JBJ DFAed

[moonslav59]

I heard they were asking for two little league prospects and got no takers.

 

Did we offer to pay some or most of his contract?

[sk7326]

Too bad. Bradley won't be making the Red Sox HoF, but he has more ALCS MVPs than most people on earth. He was a terrific outfielder who provided JUST enough offense - usually through about a month worth of tantalizing hot streaks a season - to be a solid starting CF.

 

But the bat died and got mutilated beyond any sort of utility and this is what you get.

[moonslav59]

Those would be the inadequate players that he brought north from camp like Dalbec and Franchy and numerous pitchers in the pen and the rotation who don’t belong on any major league roster, and whose fault was it for bringing north such inadequate players.

 

I'm fine with anyone complaining about Bloom waiting too long to find a 1Bman, and even rare May/early June deals do get done from time to time, but I really think the winter/spring plan to have Dalbec and Shaw start the year at 1B with a ML ready and top prospect like Casas waiting in the wings was not a flawed plan. My guess is most GMs would not have touched 1B with so many other pressing holes to be filled over the winter.

 

No doubt, Dalbec's record of extreme droughts and hot streaks were concerning, but IMO, he did seem to be improving on D, last year and came on very strong the final 2-3 months of the season. He also had a decent first year, although the sample was small.

 

With 6-8 gaping holes at other positions, and a limited winter spending budget, what GM looks to replace a player who posted these numbers in his first 156 games (545 PAS)? Some might have expected improvement possible.

 

.244 33 94 (.819 OPS)

 

Yes, the 195 K's are frightening, and a close eye and possible short leash would be understandable, but the guy started off slowly, last year, too, and Cora's patience paid off in spades.

 

BTW, maybe some remember his hot streak being short, but his cold streak was shorter.

 

.595 first 45 games (173 PAs)

.709 middle 45 games (145 PAs)

1.114 last 41 games (139 PAs)

 

.684 first 66 games (242 PAs)

.914 last 67 games (215 PAs)

 

Cherry-picking sample sizes, I know, but still...

.916 his last 280 PAs

.847 his last 324 PAs

.805 his last 404 PAs

 

The kid deserved a look... a long look in 2022.

 

Travis Shaw had shown serious decline since 2021, but he did look pretty good, back with the Sox, in a tiny 48 PA sample size.

 

The kicker was Casas starting out slowly and then getting hurt.

 

I get the criticism about waiting too long to make a move, but I don't think a move should have been made in early May or maybe even early June or late June, but that was when Casas went on the IL.

 

Pitching depth and RF were and are still open season, IMO.

 

[moonslav59]

Too bad. Bradley won't be making the Red Sox HoF, but he has more ALCS MVPs than most people on earth. He was a terrific outfielder who provided JUST enough offense - usually through about a month worth of tantalizing hot streaks a season - to be a solid starting CF.

 

But the bat died and got mutilated beyond any sort of utility and this is what you get.

 

I'll always remember JBJ fondly. I don't blame him for signing a bloated deal and being put in the line-up long past his expiration date.

 

I'll never accuse him of not trying hard.

 

Great D- always.

[Oscars]

A brilliant fielder who I will always remember fondly, particularly for his ALCS contribution in 2018.

[vegasbob]

Those would be the inadequate players that he brought north from camp like Dalbec and Franchy and numerous pitchers in the pen and the rotation who don’t belong on any major league roster, and whose fault was it for bringing north such inadequate players.

 

Well that would be the Bloomin' Onion wouldn't it. Let's just hope that this 2/3rds season, clubhouse mea culpa meeting and Trade Deadline mini-moves mark the lowpoint of the current Sox FO. Better days and rosters must surely be ahead

[moonslav59]

Well that would be the Bloomin' Onion wouldn't it. Let's just hope that this 2/3rds season, clubhouse mea culpa meeting and Trade Deadline mini-moves mark the lowpoint of the current Sox FO. Better days and rosters must surely be ahead

 

2020 was the low point. Not even close.

 

Okay, if not having Cora in 2020 means it wasn't this FO, then it was the killing by the Yanks that was the low point- not a few minor trades made at the deadline. (IMO)

[Old Red]

Bloom supposedly according to some on here didn’t have many options in the players he got back in the Mookie deal, so I take it that JBJ must have been the only option in the Renfroe deal? Maybe a different GM would have better options.

[sk7326]

Well that would be the Bloomin' Onion wouldn't it. Let's just hope that this 2/3rds season, clubhouse mea culpa meeting and Trade Deadline mini-moves mark the lowpoint of the current Sox FO. Better days and rosters must surely be ahead

 

I think this is a little dramatic. More than anything though, there are real questions about exactly "What are We Trying to Accomplish Here" as an organization which is very hard to suss right now.

[sk7326]

Bloom supposedly according to some on here didn’t have many options in the players he got back in the Mookie deal, so I take it that JBJ must have been the only option in the Renfroe deal? Maybe a different GM would have better options.

