JBJ DFAed

[oldtimer]

That was the leading cause of my itchy scalp at trade time.

 

I get wanting to improve RF defense in Fenway. I get hoping JBJ's offense maybe bouncing back. (It has over his whole career.) I get thinking the two prospects could even out any disparity between Renfroe and JBJ. But, the money disparity, on a restricted winter budget, made no sense.

 

I know the $8M buyout for 2023 does not count on the tax line, but it's still $8M of Henry's money!

I'm with you on this one for all the reasons you gave. JBJ's addition was an absolute head scratcher and looked like a moment of insanity for Bloom. Let's hope we see positive signs of a plan going forward.

[oldtimer]

True, but had they not traded Renfroe for JBJ, they could have traded him for a min salary or prospects, but they'd then need to fill the slot JBJ filled, and at the time, Refsnyder was not considered a viable option, even as a platoon option.

 

The weird thing is, we could have started the year with Duran in LF, Kike in CF and Dugo in RF, but in April, Dugo was not good enough to play RF. Suddenly, it's okay.

 

The season is essentially over at this point and whether Dugo plays in right or not won't change the trajectory of the team. Time to get a look at prospects who may be good enough to fill a ML position in 2023. Other than Casas, I don't see any prospect who can fill a field position. That is not a good testament to the capability of our farm system.

[moonslav59]

I'm with you on this one for all the reasons you gave. JBJ's addition was an absolute head scratcher and looked like a moment of insanity for Bloom. Let's hope we see positive signs of a plan going forward.

 

I caught a lot of flack for scratching my head, at the time of the trade.

 

I'm hopeful Binelas and or Hamilton will help soften the blow this trade made on the 2022 team, but at least it's not a long lasting hit.

 

One side of the Beni trade ends when this season is over. We know what Beni did for KC and will have done with the Yanks to finish out the season. The other half of the trade is far from complete, yet many label it as a clear blunder.

 

First of all, I doubt Beni would hjave helped enough to get us any farther than we did since his departure. Secondly, the money saved on tphe trade allowed Bloom to sign his OF replacement- Renfroe (as Dugo was moved to LF.) Once can argue, this alone, balanced the trade.

 

What Wink, Cordero and the other 3 prospects give us is still pending.

 

The Betts/Price trade was a salary dump and forced on Bloom. Judging him or blaming him for trading Betts, without adding Price to the equation and the context of Bloom needing to cut salary is missing the full picture of the situation.

 

There is plenty of other things to bash Bloom for, but IMO, not the Beni & Betts trades, yet.

 

[moonslav59]

The season is essentially over at this point and whether Dugo plays in right or not won't change the trajectory of the team. Time to get a look at prospects who may be good enough to fill a ML position in 2023. Other than Casas, I don't see any prospect who can fill a field position. That is not a good testament to the capability of our farm system.

 

Casas can field a position and probably very well. If you meant, right now, maybe not just yet, but he's close to being fully re-habbed.

 

Duran & Refsnyder are already filling FT roles. Well, Ref is on the IL, but when he comes back, we could have 3, if we want to call Casas up. I agree that Downs, Davis, Sanchez and Almonte aren't capable of filling any role FT, but maybe Wong or RHern can fill the back-up catcher rule before the year is over (DFA Plawecki?)

 

[notin]

True, but had they not traded Renfroe for JBJ, they could have traded him for a min salary or prospects, but they'd then need to fill the slot JBJ filled, and at the time, Refsnyder was not considered a viable option, even as a platoon option.

 

The weird thing is, we could have started the year with Duran in LF, Kike in CF and Dugo in RF, but in April, Dugo was not good enough to play RF. Suddenly, it's okay.

 

 

Was it that Verdugo wasn’t good enough or JBJ was just so much better?

[Old Red]

Was it that Verdugo wasn’t good enough or JBJ was just so much better?

 

The problem was Duran wasn’t good enough, and I haven’t heard anyone else say that Dugy can’t play RF. He’s no Dewey, or Mookie out there, but I think more than adequate.

[moonslav59]

Was it that Verdugo wasn’t good enough or JBJ was just so much better?

 

To not have played Dugo in RF for even just an inning in 2022, until JBJ's DFA, makes me think they wanted to avoid playing him there at all costs. When they called up Duran, the played Duran in CF rather than Dugo, which further strengtherned my view that they felt Dugo was an only LF OF'er. Of course, it's just my opinion, and he's playing RF, now, so clearly they think it's okay. It just seemed all so sudden, to me.

