A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Bellhorn04]

The shame with Eovaldi is that he has lived up to what we know of him. When he is healthy - he has been one of the league's better starting pitchers. But of course, we can see the complicating factor there.

 

A pretty high % of MLB pitchers have injury concerns.

[mvp 78]

The bottom line is Bloom ended up adding only the 88 MPH MAN Kluber to the rotation. As you have suggested yourself, this kind of penny-pinching is frustrating behavior for a rich franchise with demanding and currently disgruntled fans.

 

Yes, if they liked him enough to give him the offer in the first place, they probably should have sucked it up for 2023 and had Kluber AND Eovaldi in the rotation. Wow you went over? Imagine going over accidentally and getting a worse QO pick or something silly like that!

[mvp 78]

They did extend Devers and sign Jansen, so they have that going for them, which is great!

 

And Masa is pretty pretty pretty good...

[mvp 78]

We have yet to know if Bloom can...

 

We know the Sox can afford one...

 

But we don't even know if we can identify one...

 

Is Ohtani a good investment -- a guy whose pitching career could end suddenly in a number of ways that a non-batter/baserunner can't?

 

Is Urias a good investment -- about to enter his prime?

 

Is someone on the trading block worth four of our top prospects?

 

Trade and extension is the best way IMO.

[mvp 78]

Ohtani and Urias look like busts in the making to me. The first one because he won't justify the massive contract, specially when he ends up missing 1-2 seasons with the pitcher rite of passing (TJS). The second one because he's going to get way more money than his ability dictates, but that's just my opinion.

 

Need to pay a premium for Urias' cool glasses. He's probably a better bet than Ohtani though for what you are paying.

[Dipre]

Need to pay a premium for Urias' cool glasses. He's probably a better bet than Ohtani though for what you are paying.

 

Not with that K% and health history.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

A pretty high % of MLB pitchers have injury concerns.

 

The very nature of pitching a baseball is unnatural, throwing overhand with an appendage that grows underhand. Most MLB pitchers don't age well, and many tendons and ligaments at younger ages are already unwell...

 

... in this age of testing, when PEDs can no longer extend or create Hall of Fame careers -- feel free to fill in any and all names from those bygone days, when everyone was suspect (except Yankees, who only juiced because they were such good teammates).

[moonslav59]

Texas was the ONLY option he had. There were no other available offers. Sox pulled there offer off the table a long time before.

 

Are you sure there were no other offers or hopes for another one?

 

If that's true, I find it hard to blame one other GM interested in such a great pitcher for not matching the Rangers.

 

Are you sure, we just needed to match it? That 3rd year option looks pretty good.

[moonslav59]

We have yet to know if Bloom can...

 

We know the Sox can afford one...

 

But we don't even know if we can identify one...

 

Is Ohtani a good investment -- a guy whose pitching career could end suddenly in a number of ways that a non-batter/baserunner can't?

 

Is Urias a good investment -- about to enter his prime?

 

Is someone on the trading block worth four of our top prospects?

 

I do wonder, if they even considered Luis Castillo.

[moonslav59]

Attempts and a quarter get you a gumball.

 

Just saying, I don't think he just sat on his hands waiting to swoop in on Kluber.

[moonslav59]

Trade and extension is the best way IMO.

 

Yup. That has been my mantra.

[mvp 78]

Not with that K% and health history.

 

Prior to this season, he was great at limiting hard contact and had a low bb rate. May not have a high k rate, but that's the reason his xFIP is typically higher than his ERA. He's a good pitcher. I would feel more comfortable signing him to a deal than RODON. Urias' velo is down a little this year which is *interesting*. Ohtani's TJS is also in my notes.

 

Ohtani will most likely be overpaid. Both are likely to be injured. Urias is probably a little more budget friendly, but we'll see.

[mvp 78]

Are you sure there were no other offers or hopes for another one?

 

If that's true, I find it hard to blame one other GM interested in such a great pitcher for not matching the Rangers.

 

Are you sure, we just needed to match it? That 3rd year option looks pretty good.

 

He asked for the Sox' original offer. The Sox said no.

[moonslav59]

He asked for the Sox' original offer. The Sox said no.

 

The article I read does not definitively say that is what happened, but it sounded very believable.

 

Maybe Bloom was afraid signing him would put him past the tax line, but it doesn't look like it to me, assuming Nate and not Kluber, but it would have put us very close to it.

 

I'm not crying over losing Nate, just yet. More time is needed.

[Dipre]

Prior to this season, he was great at limiting hard contact and had a low bb rate. May not have a high k rate, but that's the reason his xFIP is typically higher than his ERA. He's a good pitcher. I would feel more comfortable signing him to a deal than RODON. Urias' velo is down a little this year which is *interesting*. Ohtani's TJS is also in my notes.

 

Ohtani will most likely be overpaid. Both are likely to be injured. Urias is probably a little more budget friendly, but we'll see.

 

The Rodon footnote is correct and noted. Otherwise, Urias' peripherals, velocity and statcast data all post a worrying picture (so far) to me. I'd hard pass on both.

[Bellhorn04]

Yup. That has been my mantra.

 

What you have to give up in prospects is pretty exorbitant, though. Personally I'd rather keep the prospects and sign a free agent or two.

[Bellhorn04]

What about notin's guy Giolito as a free agent?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The article I read does not definitively say that is what happened, but it sounded very believable.

 

Maybe Bloom was afraid signing him would put him past the tax line, but it doesn't look like it to me, assuming Nate and not Kluber, but it would have put us very close to it.

