

[illinoisredsox]

His numbers in the minors right now are ridiculous. I imagine someone takes a shot on him. He could have finally figured it out, he could be an AAAA player. Jury is definitely still out. He is about to turn 28, so hes getting close to make or break for his career.

 

I just don't see him getting another shot in Boston, short of some multiweek injury to Casas. Sox have moved on from him.

[Jasonbay44]

Actually, I think I'm the only "people" defending Cora regularly. And for me it's simple why I do. He managed the best Sox team in 123 seasons of their existence. He definitely had great players that season, 2018, but they also won a lot of 1 run games. Then MLB banned him from the 2020 season, and the Sox rehired him without batting any eye. I thought his managing in the 2021 postseason was terrific, especially with no closer.

 

This season, as I've said, Cora is managing a team whose payroll is ranked 15th, which is the lowest ranking (by a wide margin) of the John Henry era and probably of the last 50 years. And I am not unaware that the best two AL East teams, Tampa and Baltimore, both have much smaller payrolls than the Sox. Nevertheless, what Cora is being asked to do is unprecedented for a Sox manager. The injuries to Duvall, Story, Sale, Houck, Schreiber, Chang, et al, only add to his burden.

He does deserve credit for the pitching mess he has been handed this year. Like I said the only criticisms of him were the loyalty to Kike at SS, who clearly isn't good there and for some reason he seemed to have a weird loyalty to putting Brasier into high leverage situations, when he's been very bad for a few years now. Overall, I don't really blame him for any of the pitching moves. He didn't sign any of these bad relief pitchers and he can't pitch the same 2-3 guys every day and has to manage the pitching for the long run.

 

He isn't a problem at all and he's done a fine job, but you can still occasionally criticize someone with a move that is questionable and isn't working out.

[Jasonbay44]

I just don't see him getting another shot in Boston, short of some multiweek injury to Casas. Sox have moved on from him.

 

I don't see it happening either. I think someone will trade for him though. I can't imagine his value his high with his MLB track record and Sox seem to view him as an afterthought.

[notin]

I don't see it happening either. I think someone will trade for him though. I can't imagine his value his high with his MLB track record and Sox seem to view him as an afterthought.

 

Dalbec has two skills that will appeal to several teams.

 

1. He can hit LHP

2. He makes the league minimum.

[moonslav59]

Dalbec has two skills that will appeal to several teams.

 

1. He can hit LHP

2. He makes the league minimum.

 

Just how much is a short end of a platoon DH worth, though?

 

If he could just be decent on D at 1B and close to decent at 3B, he'd have more value.

 

As part of a package, he might be the added piece that gets a deal done. I doubt we get anything of great promise 1 for 1.

[notin]

Just how much is a short end of a platoon DH worth, though?

 

If he could just be decent on D at 1B and close to decent at 3B, he'd have more value.

 

As part of a package, he might be the added piece that gets a deal done. I doubt we get anything of great promise 1 for 1.

 

And I doubt including him in a larger deal has any effect other than opening a 40 man roster spot

[Nick]

Well sure... if you want to cloud the narrative with facts.

 

I was half kidding bit factually where was I wrong?

[Bellhorn04]

Actually, I think I'm the only "people" defending Cora regularly. And for me it's simple why I do. He managed the best Sox team in 123 seasons of their existence. He definitely had great players that season, 2018, but they also won a lot of 1 run games. Then MLB banned him from the 2020 season, and the Sox rehired him without batting any eye. I thought his managing in the 2021 postseason was terrific, especially with no closer.

 

This season, as I've said, Cora is managing a team whose payroll is ranked 15th, which is the lowest ranking (by a wide margin) of the John Henry era and probably of the last 50 years. And I am not unaware that the best two AL East teams, Tampa and Baltimore, both have much smaller payrolls than the Sox. Nevertheless, what Cora is being asked to do is unprecedented for a Sox manager. The injuries to Duvall, Story, Sale, Houck, Schreiber, Chang, et al, only add to his burden.