 

I think the options were very small on the Mookie deal particularly once the team decided that moving Price was a key part of it. The trade was good considering it was "The David Price Salary Dump featuring Mookie Betts". But they did not really handle the Betts as a trade chip particularly well relative to the massive haul the Nats got for a great but inferior player. That said, there is an extra year of control with Soto which is very important. It is hard not to have a tear roll down the cheek when you realize that the team dealt Mookie Betts in exchange for precisely zero All-Star upside.

[moonslav59]

When a GM has several conflicting priorities that have changed from 2020 to 2021 and again to 2022, as well as winter spending budgets that ranged from negative going into 2020, to peanuts going into 2021 and then a sudden pivot going into 2022, possible a late winter pivot, at that, it's hard to blame the GM for seeming to not have a clear plan.

 

I do think there have been some clear top priorities that have been consistent:

 

1. Build the farm- in both quantity and quality

2. Build up the 40 man roster depth to minimize the amount of gaping holes each season

3. Make very few long term commitments (one to date, and even Story's deal is not close to what we gave Price)

4. Keep the budget under the tax line for the first 2 years and maybe limit how much we go over in year 3 (2022)

5. Try to stay competitive, or at least create the perception we will be competitive, so fans buy season tickets and sign up for the cable packages.

 

(I'm probably missing some.)

 

Sometimes, but not always, #5 might conflict with the others.

[moonslav59]

I think the options were very small on the Mookie deal particularly once the team decided that moving Price was a key part of it. The trade was good considering it was "The David Price Salary Dump featuring Mookie Betts". But they did not really handle the Betts as a trade chip particularly well relative to the massive haul the Nats got for a great but inferior player. That said, there is an extra year of control with Soto which is very important. It is hard not to have a tear roll down the cheek when you realize that the team dealt Mookie Betts in exchange for precisely zero All-Star upside.

 

Extra year and a third, which includes 3 playoff cycles to 1.

 

Had we kept Betts, how could we cut the budget in an equal way? Who takes Price, alone? Who do we trade to make up for the Betts last arb year cost? How good would the team be had we chose trading other top players or including young players with Price, so we could dump his salary?

[Elktonnick]

When a GM has several conflicting priorities that have changed from 2020 to 2021 and again to 2022, as well as winter spending budgets that ranged from negative going into 2020, to peanuts going into 2021 and then a sudden pivot going into 2022, possible a late winter pivot, at that, it's hard to blame the GM for seeming to not have a clear plan.

 

I do think there have been some clear top priorities that have been consistent:

 

1. Build the farm- in both quantity and quality

2. Build up the 40 man roster depth to minimize the amount of gaping holes each season

3. Make very few long term commitments (one to date, and even Story's deal is not close to what we gave Price)

4. Keep the budget under the tax line for the first 2 years and maybe limit how much we go over in year 3 (2022)

5. Try to stay competitive, or at least create the perception we will be competitive, so fans buy season tickets and sign up for the cable packages.

 

(I'm probably missing some.)

 

Sometimes, but not always, #5 might conflict with the others.

 

Sounds like the priorities most senior executives earning 7 figure salaries have. That is why they get paid the big bucks.

[sk7326]

Extra year and a third, which includes 3 playoff cycles to 1.

 

Had we kept Betts, how could we cut the budget in an equal way? Who takes Price, alone? Who do we trade to make up for the Betts last arb year cost? How good would the team be had we chose trading other top players or including young players with Price, so we could dump his salary?

 

I think given their budgetary priorities (priorities of their choosing), the baseball ops did a good job with Betts trade.

 

I am also happy to question the premise of the former to a degree - and the 2019 Sox were in a slightly tougher position to deal Betts and offer that extra control. But as of this second - the trade can be seen as Betts for Verdugo and the start of Trevor Story's post-prime which is quite the sad trombone noise.

[Northern Star]

but the trade is not over, until we know for sure.

 

OK, Yogi.

[Larry Cook]

Gamecocks rule!

 

I will miss Bradley’s defense!

[moonslav59]

Sounds like the priorities most senior executives earning 7 figure salaries have. That is why they get paid the big bucks.

 

No disagreement.

 

Now that Bloom is being allowed to spend, and the farm building is about 3 years in the making, we should start seeing results.

 

I think we saw higher than expected results, last year, and less than expected, this year, so far.

 

Let's see what the roster looks like in 2023. To me, that's when we will truly know just who Bloom is and what his philosophy is, assuming he can spend near the tax line.

[sk7326]

No disagreement.

 

Now that Bloom is being allowed to spend, and the farm building is about 3 years in the making, we should start seeing results.

 

I think we saw higher than expected results, last year, and less than expected, this year, so far.

 

Let's see what the roster looks like in 2023. To me, that's when we will truly know just who Bloom is and what his philosophy is, assuming he can spend near the tax line.

 

We will see what happens - right now the only star in the system is Mayer and he is very very far away. But there is more pitching in the organization than in years, though again the #2 starter or above sorts are still wanting.