 

I'm not crying over losing Nate, just yet. More time is needed.

 

Also don't forget Eovaldi was publicly critical of Bloom's half-ass trade deadline... maybe Nate was miffed he didn't get moved to a contender.

[Hugh2]

What you have to give up in prospects is pretty exorbitant, though. Personally I'd rather keep the prospects and sign a free agent or two.

 

Especially when the team isn't good. Imagine adding Chris Sale to this team, what has it done for us this year? Sure, if we pull it together he's going to look nice at the top of the rotations and hopefully he's still "back" next year. But why strike when the Iron is cold?

 

FWIW, next years FA class looks pretty good for pitchers. There's some intriguing names.

[moonslav59]

What you have to give up in prospects is pretty exorbitant, though. Personally I'd rather keep the prospects and sign a free agent or two.

 

Sounds better, but rarely works out.

'

I will ay, our past success at identifying the right guy to trade for and giving up packages that have been fair or clear wins for us, even in hindsight, is no guarantee of future success.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Especially when the team isn't good. Imagine adding Chris Sale to this team, what has it done for us this year? Sure, if we pull it together he's going to look nice at the top of the rotations and hopefully he's still "back" next year. But why strike when the Iron is cold?

FWIW, next years FA class looks pretty good for pitchers. There's some intriguing names.

 

Any place is the standings is a good place to start with an ace starter. He can put a contender over the top, make a mediocre team a contender, and pull a bottom-dweller out of the cellar.

 

Stopper is the most important position on the field... and they mark his spot smack-dab in the middle of the diamond, centered and elevated above all others.

[mvp 78]

What you have to give up in prospects is pretty exorbitant, though. Personally I'd rather keep the prospects and sign a free agent or two.

 

You just have to believe that the Sox know which prospects to give up and which ones to hold on to.

[mvp 78]

What about notin's guy Giolito as a free agent?

 

For one year or to include an extension?

[Nick]

Corey Kluber to the Pen

 

Sox finally does the right thing.

 

One thing to consider is how committed Sox are to Whitlock as a starter. He's coming off an injury. We haven't seen him pitch but only 3 starts this year. There's no doubt baseball people are all in on him. Same goes for Bello and Houck.

 

We bitch and moan about not developing starting pitching. We go on and on about it.

 

But this is the most proven talent of young pitching we've had in a long time.

 

Yes I said it, PROVEN.

 

Bello, Houck and Whitlock looks to have the 'stuff', both physically and mentally, to get the job done.

 

They simply needed an opportunity. Now they can just concentrate on improving their craft.

 

My guess is at some point, Kutter will also get an opportunity to start. Maybe next year.

 

I'm elated.

 

OUR CORE GROUP IS BEGINNING TO EMERGE.

 

Sale

Bello

Whitlock

Houck

Winckowski

Schreiber

Crawford

 

Wong

Casas

Valdez

Story

Devers

Yoshida

Duran

 

Best news? I can turn on EVERY Sox game and watch a starter I enjoy watching. It's been awhile. (last time may have been Sale, Porcello, Eovaldi, Price and Edwards......I'm guessing they were the starters in 2018 after Eovaldi came on board?)

Edited May 24, 2023 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

For one year or to include an extension?

 

I meant as a free agent signing. But he could be traded for at this year's deadline and extended too.

[mvp 78]

I meant as a free agent signing. But he could be traded for at this year's deadline and extended too.

 

I'd rather acquire him early and extend than compete for him in FA. IF THAT'S THE GUY THEY REALLY WANT.

[moonslav59]

Corey Kluber to the Pen

 

Sox finally does the right thing.

 

 

Agreed, but I thought they announced a plan to go with one more start for the 6, then decide.

 

We do have a double header with TBR coming up and no day off for the 4 days prior, so we will need a 6th man or pen game, then.

[jad]

Corey Kluber to the Pen

 

Sox finally does the right thing.

 

One thing to consider is how committed Sox are to Whitlock as a starter. He's coming off an injury. We haven't seen him pitch but only 3 starts this year. There's no doubt baseball people are all in on him. Same goes for Bello and Houck.

 

We bitch and moan about not developing starting pitching. We go on and on about it.

 

But this is the most proven talent of young pitching we've had in a long time.

 

Yes I said it, PROVEN.

 

Bello, Houck and Whitlock looks to have the 'stuff', both physically and mentally, to get the job done.

 

They simply needed an opportunity. Now they can just concentrate on improving their craft.

 

My guess is at some point, Kutter will also get an opportunity to start. Maybe next year.

 

I'm elated.

 

OUR CORE GROUP IS BEGINNING TO EMERGE.

 

Sale

Bello

Whitlock

Houck

Winckowski

Schreiber

Crawford

 

Wong

Casas

Valdez

Story

Devers

Yoshida

Duran

 

Best news? I can turn on EVERY Sox game and watch a starter I enjoy watching. It's been awhile. (last time may have been Sale, Porcello, Eovaldi, Price and Edwards......I'm guessing they were the starters in 2018 after Eovaldi came on board?)

 

Left out Verdugo.

[Nick]

Left out Verdugo.

 

Verdugo is Arb 2 player with only one more year of team control.

 

He is Not in my core group unless he is extended.

[Nick]

So $1M per start for Kluber.

 

No freakin way the Rays would have done it. This is exactly why Kluber was availabe.

 

I just wished we stop pissing away money.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Nick