Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[notin]

Sheesh, what a grinch (I suppose those don't exist, either).

 

Google "unicorn lunch box" and then try telling all those kids that carry them that their hands are actually empty...

 

I can promise you every single one of those children just ate those box contents themselves, unable to find even a single unicorn to feed that lunch to…

[notin]

Clear backpacks so we can see if they are bring guns or knives to school.

 

Or unicorn lunch boxes! Back when those things were made of sheet metal and came with a thermos that was essentially a 4” PVC pipe but with only a 1/2” hole down the middle for your shot of chocolate milk, those things were wieldy weapons in the right hands…

[vegasbob]

Lots of talk going on about what to do with 6 or 7 starting pitchers, who should stay/who should go to the pen or just away. Why not let Paxton actually pitch about 3 times and see if he can get to the 5 inning threshhold effectively before shuffling the rest of the deck.

 

I know that routine on a 5 day schedule is key for many pitchers , so disrupting Sale or maybe Kluber's cycles needs accomodation but a missed turn or even a piggyback for Houck/Whitlock ( when ready) isn't out of the question for 2 weeks. Bello, if necessary, could travel to Worcester to keep in rotation . Pivetta could be skipped once also. Finally, a real decision on Houck/Whitlock and the bullpen should get done .

 

The point is that there is no way to accurately know just how ready or capable Paxton is. Normally, it would be a good problem to have this many starters available but somehow the individuals involved make it a crapshoot.

[Maxbialystock]

Lots of talk going on about what to do with 6 or 7 starting pitchers, who should stay/who should go to the pen or just away. Why not let Paxton actually pitch about 3 times and see if he can get to the 5 inning threshhold effectively before shuffling the rest of the deck.

 

I know that routine on a 5 day schedule is key for many pitchers , so disrupting Sale or maybe Kluber's cycles needs accomodation but a missed turn or even a piggyback for Houck/Whitlock ( when ready) isn't out of the question for 2 weeks. Bello, if necessary, could travel to Worcester to keep in rotation . Pivetta could be skipped once also. Finally, a real decision on Houck/Whitlock and the bullpen should get done .

 

The point is that there is no way to accurately know just how ready or capable Paxton is. Normally, it would be a good problem to have this many starters available but somehow the individuals involved make it a crapshoot.

 

I'm anti-Paxton, but I like your logic. Give him a shot. Right now, I'd probably drop Pivetta and keep Sale, Kluber, Houck, and Bello. But your approach could also work.

[moonslav59]

I'm anti-Paxton, but I like your logic. Give him a shot. Right now, I'd probably drop Pivetta and keep Sale, Kluber, Houck, and Bello. But your approach could also work.

 

Maybe the best part of a Paxton success story would be the ability to move someone (Whitlock?) to the pen as a long man to pair with the Winkman.

[Old Red]

Lots of talk going on about what to do with 6 or 7 starting pitchers, who should stay/who should go to the pen or just away. Why not let Paxton actually pitch about 3 times and see if he can get to the 5 inning threshhold effectively before shuffling the rest of the deck.

 

I know that routine on a 5 day schedule is key for many pitchers , so disrupting Sale or maybe Kluber's cycles needs accomodation but a missed turn or even a piggyback for Houck/Whitlock ( when ready) isn't out of the question for 2 weeks. Bello, if necessary, could travel to Worcester to keep in rotation . Pivetta could be skipped once also. Finally, a real decision on Houck/Whitlock and the bullpen should get done .

 

The point is that there is no way to accurately know just how ready or capable Paxton is. Normally, it would be a good problem to have this many starters available but somehow the individuals involved make it a crapshoot.

 

Quantity does not always equal quality, and I think this is the case. Just keeping 5 healthy starters at the same time may be the biggest challenge.

[vegasbob]

Maybe the best part of a Paxton success story would be the ability to move someone (Whitlock?) to the pen as a long man to pair with the Winkman.

 

Agreed, and a successful Paxton would force this to happen. Cora and Bloom have been reluctant to disclose their thinking because, like us, they are not sure what Paxton will bring to the party. It's BYOB, bring your own baseball.

[moonslav59]

Agreed, and a successful Paxton would force this to happen. Cora and Bloom have been reluctant to disclose their thinking because, like us, they are not sure what Paxton will bring to the party. It's BYOB, bring your own baseball.

 

They may not know, just yet, who they may send to the pen, too. The next starts by some pitchers might play into the choice.

[d-money]

Anyone remember eduardo rodriguez? ERod. Dude’s pitching like Cy Young for detroit go figure.

