A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[moonslav59]

In isolation, it's mediocre. For a team with the Red Sox wealth and resources, coming off a 78-84 season, and an offseason where a lot of payroll room had opened up, it's less than mediocre.

 

Some of the payroll "opened up" was some big shoes to fill, and the odd thing is, we didn't spend "it all" (and still stay under.)

 

This team is certainly playing like mediocre- no complaints on that call.

 

The big Q is will we continue this way?

[Maxbialystock]

In isolation, it's mediocre. For a team with the Red Sox wealth and resources, coming off a 78-84 season, and an offseason where a lot of payroll room had opened up, it's less than mediocre.

 

Spoiled rotten. I could tell you such stories about 55 of the 86 years of the curse. Everything changed with the arrival of John Henry--with 4 WS wins and 2018 probably the best Sox season ever--so of course you expect more.

 

Me, I'm just happy I lived long enough for those 4 WS, to say nothing of the unbelievable advent of satellite dishes and getting all the Sox games in Fairfax County. Now I get them online and not as many thanks to the blackout rule. But I can still watch any game if I wait 90 minutes after it ends.

 

Curt Flood broke the reserve clause and changed MLB forever. Then the MLBPA came along and ensured that most contracts are guaranteed, so every big buy--a $250M or more contract--is a now a huge gamble. See Sale, Chris, who's about to get an MRI on his left shoulder. See too David Price, Trevor Story, and even Rafael Devers.

 

Or how about the great Mookie Betts, the one who got away? His WAR is an excellent 2.3, so good for the Dodgers. But Verdugo's WAR is 1.9, so even better for the Sox.

 

You want to spend the big bucks for massive contracts, and I absolutely do not.

[moonslav59]

At 29-27, we have the12th best record in MLB (tied with MIL & SEA.)

 

We are 1 game ahead of #18.

 

We are a 1/2 game from #9.

 

We are 4.0 behind the last WC slot (NYY & HOU) and TOR is 3.5 back.

 

Big series with the Rays. Time to heat things up!

 

[Nick]

At 29-27, we have the12th best record in MLB (tied with MIL & SEA.)

 

We are 1 game ahead of #18.

 

We are a 1/2 game from #9.

 

We are 4.0 behind the last WC slot (NYY & HOU) and TOR is 3.5 back.

 

Big series with the Rays. Time to heat things up!

 

 

It's becoming obvious that there are simply no gimmes on OUR schedule. A's maybe the lone exception.

 

News with Sale will determine which direction this team should be headed. It maybe time to clean house.

[Bellhorn04]

If we see Sale again in the next month or two it'll be a miracle. And if he's gone a long time, it's pretty much game over for 2023.

[Bellhorn04]

Spoiled rotten. I could tell you such stories about 55 of the 86 years of the curse. Everything changed with the arrival of John Henry--with 4 WS wins and 2018 probably the best Sox season ever--so of course you expect more.

 

I know you're older than me Max, but I've been with the Sox since the late Sixties myself, so I've got a lot of those same stories.

[Old Red]

I know you're older than me Max, but I've been with the Sox since the late Sixties myself, so I've got a lot of those same stories.

 

Me too. I kind of remember seeing Ted, but really remember starting off with Yaz, so I’ve been there since 1960, and have seen all kinds.

[moonslav59]

It's becoming obvious that there are simply no gimmes on OUR schedule. A's maybe the lone exception.

 

News with Sale will determine which direction this team should be headed. It maybe time to clean house.

 

It seems like too many years in a row, our fortunes have been tied to Chris Sale.

 

At the start of the season, I saw a path to the playoffs without Sale doing well, but it is hard to see a way, now.

[notin]

If we see Sale again in the next month or two it'll be a miracle. And if he's gone a long time, it's pretty much game over for 2023.

 

I think we knew this was a likelihood all along.

 

And could easily be the case in 2024 as well …

[dannycater]

At least they didn't sign Eavoldi, don' t want an ace like that on your roster.

[mvp 78]

On pace for 84 wins. So like 4 games out of WC. What a horrible team!

