Red Sox Spring Training 2023

[notin]

Any time you have a new rule/law , people will look for ways to get around it. MLB may or may not look to close this loophole.

 

Teams seem fairly dedicated to this for some reason…

[Old Red]

I don’t think you get the point…

 

I I don’t think you do. I don’t believe the shift is a failure. I bet many ground ball have made it through the IF in a small sample size already that wouldn’t have last year. To me that’s a success. Of course I’m against the shift, and you are all for it. Another topic that was beaten to death on another thread.

[notin]

I I don’t think you do. I don’t believe the shift is a failure. I bet many ground ball have made it through the IF in a small sample size already that wouldn’t have last year. To me that’s a success. Of course I’m against the shift, and you are all for it. Another topic that was beaten to death on another thread.

 

I just said I was against making defensive strategies illegal.

 

This new rule allows for re-positioning outfielders exactly how they had infielders last year. And since teams didn’t position in the shift by accident, and clearly WANTED that defensive alignment, they’re going to do it again. I wouldn’t cite an absence of outfield shifts in spring training games as proof it won’t happen. That it’s happened at all in spring training means teams are thinking about it.

[moonslav59]

For one thing, the OF'er moving over is not the same alignment as the IF shift, but it does serve much of the same purpose.

 

It would also make having Kike in CF a bigger plus, as he can play 2B, well.

 

The LF wall in Fenway really helps the shift, since blasting one to LF will rarely end up being a triple with no LF'er.

 

My question is, can the modify the rule, now, or is it too late.

[Old Red]

I just said I was against making defensive strategies illegal.

 

This new rule allows for re-positioning outfielders exactly how they had infielders last year. And since teams didn’t position in the shift by accident, and clearly WANTED that defensive alignment, they’re going to do it again. I wouldn’t cite an absence of outfield shifts in spring training games as proof it won’t happen. That it’s happened at all in spring training means teams are thinking about it.

 

My main point that in the few games I have watched I have seen a number of ground balls get through the IF already that wouldn’t have last year, and I don’t believe even if teams bring an OF in it will be nowhere near as much as the IF shifting around on a pretty much constant basis.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s your go to for a psychoanalyst joke? That’s like needing a physician reference for a punchline, and settling on Dr. Dre…

 

Yes, but it was appropriate for the depth and quality of your analysis.

[Bellhorn04]

My main point that in the few games I have watched I have seen a number of ground balls get through the IF already that wouldn’t have last year, and I don’t believe even if teams bring an OF in it will be nowhere near as much as the IF shifting around on a pretty much constant basis.

 

I think you can both be right. notin is correct that teams are obviously still intent on ways to do things that Manfred and the fans don't want to see. So that's kind of a big deal, and I'll bet Manfred is already talking about whether a tweak is needed.

[Old Red]

I think you can both be right. notin is correct that teams are obviously still intent on ways to do things that Manfred and the fans don't want to see. So that's kind of a big deal, and I'll bet Manfred is already talking about whether a tweak is needed.

 

I get his point, but I just don’t think the shift has been a failure so far, and like I said I have seen a number of balls get through the IF already that wouldn’t have last year. Of course things could change once the real stuff starts.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Big day for Red Sox and fans marching towards '23: Chris Sale pitching in a baseball game!

 

Instead of a bullpen cart, the plan is to drive him to the mound in an armored car.

[Old Red]

Big day for Red Sox and fans marching towards '23: Chris Sale pitching in a baseball game!

 

Instead of a bullpen cart, the plan is to drive him to the mound in an armored car.

 

Can anyone tell me why it has taken so long for Frail to pitch in a game yet. None of his injuries from last year were arm related, so his arm is well rested. He should have been the first guy to pitch, and not the last. Let’s see what he’s got left if anything at all. No babying!

[notin]

Big day for Red Sox and fans marching towards '23: Chris Sale pitching in a baseball game!

 

Instead of a bullpen cart, the plan is to drive him to the mound in an armored car.

 

It doesn’t matter what type of vehicle takes him to the mound; just whether not not it’s an ambulance that takes him from it…

[moonslav59]

Can anyone tell me why it has taken so long for Frail to pitch in a game yet. None of his injuries from last year were arm related, so his arm is well rested. He should have been the first guy to pitch, and not the last. Let’s see what he’s got left if anything at all. No babying!

 

My guess only...

 

They know Sale is such a fierce competitor, may be they were trying to get his arm strengthened up before an actual game situation.

 

I'm not defending the move. I hope the rest of the spring is designed to have him ready for opening day.

[Old Red]

My guess only...

 

They know Sale is such a fierce competitor, may be they were trying to get his arm strengthened up before an actual game situation.

 

I'm not defending the move. I hope the rest of the spring is designed to have him ready for opening day.

 

He’s had more rest than anybody though.

[mvp 78]

Can anyone tell me why it has taken so long for Frail to pitch in a game yet. None of his injuries from last year were arm related, so his arm is well rested. He should have been the first guy to pitch, and not the last. Let’s see what he’s got left if anything at all. No babying!

 

Sox didn't have any of the starters go until the end of last week. I think they are going slow with all of them.

 

You can say "no babying" but all of these guys have injury risks. If there's a time to baby them it'd be early in ST.