[mvp 78]

Nick Pivetta last 5 starts:

24.2 IP

8.39 ERA

6.12 FIP

1.62 WHIP

1 QS

24 K

10 BB

38 GameScore

 

The average Pivetta start:

5 IP

4 ER

5 K

2 BB

1 HR

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/wins.aspx?date=2023-04-28&team=Red%20Sox&dh=0

 

At some point, is it good enough if you're pushing someone else to the pen?

[moonslav59]

Nick Pivetta last 5 starts:

24.2 IP

8.39 ERA

6.12 FIP

1.62 WHIP

1 QS

24 K

10 BB

38 GameScore

 

The average Pivetta start:

5 IP

4 ER

5 K

2 BB

1 HR

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/wins.aspx?date=2023-04-28&team=Red%20Sox&dh=0

 

At some point, is it good enough if you're pushing someone else to the pen?

 

The sad thing is, he's about the same as other SP'ers over the whole season.

 

The last 5 starts are very worrisome. If he does poorly, his next start, it might be his slot Paxton takes.

[Hugh2]

Anyone remember eduardo rodriguez? ERod. Dude’s pitching like Cy Young for detroit go figure.

 

Yeah, he had a bunch of great runs for us too, problem was he could never do it for the long haul. He's good, but he aint' a #1.

[Old Red]

Anyone remember eduardo rodriguez? ERod. Dude’s pitching like Cy Young for detroit go figure.

 

I mentioned this last week, and now in his last 41.2 innings he’s given up 2 ER with 41 K’s. Like I said the last time last year it looked good not to resign him, but not so much this year. His nifty 1.57 ERA ain’t bad either. No not a #1, but good enough.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Old Red

[Hugh2]

People used to be so frustrated with Erod when he was here, and he was GOOD when he was here, just not great and had a hard time going more than 6.

 

Grass is always greener I suppose. He is off to a good start to be fair.

[moonslav59]

People used to be so frustrated with Erod when he was here, and he was GOOD when he was here, just not great and had a hard time going more than 6.

 

Grass is always greener I suppose. He is off to a good start to be fair.

 

He was a winner here. He had some run support luck, at times, but it happened so often, that I have to believe he had a knack for keeping us in games.

 

Team record in his starts with Sox:

19-4 in 2018 (the rest: 82-50)

26-8 in 2019 (the rest: 58-70)

 

2018-2019 combined: 45-12 (The rest: 140-130)

 

[moonslav59]

Some cherry-picked trending...

 

Kluber 6.29 ERA

5.52 in 6 games after opener

3.86 last 3 (scary FIP of 5.28)

 

Sale 6.37 ERA

5.01 since his first start

2.92 last 2 starts (1.62 FIP)

 

Houck 5.26 ERA

5.23 since first start (3.60 FIP)

4.76 last start (yes, that's reaching)

 

Bello 5.71 ERA

3.68 since first start (5.09 FIP)

2.70 last 2 starts (4.62 FIP)

 

Pivetta has declined.

 

[Hugh2]

Some cherry-picked trending...

 

Kluber 6.29 ERA

5.52 in 6 games after opener

3.86 last 3 (scary FIP of 5.28)

 

Sale 6.37 ERA

5.01 since his first start

2.92 last 2 starts (1.62 FIP)

 

Houck 5.26 ERA

5.23 since first start (3.60 FIP)

4.76 last start (yes, that's reaching)

 

Bello 5.71 ERA

3.68 since first start (5.09 FIP)

2.70 last 2 starts (4.62 FIP)

 

Pivetta has declined.

 

 

I'm actually surprised by Bello seeing how some misplays really screwed up his last start.

[Nick]

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/05/nick-pivetta-doesnt-want-move-to-bullpen-but-red-sox-likely-considering-it.html

 

I've been off the computer ever since I alluded to this article.

 

My point was that it appears to me Pivetta thinks he's owed a spot in the starting rotation. But I disagree. He has to show it on the field.

 

The team is fighting for a playoff spot. I get it that we're only at the beginning of this journey.

 

Based on last year and with our injury situation, Cora and his team collected multiple starting arms. Paxton will start this Friday and Whitlock should return soon. That gives us seven starters.

 

We didn't sign Kluber to NOT to start. The same goes for Paxton. I'm as anxious as Cora to see what we have in Paxton. I doubt either goes to the pen, at least not now. They would have to pitch themselves to the pen by faltering as a starter. I think Pivetta is very close to that.

 

My guess is things will work itself out but Pivetta should be more concerned about his own performance. Right now, Houck has better stats. Sox will NOT give up on Whitlock until it's proven he can't do it. Bello maybe sent down but won't be if he's pitching better than Pivetta.