 

I'm probably the biggest Cora fanboy on this forum. I hardly ever criticize a single thing he does. I think he's about as good as you can ask for.

[Bellhorn04]

I was half kidding bit factually where was I wrong?

 

It's preposterous to blame Cora for Kluber or Pivetta sucking. The one criticism that has merit is sticking with Kike too long at SS. But even that was a situation not created by Cora, and it wasn't totally unreasonable to think that a good second baseman like Kike could play SS.

[notin]

I just don't see him getting another shot in Boston, short of some multiweek injury to Casas. Sox have moved on from him.

 

An injury to Casas might just have a different trickle down. Turner to 1b, Yoshida to DH, Dunn/Duran/Verdugo to full time OF.

 

Not seeing a need for Dalbec…

[notin]

Just how much is a short end of a platoon DH worth, though?

 

If he could just be decent on D at 1B and close to decent at 3B, he'd have more value.

 

As part of a package, he might be the added piece that gets a deal done. I doubt we get anything of great promise 1 for 1.

 

I don’t think the idea was to get back a lot here…

[Bellhorn04]

Eovaldi being younger than Eovaldi is what makes his contract such a steal.

 

"I was so much older then

I'm younger than that now."

 

Bob Dylan

[notin]

Eovaldi being younger than Eovaldi is what makes his contract such a steal.

 

Too bad he was so much older last year…

[Maxbialystock]

He does deserve credit for the pitching mess he has been handed this year. Like I said the only criticisms of him were the loyalty to Kike at SS, who clearly isn't good there and for some reason he seemed to have a weird loyalty to putting Brasier into high leverage situations, when he's been very bad for a few years now. Overall, I don't really blame him for any of the pitching moves. He didn't sign any of these bad relief pitchers and he can't pitch the same 2-3 guys every day and has to manage the pitching for the long run.

 

He isn't a problem at all and he's done a fine job, but you can still occasionally criticize someone with a move that is questionable and isn't working out.

 

Without being snotty--which I know very well I can be--I do think most if not all of Cora's moves make sense when you dig into them.

 

Like Brasier. I think he was a candidate for the dud liberation movement, so Cora simply gave him opportunities to demonstrate why he needed to be freed.

 

I also think Cora makes an effort to ensure that everyone on that 26 man roster gets opportunities to show what he can do--probably with Chaim Bloom's backing.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Maxbialystock

[Maxbialystock]

An injury to Casas might just have a different trickle down. Turner to 1b, Yoshida to DH, Dunn/Duran/Verdugo to full time OF.

 

Not seeing a need for Dalbec…

 

Agree. With Duvall back, Cora has tons of outfielders: Duran, Duvall, Dugo, Refsnyder, and Yoshida. Three bat lefty and two righty. I continue to be amazed whenever Yoshida plays LF (vice DH) because the other four are all better defensively. Of course, if Yoshida does DH, then Cora's got a problem with who plays 1b, Turner or Casas.

[Dipre]

Agree. With Duvall back, Cora has tons of outfielders: Duran, Duvall, Dugo, Refsnyder, and Yoshida. Three bat lefty and two righty. I continue to be amazed whenever Yoshida plays LF (vice DH) because the other four are all better defensively. Of course, if Yoshida does DH, then Cora's got a problem with who plays 1b, Turner or Casas.

 

Good problem to have if you ask me. And it's hard to sit Casas or Yoshida right now, who are having some really quality AB's.

[illinoisredsox]

Without being snotty--which I know very well I can be--I do think most if not all of Cora's moves make sense when you dig into them.

 

Like Brasier. I think he was a candidate for the dud liberation movement, so Cora simply gave him opportunities to demonstrate why he needed to be freed.

 

I also think Cora makes an effort to ensure that everyone on that 26 man roster gets opportunities to show what he can do--probably with Chaim Bloom's backing.