 

We were dying for a CF/RF'er, when Kike went down. If Dugo was okay in RF, why not go with ...

 

vs RHP

LF Duran

CF JBJ

RF Dugo

 

vs LHP

LF Dugo

CF JBJ (or Duran)

RF Refsnyder

 

How many times were we thinking about trying something different but having no in-system choices. Well, we had one.

[Old Red]

To not have played Dugo in RF for even just an inning in 2022, until JBJ's DFA, makes me think they wanted to avoid playing him there at all costs. When they called up Duran, the played Duran in CF rather than Dugo, which further strengtherned my view that they felt Dugo was an only LF OF'er. Of course, it's just my opinion, and he's playing RF, now, so clearly they think it's okay. It just seemed all so sudden, to me.

 

We were dying for a CF/RF'er, when Kike went down. If Dugo was okay in RF, why not go with ...

 

vs RHP

LF Duran

CF JBJ

RF Dugo

 

vs LHP

LF Dugo

CF JBJ (or Duran)

RF Refsnyder

 

How many times were we thinking about trying something different but having no in-system choices. Well, we had one.

 

Not having played Dugy in RF I believe all had to do with JBJ being that much better, or even the REf Man for that matter. Of course that doesn’t explain what to hell Arroyo was doing out there, or Franchy. You have been on this Dugy is only a LF, but I haven’t heard anyone from the Red Sox say that. Duran is a bad OF no matter where you play him.

[Elktonnick]

Not having played Dugy in RF I believe all had to do with JBJ being that much better, or even the REf Man for that matter. Of course that doesn’t explain what to hell Arroyo was doing out there, or Franchy. You have been on this Dugy is only a LF, but I haven’t heard anyone from the Red Sox say that. Duran is a bad OF no matter where you play him.

Watching Bloom playing guys all over the place, outfielders playing the infield and infielders playing the outfield etc. One can not escape the conclusion that Bloom thinks that ballplayers are interchangeable. It is no wonder that with so many guys out of position they play like a bunch little leaguers. It can not be good for morale or their self confidence.

[Old Red]

Watching Bloom playing guys all over the place, outfielders playing the infield and infielders playing the outfield etc. One can not escape the conclusion that Bloom thinks that ballplayers are interchangeable. It is no wonder that with so many guys out of position they play like a bunch little leaguers. It can not be good for morale or their self confidence.

Good point, and I made the Little League comment several times, on misjudgment of balls hit into the air, and balls thrown around the IF.

[notin]

Watching Bloom playing guys all over the place, outfielders playing the infield and infielders playing the outfield etc. One can not escape the conclusion that Bloom thinks that ballplayers are interchangeable. It is no wonder that with so many guys out of position they play like a bunch little leaguers. It can not be good for morale or their self confidence.

 

I’ve asked before - is that Bloom or Cora? At some point, putting a lineup together is Cora’s job.

 

The big one to me was Arroyo in RF. Why? Who called that? Just play JBJ and forego the offense to get the D…

[notin]

The problem was Duran wasn’t good enough, and I haven’t heard anyone else say that Dugy can’t play RF. He’s no Dewey, or Mookie out there, but I think more than adequate.

 

If he could be Dewey or Betts, that would be great! But just because he can’t be either doesn’t mean he has no business there.

 

Frankly I’m confused why people think he’s so bad at covering a RF that the Sox once let Tom Brunansky defend. Is it just that Betts spoiled us?

[notin]

To not have played Dugo in RF for even just an inning in 2022, until JBJ's DFA, makes me think they wanted to avoid playing him there at all costs. When they called up Duran, the played Duran in CF rather than Dugo, which further strengtherned my view that they felt Dugo was an only LF OF'er. Of course, it's just my opinion, and he's playing RF, now, so clearly they think it's okay. It just seemed all so sudden, to me.

 

We were dying for a CF/RF'er, when Kike went down. If Dugo was okay in RF, why not go with ...

 

vs RHP

LF Duran

CF JBJ

RF Dugo

 

vs LHP

LF Dugo

CF JBJ (or Duran)

RF Refsnyder

 

How many times were we thinking about trying something different but having no in-system choices. Well, we had one.

 

I didn’t interpret it the same at all.

 

The whole reason they acquired Bradley was for defense. So once Story was on board, they had the gloves in RF and CF and let Verdugo handle LF.