 

I do think we see some of the his philosophy at work in the amateur choices. The club is counting on being able to teach getting into one's power - Yorke and Romero are both middle infielders with strong hit tools who did not really show much power. Amd it does make sense. The Dodgers (of course the development staff built from Tampa) have had a lot of success reshaping players swings to get more lift.

[iortiz]

No disagreement.

 

Now that Bloom is being allowed to spend, and the farm building is about 3 years in the making, we should start seeing results.

 

I think we saw higher than expected results, last year, and less than expected, this year, so far.

 

Let's see what the roster looks like in 2023. To me, that's when we will truly know just who Bloom is and what his philosophy is, assuming he can spend near the tax line.

 

Exactly. Eye to eye here.

[Deja Doh]

JBJ is a 0.228 career hitter with an OBP of 0.307. He's been a below average player forever. Why Bloom picked him up again is insane.

 

But it's not just JBJ, Franchy Cordero is a 0.220 career hitter with an OBP of 0.288. And somehow it gets even worse with Jaylin Davis, a career 0.182 hitter, with a 0.261 OBP (why/how is he on our team?). Travis Shaw? Rob Refsnyder? Jonathan Araúz? Terrible.

[moonslav59]

We will see what happens - right now the only star in the system is Mayer and he is very very far away. But there is more pitching in the organization than in years, though again the #2 starter or above sorts are still wanting.

 

I do think we see some of the his philosophy at work in the amateur choices. The club is counting on being able to teach getting into one's power - Yorke and Romero are both middle infielders with strong hit tools who did not really show much power. Amd it does make sense. The Dodgers (of course the development staff built from Tampa) have had a lot of success reshaping players swings to get more lift.

 

I really like Rafaela and some others like Kavadas may surprise.

 

It does not look like we have any likely #1's or #2's in our current system, but we do have a lot of pitchers to hope 1 can rise to that level.

 

Wink (.562 OPS Against in minors), Crawford & Seabold (.538) and others may have #3 or #4 as their ceiling, but I have hopes that one of the following guys can improve to a good possibility of becoming a #2:

 

Bello (118 K-34 BB in 88 IP/ .561 OPS Against)

Mata (47K-21 BB in 36 IP/ .589)

Walter (75 K-7 BB in 58 IP/ .585)

Murphy (110 K- 45 BB in 104 IP/.595)

Gonzalez (89 K- 46 BB in 70 IP/ .677)

Ward (25K- 5BB in 18 IP/ .470)

Drohan (123 K-37 BB in 96 IP/ .711)

 

[moonslav59]

JBJ is a 0.228 career hitter with an OBP of 0.307. He's been a below average player forever. Why Bloom picked him up again is insane.

 

He had a 101 OPS+ over 6 seasons (2015-2020). That's more than half his career.

 

Thats average hitting with stellar D.

 

.247 BA

.331 OBP

.769 OPS

 

Decent base-runner, too.

 

They obviously were fooled by his short season success in 2020.

[vjcsmoke]

Bold!

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/08/red-sox-dfa-jackie-bradley-jr.html

 

JBJ one of Bloom's worst BLUNDER trades has now been kicked off the roster! Good riddance!

[Jasonbay44]

JBJ is obviously washed up now, but I always liked the guy. He played hard, was fantastic defender and overall solid player for most of his Red Sox career. His 2018 ALCS performance should never be forgotten, im not sure Sox win that series without those clutch hits.

 

 

It was time to move on and I think his days of being every day player are over, but I wish him the best.

[mvp 78]

JBJ one of Bloom's worst BLUNDER trades has now been kicked off the roster! Good riddance!

 

JBJ was the worst move Bloom has made.

[Bellhorn04]

JBJ was the worst move Bloom has made.

 

It's a blip, IMHO.

[mvp 78]

It's a blip, IMHO.

 

It made them go over the lux tax this season for some ungodly reason.

[Bellhorn04]

It made them go over the lux tax this season for some ungodly reason.

 

I have a suspicion they WANTED to go over this year, for PR purposes.

 

If they kept Renfroe the net reduction to the payroll tax purposes would have been about 4.5 mill.

[moonslav59]

It made them go over the lux tax this season for some ungodly reason.

 

That was the leading cause of my itchy scalp at trade time.

 

I get wanting to improve RF defense in Fenway. I get hoping JBJ's offense maybe bouncing back. (It has over his whole career.) I get thinking the two prospects could even out any disparity between Renfroe and JBJ. But, the money disparity, on a restricted winter budget, made no sense.

 

I know the $8M buyout for 2023 does not count on the tax line, but it's still $8M of Henry's money!

[moonslav59]

I have a suspicion they WANTED to go over this year, for PR purposes.

 

If they kept Renfroe the net reduction to the payroll tax purposes would have been about 4.5 mill.

 

True, but had they not traded Renfroe for JBJ, they could have traded him for a min salary or prospects, but they'd then need to fill the slot JBJ filled, and at the time, Refsnyder was not considered a viable option, even as a platoon option.

 

The weird thing is, we could have started the year with Duran in LF, Kike in CF and Dugo in RF, but in April, Dugo was not good enough to play RF. Suddenly, it's okay.