 

It's all about the team and I don't give a damn what Pivetta thinks. Like the article says, he's been very mediocre for almost a year now.

 

JUST f***IN PITCH BETTER.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Nick

[Maxbialystock]

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/05/nick-pivetta-doesnt-want-move-to-bullpen-but-red-sox-likely-considering-it.html

 

I've been off the computer ever since I alluded to this article.

 

My point was that it appears to me Pivetta thinks he's owed a spot in the starting rotation. But I disagree. He has to show it on the field.

 

The team is fighting for a playoff spot. I get it that we're only at the beginning of this journey.

 

Based on last year and with our injury situation, Cora and his team collected multiple starting arms. Paxton will start this Friday and Whitlock should return soon. That gives us seven starters.

 

We didn't sign Kluber to NOT to start. The same goes for Paxton. I'm as anxious as Cora to see what we have in Paxton. I doubt either goes to the pen, at least not now. They would have to pitch themselves to the pen by faltering as a starter. I think Pivetta is very close to that.

 

My guess is things will work itself out but Pivetta should be more concerned about his own performance. Right now, Houck has better stats. Sox will NOT give up on Whitlock until it's proven he can't do it. Bello maybe sent down but won't be if he's pitching better than Pivetta.

 

It's all about the team and I don't give a damn what Pivetta thinks. Like the article says, he's been very mediocre for almost a year now.

 

JUST f***IN PITCH BETTER.

 

Love the punch line.

 

Agree Pivetta should be guaranteed nothing. I count 8 starters including Crawford, and I agree with you that Kluber should continue if only because he's been almost decent in his last 3 starts.

 

Agree Paxton should be given a shot. To do that, Cora can drop someone out--like Pivetta--or go with a 6 man rotation for awhile.

[Nick]

Love the punch line.

 

Agree Pivetta should be guaranteed nothing. I count 8 starters including Crawford, and I agree with you that Kluber should continue if only because he's been almost decent in his last 3 starts.

 

Agree Paxton should be given a shot. To do that, Cora can drop someone out--like Pivetta--or go with a 6 man rotation for awhile.

 

 

 

Here's Cora's comment per MLB.com

 

There could be a lot of deliberating in the coming days.

 

“There's a lot of stuff that comes into play,” said Cora. “And it's not only my decision, it’s the organization’s decision of what we’re going to do, putting everything on balance and seeing what benefits us now and in the future. We'll all sit down, we’ll talk about it. There’s going to be people that are thrilled they're going to be in the rotation, and others are going to be upset.

 

“At the same time, you’ve got a job to do, and you’ve got to get people out and you’ve got to contribute for us to get to where we want to go. So that's part of this.”

 

I'm not trying to be an ass.....this is a business.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Nick

[moonslav59]

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/05/nick-pivetta-doesnt-want-move-to-bullpen-but-red-sox-likely-considering-it.html

 

I've been off the computer ever since I alluded to this article.

 

My point was that it appears to me Pivetta thinks he's owed a spot in the starting rotation. But I disagree. He has to show it on the field.

 

The team is fighting for a playoff spot. I get it that we're only at the beginning of this journey.

 

Based on last year and with our injury situation, Cora and his team collected multiple starting arms. Paxton will start this Friday and Whitlock should return soon. That gives us seven starters.

 

We didn't sign Kluber to NOT to start. The same goes for Paxton. I'm as anxious as Cora to see what we have in Paxton. I doubt either goes to the pen, at least not now. They would have to pitch themselves to the pen by faltering as a starter. I think Pivetta is very close to that.

 

My guess is things will work itself out but Pivetta should be more concerned about his own performance. Right now, Houck has better stats. Sox will NOT give up on Whitlock until it's proven he can't do it. Bello maybe sent down but won't be if he's pitching better than Pivetta.

 

It's all about the team and I don't give a damn what Pivetta thinks. Like the article says, he's been very mediocre for almost a year now.

 

JUST f***IN PITCH BETTER.

 

I'm still not sure what he said that set you off.

 

Sounds like what every pitcher says after a bad night or bad few nights in a row.

 

If he wanted to go to the pen, I'd be more concerned.

 

Just about every Sox starter has pitched poorly enough to consider pen duty, but some are never going to be considered (Sale.)

[Nick]

Moon I suggest you read Cora's comments.

 

I'm just surprised Pivetta doesn't think he's part of 'auditioning'.