 

Duran was called up to replace CF. I’m sure some teams have re-arranged their OF for an injury replacement, but it’s more common not to. They simply brought up Duran for Kike and let Verdugo do his job. Just like how they never slide over Story when Bogaerts is out…

Edited August 5, 2022 by notin

[Elktonnick]

I’ve asked before - is that Bloom or Cora? At some point, putting a lineup together is Cora’s job.

 

The big one to me was Arroyo in RF. Why? Who called that? Just play JBJ and forego the offense to get the D…

There has been a great deal of chatter coming out of Boston since the beginning of the year that Cora has less discretion on the lineup than in years past. The analytics and match ups play a huge role. But it can not be lost on anyone that Bloom has particularly signed players to play out of position. Hence Duran in Center, Franchy at 1st Arroyo everywhere.

The FUBAR that has become the daily lineup machinations seems to give credence to the idea that Cora is not in absolute control of the lineup.

[Old Red]

If he could be Dewey or Betts, that would be great! But just because he can’t be either doesn’t mean he has no business there.

 

Frankly I’m confused why people think he’s so bad at covering a RF that the Sox once let Tom Brunansky defend. Is it just that Betts spoiled us?

 

With this we agree.

[dgalehouse]

Where they play in the outfield is not the big problem. The main problem has been the lack of offense they have provided.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If he could be Dewey or Betts, that would be great! But just because he can’t be either doesn’t mean he has no business there.

 

Frankly I’m confused why people think he’s so bad at covering a RF that the Sox once let Tom Brunansky defend. Is it just that Betts spoiled us?

 

I know Moon and I both like Verdugo in RF in 2020, where he was at least as good as Jackson I-swear-his-name-was-Clint Frazier. Somebody voted for Dugo for AL MVP that year, too.

[Old Red]

Where they play in the outfield is not the big problem. The main problem has been the lack of offense they have provided.

 

Kike, and JBJ starting the season couldn’t swing a bat between them.

[moonslav59]

I know Moon and I both like Verdugo in RF in 2020, where he was at least as good as Jackson I-swear-his-name-was-Clint Frazier. Somebody voted for Dugo for AL MVP that year, too.

 

When we signed Renfroe to replace Beni, I expected Dugo in RF and Renfroe in LF. I was surprised to see them flipped. When I realized the great arm Renfroe had, it made some sense, but what was lost by Renfroe's subpar defense in every other area of defense? Obviously, Bloom & Cora thought his defense brought down his overall worth to the point where they felt the need to trade him.

 

I've never said I felt Dugo was a left-field only OF'er. (If I did, I did not mean it that way.) I said the Sox are treating him like that. To me, playing Duran in CF, instead of Dugo, solidified my opinion on how the Sox viewed Dugo's D away from LF.

 

Now that we traded for our 3rd LF-ONLY OF'er, Dugo is given the green light to play RF. I'm puzzled by that choice. I'm not against Dugo playing RF- just puzzled.

[moonslav59]

I didn’t interpret it the same at all.

 

The whole reason they acquired Bradley was for defense. So once Story was on board, they had the gloves in RF and CF and let Verdugo handle LF.

 

Duran was called up to replace CF. I’m sure some teams have re-arranged their OF for an injury replacement, but it’s more common not to. They simply brought up Duran for Kike and let Verdugo do his job. Just like how they never slide over Story when Bogaerts is out…

 

They started benching JBJ, mostly vs LH'd pitchers. Not once, even as a late inning switch, did they play Dugo in RF. Not one inning.

 

In the 107 games JBJ was with the Sox, this year he started 76 games here:

 

59 GS in CF

17 GS in RF

31 on the bench

 

I get how Kike was here for some of these games, and the righty Refsnyder was doing well in RF and JBJ played some CF, but really? At no time vs a RH'd starter after Kike was hurt, could we have tried Dugo in RF, JBJ in CF and Duran in RF?

 

When Kike was healthy, could we never have tried Kike in CF and Dugo in RF with Duran or Cordero in LF? (No, we played Cordero in RF over Dugo?)

 

[Old Red]

They started benching JBJ, mostly vs LH'd pitchers. Not once, even as a late inning switch, did they play Dugo in RF. Not one inning.