[Old Red]

On pace for 84 wins. So like 4 games out of WC. What a horrible team!

 

I’m not so sure that 84 wins might be good enough. Might take a playoff game though.

[mvp 78]

I’m not so sure that 84 wins might be good enough. Might take a playoff game though.

 

No, they won't reach the playoffs, but they'll be in the race at the beginning of September. That's more than we could say for the moribund 2022 Sox.

 

Hey, it could all still fall apart. This team has sucked at times, but overall it has been better than 2022.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It seems like too many years in a row, our fortunes have been tied to Chris Sale.

 

At the start of the season, I saw a path to the playoffs without Sale doing well, but it is hard to see a way, now.

 

Gotta feel bad for the front office, too. Sale was looking like a guy who could actually fetch someone's top 10 prospect at the trade deadline.

[Bellhorn04]

On pace for 84 wins. So like 4 games out of WC. What a horrible team!

 

Not horrible, just mediocre. The fact we have no shot at the playoffs is *partially* due to bad luck, in that there are simply too many good teams in the AL this year.

[mvp 78]

Not horrible, just mediocre. The fact we have no shot at the playoffs is *partially* due to bad luck, in that there are simply too many good teams in the AL this year.

 

Mediocre is better than what they were last year. I'll take mediocre!

[Bellhorn04]

I think we knew this was a likelihood all along.

 

And could easily be the case in 2024 as well …

 

Yeah, I guess Sale provides a reason to punt both 2023 and 2024. 2025 here we come...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think we knew this was a likelihood all along.

 

And could easily be the case in 2024 as well …

 

Sale on the IL is as likely as the sky is blue, Kike's shoes are green, and Mookie's last name is Who.

 

I'm sticking to my offseason call: this season (and next) hinges on watching a couple of under-30 pitchers improve and find their groove.

[Hugh2]

Yeah, I guess Sale provides a reason to punt both 2023 and 2024. 2025 here we come...

 

Sale should have no bearing on this team (at this precise point) for the following reason. The Sox just reset the luxury tax limit this year and if they blow past it next year. Let's just say hypothetically for those who don't think it's a likelihood that they are. By the time the Sox would want to reset again Sales money is off the books. It's no longer handicapping this team IF they wanted to spend. That's the question at hand though.....it really comes down to what John Henry wants to do. In my humble opinion, Henry should remember that he's the owner of big market team and if he builds a winner he will make plenty of money.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, I guess Sale provides a reason to punt both 2023 and 2024. 2025 here we come...

 

We're already punting on NEXT season even if we are staying under the CBT this year? WTH?

[notin]

Mediocre is better than what they were last year. I'll take mediocre!

 

78-84 isn’t mediocre?

[dannycater]

Not horrible, just mediocre. The fact we have no shot at the playoffs is *partially* due to bad luck, in that there are simply too many good teams in the AL this year.

 

Rationalizing horrible and bad, shrugging shoulders hey there are other teams either in same boat or there are teams that are just good enough to compete...all of this is a reflection of the Sox making one poor decision after another in player personnel. This is Bloom, this all Bloom...a Blooming Failure.

[moonslav59]

Rationalizing horrible and bad, shrugging shoulders hey there are other teams either in same boat or there are teams that are just good enough to compete...all of this is a reflection of the Sox making one poor decision after another in player personnel. This is Bloom, this all Bloom...a Blooming Failure.

 

Go through all the major decisions and tell me how many were wrong?

 

Kluber

Story, so far

Richards

JBJ

and???

 

[dannycater]

Come on Moon, he is terrible. Yeah, letting go of Eavoldi, and please stop if anyone says Justin Turner is an improvement on super hot now JD. Verdugo and his War stats v. Betts, who has a greater impact on his team? The team is tough to watch, they are not entertaining. Kike is not very good, and was signed. The Story signing is/was and still is a disaster. JBJ? Yeah, trading away Hunter was an abject failure. Kluber, yes horrible. Should I applaud him that he has the greatest catching tandem of Wong-McGuire? Clap, clap. Constantly relying on Sale, let's squeeze the lemon as far we can. Enough. And Casas and Dalbec, the kids, they suck and playing more kids who suck, great. They unloaded a talented group and some important clubhouse guys. They suck. Period. Sale said it best "I suck." Well, he didn't this year so far, but the team does. Lastly, the Sox act like they are a budget-strapped franchise with a salary cap. They aren't. Edited June 2, 2023 by dannycater

[mvp 78]

78-84 isn’t mediocre?