 

If you don't use your back-ups occasionally, they can't be ready to contribute if needed due to injury, not to mention the regulars will be on fumes come August and September.

 

Don Zimmer was the poster child for not playing back-ups, which I still consider the major factor in the Sox collapse in 1978. Jim Rice started all 163 games that year. He was a big strong kid and could handle it, but many of the others couldn't. Carlton Fisk played in 157 games, but the insane part was he caught in 154 games and started 151 games behind the plate. Rick Burleson played in 145 games, missing 16 in July due to an injury. So he played in 145 (starting 144) of a possible 147 games he was available for. It was like that up and down the line-up and when the back-ups did play, they weren't ready.

[moonslav59]

And I doubt including him in a larger deal has any effect other than opening a 40 man roster spot

 

As long as Turner and Casas stay healthy, Dalbec gets no PAs on the big club for 2 years, so yes. The benefit we get is an open 40 man slot.

 

Another team might start him on the big club, the day after they get him, or at least platoon him.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think the idea was to get back a lot here…

 

Depends what the second or third pieces are, but yes, Dalbec alone won't bring back much.

[notin]

As long as Turner and Casas stay healthy, Dalbec gets no PAs on the big club for 2 years, so yes. The benefit we get is an open 40 man slot.

 

Another team might start him on the big club, the day after they get him, or at least platoon him.

 

He has Platoon Appeal.

 

I threw a request on here and BTV to deal him to Cincy for Kevin Newman, a goof glove/no hit SS who got displaced by Uber-prospect Matt McLain, but still drew a salary.

 

I could see a deal like that. Nothing Earth-shattering. Salary dumps or A-ball players. That’s what Dalbec gets you…

[notin]

Depends what the second or third pieces are, but yes, Dalbec alone won't bring back much.

 

Any large deal you try to rack Dalbec on the end of is equally appealing (or unappealing) without him. The Guardians GM isn’t going to hold back on a Bieber trade unless Dalbec is included…

[moonslav59]

Agree. With Duvall back, Cora has tons of outfielders: Duran, Duvall, Dugo, Refsnyder, and Yoshida. Three bat lefty and two righty. I continue to be amazed whenever Yoshida plays LF (vice DH) because the other four are all better defensively. Of course, if Yoshida does DH, then Cora's got a problem with who plays 1b, Turner or Casas.

 

The bigger problem is who sits, Turner or Casas? I want both playing, everyday. Maybe give Casas a few extra days "of rest" vs lefties, so righties Turner, Ref and Duvall have a place to play, without sitting lefties Yoshida or Dugo.

 

I could see Duran and Casas alternating days off when we face a lefty.

 

v L

CF Duvall or Duran

LF Yoshida or Duvall

DH Turner of Yoshida

1B Casas or Turner

 

Turner or Duvall have to sit v RHPs, if Duran plays against every RH's SP'er (This is a nice problem to have but is not ideal- both should be playing FT.)

v R

CF Duran

LF Yoshida or Duvall

DH Turner or Yoshida

1B Casas

 

 

[moonslav59]

Any large deal you try to rack Dalbec on the end of is equally appealing (or unappealing) without him. The Guardians GM isn’t going to hold back on a Bieber trade unless Dalbec is included…

 

Yes, I know that. My thought is something like Dalbec & Pivetta for a slightly better SP'er.

 

Dalbec and one of Lugo/Bonaci/Hamilton/Koss for a prospect who is included with several others in another deal for Bieber or the like.

[moonslav59]

Good problem to have if you ask me. And it's hard to sit Casas or Yoshida right now, who are having some really quality AB's.

 

Or Duran.

[moonslav59]

In many ways it is nice to see we are having a problem finding room for so many good players to get a chance to play, and it does show Bloom doesn't get every signing or trade wrong, but we really needed pitching, IMO. (That is now looking like maybe he got that right, too, despite the horrific Kluber signing.)