[moonslav59]

The choice of who is sent to the pen or AAA should be based on a few things, including how each pitcher has looked in his last 2-4 starts, options remaining (although I hope and don't think this doesn't lead to a Bello demotion), as well as who might be a better fit for the pen, or even who's psyche is better suited to handle a demotion to the pen.

 

It's obvious Pivetta is pitching the worst of the 5, but he has also been the most durable and consistent starter on the Sox for over 2 years. I doubt that is enough to tip the balance to picking someone else.

 

By the time Paxton pitches and the next 4 starts afterwards, we will have a chance to see one more start from the "candidates," or if Paxton gets drilled, maybe we let all 5 start one more time, before Paxton's next start.

 

Usually, one might think it's a good choice to have 6 guys to choose from, but in our case, it's trying to choose the lesser of 6 evils.

[moonslav59]

Moon I suggest you read Cora's comments.

 

I'm just surprised Pivetta doesn't think he's part of 'auditioning'.

 

I read them all.

 

I'm talking about what Pivetta said. I want all my starters thinking they are good enough to keep starting, even when they suck.

[Nick]

I read them all.

 

I'm talking about what Pivetta said. I want all my starters thinking they are good enough to keep starting, even when they suck.

 

I prefer Sale's approach. "I SUCKED".

 

6 innings, 2 runs, a quality start. What is Bello going to learn pitching in AAA?

 

“And it's not only my decision, it’s the organization’s decision of what we’re going to do, putting everything on balance and seeing what benefits us now and in the future.".....My guess is this is why Bello, Whitlock and Houck are all in the mix. Pivetta is under team control only through 2024.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Nick

[moonslav59]

I prefer Sale's approach. "I SUCKED".

 

6 innings, 2 runs, a quality start. What is Bello going to learn pitching in AAA?

 

“And it's not only my decision, it’s the organization’s decision of what we’re going to do, putting everything on balance and seeing what benefits us now and in the future.".....My guess is this is why Bello, Whitlock and Houck are all in the mix. Pivetta is under team control only through 2024.

 

I'm not for demoting Bello to AAA or even the pen. To me, he's the 2nd best starter in the rotation, or tied with Houck for that slot. (Sale is #1.)

 

Kluber has been doing better since his first start and much better his last 3 starts.

 

The 5 slot is Paxton vs Pivetta, and to me, Paxton need to prove he's better, which should not be too hard, right now.

 

If Paxton gets shelled, I'm not convinced Pivetta to the pen is the right move.

 

I'm also not for making big decisions based one one Paxton start, but I do think he deserves a shot. Ideally, he should start in the pen and earn a starting slot, but he's not a RP'er, so I wouldn't mess with that.

 

It's not an easy call, but I'd give Paxton a few starts. Maybe go with 6 starters for 1 or 2 times through, or just put Pivetta in the pen, now.

 

I do worry we might be messing up our most durable and consistent pitcher in 2 years, by moving him to relief, but I see not better choice.

[Old Red]

Good stuff, and a good outing by Bello tonight, against a very good hitting team. Excellent infield D behind him tonight also.

[Maxbialystock]

I prefer Sale's approach. "I SUCKED".

 

6 innings, 2 runs, a quality start. What is Bello going to learn pitching in AAA?

 

“And it's not only my decision, it’s the organization’s decision of what we’re going to do, putting everything on balance and seeing what benefits us now and in the future.".....My guess is this is why Bello, Whitlock and Houck are all in the mix. Pivetta is under team control only through 2024.

 

I don't see the issue. Yes, Pivetta wants to keep starting, but that's not his decision and right now he is clearly 5th out of 5. Plus the Sox should give Paxton a shot. So Cora has a choice of moving Pivetta to the bullpen or using him as a sixth starter. Since the Sox are paying him $5M+ this year, he's clearly a liability.

[moonslav59]

I don't see the issue. Yes, Pivetta wants to keep starting, but that's not his decision and right now he is clearly 5th out of 5. Plus the Sox should give Paxton a shot. So Cora has a choice of moving Pivetta to the bullpen or using him as a sixth starter. Since the Sox are paying him $5M+ this year, he's clearly a liability.

 

Pivetta understands it's Cora & Co's call.

 

Of course he wants to keep starting. It's what you'd expect from any competitor.

 

I doubt he sulks.

 

I'm pretty sure, if he is sent to the pen, he will start, again, at some point, this season, unless he sucks in the pen, or the other 5 guys gel and stay healthy, all year. (LOL!)

Edited May 11, 2023 by moonslav59

[Hugh2]

I’m glad I stuck to my guns on Bello.

 

You could see his potential last night, he’s still very young and learning to pitch but he has that competitive edge you love to see on the mound.