[mvp 78]

He’s had more rest than anybody though.

 

So?

[Old Red]

So?

 

I guess I’ve just had enough, and are over anything Sale. Babying, or not babying had nothing to do with all his last year problems, so if he gets hurt pitching so be it, and to me no big loss.

[mvp 78]

I guess I’ve just had enough, and are over anything Sale. Babying, or not babying had nothing to do with all his last year problems, so if he gets hurt pitching so be it, and to me no big loss.

 

Wouldn't you rather him have a good season and the Sox win a few extra games?

[mvp 78]

So it sounds like Bello, Whitlock and Paxton will start season on DL. Not ideal

 

The rotation was created with question marks:

Sale - injury concerns/age/reduced velo

Kluber - age/injury concerns/reduced velo

Paxton - ALWAYS INJURED

Whitlock - had surgery in the offseason

Houck - had surgery in the offseason

Crawford/Winckowski - limited success last season

Bello - young and inexperienced

 

The plan as constructed has a high amount of risk! If everything goes wrong, this could be a staff pulled directly from Worcester. Not good! If it goes well, maybe they are in playoff contention? Maybe?

[mvp 78]

No Shift is already a failure because it’s still legal to move the CF to short RF where the 2b used to play in the old shift. This creates the exact scenario the league wanted to ban, but in a perfectly legal way…

 

It creates a much bigger risk for the defense though. Difference between giving up a single or a triple.

[Old Red]

Wouldn't you rather him have a good season and the Sox win a few extra games?

 

Yes I would, but I just don’t think the kid glove treatment will matter one way, or the other with him. Kluber has pitched 2 times already, and to me Sale should have done the same. I’m not expecting Sale even if healthy to be nowhere near the pitcher he once was, so I just don’t think it’s a big deal for any kind of success on how he’s treated. Just my opinion, and nothing else.

[moonslav59]

He’s had more rest than anybody though.

 

In terms of pitching in games, yes.

 

Like I said, I'm not defending the plan. I'm just trying to figure out the reasons.

[moonslav59]

Sox didn't have any of the starters go until the end of last week. I think they are going slow with all of them.

 

You can say "no babying" but all of these guys have injury risks. If there's a time to baby them it'd be early in ST.

 

Somebody has to be the last SP'er to get a chance, and maybe picking the guy who has been out for years is a logical choice.

[Old Red]

In terms of pitching in games, yes.

 

Like I said, I'm not defending the plan. I'm just trying to figure out the reasons.

 

Like I said I’m just over anything Sale. I was against the extension DD gave him when it happened, so I guess seeing how things have turned out with him has clouded my opinion. Not much bang for the bucks either.

[mvp 78]

Yes I would, but I just don’t think the kid glove treatment will matter one way, or the other with him. Kluber has pitched 2 times already, and to me Sale should have done the same. I’m not expecting Sale even if healthy to be nowhere near the pitcher he once was, so I just don’t think it’s a big deal for any kind of success on how he’s treated. Just my opinion, and nothing else.

 

Kluber pitched all of last season. I don't think there are really any health concerns for him. With Sale, he hasn't had a normal season in a very long time. I don't think it's unreasonable to treat this ST a little differently for Sale.

[mvp 78]

Like I said I’m just over anything Sale. I was against the extension DD gave him when it happened, so I guess seeing how things have turned out with him has clouded my opinion. Not much bang for the bucks either.

 

It's a bad extension. We have to live with it. The only way to make it work is to figure out how to get the most out of him. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Old Red]

Kluber pitched all of last season. I don't think there are really any health concerns for him. With Sale, he hasn't had a normal season in a very long time. I don't think it's unreasonable to treat this ST a little differently for Sale.

 

I don’t think it’s unreasonable treatment, but to me with all the off time he has had I don’t see giving him a little more time will make any difference, and I would have put him out there earlier just to see where he stood health wise. Just a different way of doing things.

[moonslav59]

Like I said I’m just over anything Sale. I was against the extension DD gave him when it happened, so I guess seeing how things have turned out with him has clouded my opinion. Not much bang for the bucks either.

 

I thought the extension was okay, and figured even if he missed one full year, it would be worth it, if he remained Chris Freakin' Sale. Sadly, he has not, so far, but I am not writing this guy off.

 

I still think he can come close to what he was, if he can just stay healthy. His more recent injuries are not related to the arm, so that's somewhat encouraging, but it is way past time he starts doing something.

[mvp 78]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable treatment, but to me with all the off time he has had I don’t see giving him a little more time will make any difference, and I would have put him out there earlier just to see where he stood health wise. Just a different way of doing things.

 

Just look at all the injuries piling up around the league. Time off doesn't mean they are simply "rested." It's more like they've been sitting in mothballs.

[notin]

It creates a much bigger risk for the defense though. Difference between giving up a single or a triple.

 

True, but that’s really always been the case. We’ve seen bunt hits go for doubles with the old alignment.

 

I figured teams would just move the SS to one inch left of second base, but the use of the CF in short right has the same effect as the old shift…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Just look at all the injuries piling up around the league. Time off doesn't mean they are simply "rested." It's more like they've been sitting in mothballs.

 

I have a Grade 1 strain of my hamhocks overtyping about it.