 

The record was mediocre, but that team felt worse than that. They had a lot of big names and just fell flat coming off the ALCS.

[mvp 78]

Come on Moon, he is terrible. Yeah, letting go of Eavoldi, and please stop if anyone says Justin Turner is an improvement on super hot now JD. Verdugo and his War stats v. Betts, who has a greater impact on his team? The team is tough to watch, they are not entertaining. Kike is not very good, and was signed. The Story signing is/was and still is a disaster. JBJ? Yeah, trading away Hunter was an abject failure. Kluber, yes horrible. Should I applaud him that he has the greatest catching tandem of Wong-McGuire? Clap, clap. Constantly relying on Sale, let's squeeze the lemon as far we can. Enough. And Casas and Dalbec, the kids, they suck and playing more kids who suck, great. They unloaded a talented group and some important clubhouse guys. They suck. Period. Sale said it best "I suck." Well, he didn't this year so far, but the team does. Lastly, the Sox act like they are a budget-strapped franchise with a salary cap. They aren't.

 

JD sucked for 2 years. Nobody was clamoring to bring him back. Stop it.

Betts wasn't coming back because Henry wasn't going to pay him.

Complaining about Dombrowski draft picks?

Important clubhouse guys? That's why they brought Justin Turner here! What even is staying on message?!?

[moonslav59]

Come on Moon, he is terrible. Yeah, letting go of Eavoldi, and please stop if anyone says Justin Turner is an improvement on super hot now JD. Verdugo and his War stats v. Betts, who has a greater impact on his team? The team is tough to watch, they are not entertaining. Kike is not very good, and was signed. The Story signing is/was and still is a disaster. JBJ? Yeah, trading away Hunter was an abject failure. Kluber, yes horrible. Should I applaud him that he has the greatest catching tandem of Wong-McGuire? Clap, clap. Constantly relying on Sale, let's squeeze the lemon as far we can. Enough. And Casas and Dalbec, the kids, they suck and playing more kids who suck, great. They unloaded a talented group and some important clubhouse guys. They suck. Period. Sale said it best "I suck." Well, he didn't this year so far, but the team does. Lastly, the Sox act like they are a budget-strapped franchise with a salary cap. They aren't.

 

I listed the 4 major failures.

 

I fully believe McGuire/Wong > Vaz/Plawecki, right now, and rate to be much better going forward.

Turner will pass JD in OPS, this year- book it.

Our OF is 20X better than last year's.

Our pen iks 20X better than last year's.

Replacing Nate, Wacha and Hill with Kluber and dreams of returning from IL pitchers was a major mistake.

I've commented on being tired of relying on Sale more than I care to admit.

 

Bloom & Co. have made plenty of mistakes, but saying one poor move after another is just plain wrong, IMO.

 

Yoshida

Jansen & Martin

Schreiber & Refsnyder

Valdez & Abreu for a washed up Vaz

Whitlock

(Last year: Wacha, Hill & Strahm.)

 

It's not one after another. It's one after every two good.

 

[Dipre]

The one thing I will say is that they're definitely working on a good, sustainable core. I think that if they can supplement that with a couple of smart signings on the pitching side of the ball, they could build a serious contender for '24. On the other hand, if Sale isn't done for the season, they could do some roster maneuvering before the TDL and still fight for a playoff spot this season. I'm not that down on this team.

[Bellhorn04]

Turner will pass JD in OPS, this year- book it.

 

It's fine to be an optimist, but promising that a guy is going to make up 172 points in OPS is ridiculous.

[Old Red]

It's fine to be an optimist, but promising that a guy is going to make up 172 points in OPS is ridiculous.

 

Agree, but this is from a guy who called Mookie a bum of a leadoff hitter the other day.