 

If you go straight by the numbers, which even a stat geek like me would never suggest, here are the splits of the players involved in the logjam, and this is before Story returns.

 

Devers plays everyday at 3B.

Reyes plays everyday at SS, until Story returns.

Arroyo and Kike share 2B with maybe Valdez added to the mix, if we trade Kike or Arroyo.

Catcher is not platooned, except for maybe a few game choices, here and there.

 

5 Positions to fill: DH, 1B, LF, CF, RF (RED= Must play everyday v this split)

2023/Career

Vs RHP

1.088/.757 Duvall- small sample size- could sit a game here and there

.900/.823 Verdugo- a lock v R

.872/.746 Duran- should start vs every RHP, unless he slumps

.861/.861 Yoshida- has to start v all RHPs

.730/.752 Casas- room for some days off but not a platoon

.728/.832 Turner- room to have a few days off v R

.657/.670 Kike- out of the conversation in CF v R

.520/.623 Ref- sorry, no starts v R

Yoshida, Dugo and Duran should start everyday v R, so that leaves two slots open: to me, Turner should play everyday, but I can't sit Casas v R, either, so Duvall looks like the odd man out. Maybe all 3 share time off v R. Sitting one, every 3 games v R is not really fair to either one. Maybe a trade breaks the logjam, but who? Duran? Duvall? Casas? Dugo?

 

Vs LHPs

1.000/775 Duvall- small sample but needs to start v every L

.987/.771 Ref- lock to start v every L

.978/.826 Turner- lock to start?

.809/.809 Yoshida- really needs to play FT

.720/.680 Casas- probably should sit v all LHPs and some RHPs

.718/.685 Dugo- hard to sit him any day, but maybe he could "rest" more v L

.659/.813 Kike- does not have to improve his O to squeeze Duran out, but Duvall wins.

.618/.503 Duran- should be platooned

The top 4 seem like locks: Duvall, Ref, Turner and Yoshida, so one slot is open. I'm pretty sure Cora is locked into keeping Dugo FT, and I can't see starting Casas over Dugo, but if Kike heats up, he might squeeze into some time in the OF v L. (See Kike at 2B, below)

 

FYI:

Catcher: Massive reverse splits, this year

v R

.841 Wong (116 PA)

.605 McGuire (100)

v L

1.122 McGuire (14 PA)

.558 Wong (55 PA)

 

2B

v R

.739 Valdez

.657 Kike

.623 Arroyo

v L

.659 Kike

.623 Arroyo

(.986 Reyes/.830 Chang)

 

[notin]

Yes, I know that. My thought is something like Dalbec & Pivetta for a slightly better SP'er.

 

Dalbec and one of Lugo/Bonaci/Hamilton/Koss for a prospect who is included with several others in another deal for Bieber or the like.

 

Dalbec and Pivetta is worse for the other team than just Pivetta. Unless they need a cheap RHH K-machine, this deal means the other team gives up one 40 man roster spot for two.

 

Any deal for Bieber or deal for something for Bieber will NOT include Dalbec. I posted the BTV minor overpay of Rafaela and Yorke for Bieber. That might not be the actual price, but it won’t be less than that…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Dalbec and Pivetta is worse for the other team than just Pivetta. Unless they need a cheap RHH K-machine, this deal means the other team gives up one 40 man roster spot for two.

 

Any deal for Bieber or deal for something for Bieber will NOT include Dalbec. I posted the BTV minor overpay of Rafaela and Yorke for Bieber. That might not be the actual price, but it won’t be less than that…

 

Chaimpathetical, to Tito: "If we throw in Dalbec, you can keep Bieber, as long as you substitute one of your other starters currently on the IL..."

[Dipre]

Or Duran.

 

.885 OPS in June.

[Tedballgame]

Duran error is going to cost Whitlock a lot of extra pitches.