 

In the 107 games JBJ was with the Sox, this year he started 76 games here:

 

59 GS in CF

17 GS in RF

31 on the bench

 

I get how Kike was here for some of these games, and the righty Refsnyder was doing well in RF and JBJ played some CF, but really? At no time vs a RH'd starter after Kike was hurt, could we have tried Dugo in RF, JBJ in CF and Duran in RF?

 

When Kike was healthy, could we never have tried Kike in CF and Dugo in RF with Duran or Cordero in LF? (No, we played Cordero in RF over Dugo?)

 

 

I think you are just over analyzing this, and they just made Dugy the full time LF, and didn’t want to move him, and not , because he couldn’t play CF, or RF. It’s not that big a deal to anyone else.

[vjcsmoke]

There has been a great deal of chatter coming out of Boston since the beginning of the year that Cora has less discretion on the lineup than in years past. The analytics and match ups play a huge role. But it can not be lost on anyone that Bloom has particularly signed players to play out of position. Hence Duran in Center, Franchy at 1st Arroyo everywhere.

The FUBAR that has become the daily lineup machinations seems to give credence to the idea that Cora is not in absolute control of the lineup.

 

Wow if Bloom is dictating lineups and where Cora can play his guys, he really needs to get the hell out of the kitchen and let the manager do his job!

[notin]

They started benching JBJ, mostly vs LH'd pitchers. Not once, even as a late inning switch, did they play Dugo in RF. Not one inning.

 

In the 107 games JBJ was with the Sox, this year he started 76 games here:

 

59 GS in CF

17 GS in RF

31 on the bench

 

I get how Kike was here for some of these games, and the righty Refsnyder was doing well in RF and JBJ played some CF, but really? At no time vs a RH'd starter after Kike was hurt, could we have tried Dugo in RF, JBJ in CF and Duran in RF?

 

When Kike was healthy, could we never have tried Kike in CF and Dugo in RF with Duran or Cordero in LF? (No, we played Cordero in RF over Dugo?)

 

 

Yes because most managers don’t bounce starters from position to position like that. How often did Betts shift to CF when Bradley was hurt?

 

And Cordero only started 11 games. I don’t think it was a statement about Verdugo as much as a desire to just keep him in his routine…

[vjcsmoke]

Alex Cora talks JBJ release, "Where we’re at roster-wise, we had to go in a different direction." Translation: we had to get the black hole out of our lineup even it it meant getting absolutely nothing back in return. Bravo Chaim Bloom! What a brilliant trade to give away a 30 homerun hitter for a guy you had to later DFA in the same season!

 

Article: https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/08/boston-red-sox-release-jackie-bradley-jr-alex-cora-says-where-were-at-roster-wise-we-had-to-go-in-a-different-direction.html

[notin]

Wow if Bloom is dictating lineups and where Cora can play his guys, he really needs to get the hell out of the kitchen and let the manager do his job!

 

It’s a safe bet that isn’t happening.

[moonslav59]

Yes because most managers don’t bounce starters from position to position like that. How often did Betts shift to CF when Bradley was hurt?

 

And Cordero only started 11 games. I don’t think it was a statement about Verdugo as much as a desire to just keep him in his routine…

 

Could be. I readily admit my theory may be wrong, but it seemed like we were desperate to find the right mix in an OF that has been the worst in MLB.

 

We all have heard and then seen the horror show Duran is on defense, and yet, we chose to play him away from LF rather than Verdugo. To me, JBJ is a great defensive CF'er, so why not (v RHPs)...

 

LF Duran

CF JBJ

RF Verdugo

 

Did Duran look comfy in CF?

 

Is JBJ better in RF vs CF?

 

I'm just wondering why they never tried it, even once. I came to the conclusion they don't like Dugo anywhere but LF, but now, it seems okay. Yes, JBj is gone and Pham is here, so it's much easier, now, but still...

[moonslav59]

Alex Cora talks JBJ release, "Where we’re at roster-wise, we had to go in a different direction." Translation: we had to get the black hole out of our lineup even it it meant getting absolutely nothing back in return. Bravo Chaim Bloom! What a brilliant trade to give away a 30 homerun hitter for a guy you had to later DFA in the same season!

 

Article: https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/08/boston-red-sox-release-jackie-bradley-jr-alex-cora-says-where-were-at-roster-wise-we-had-to-go-in-a-different-direction.html

 

Binelas and Hamilton might end up being better than absolutely nothing, but the trade still sucked and still sucks.

[Old Red]

JBJ to the Blue Jays. I would say I hope he comes back to haunt his old club, but I don’t think the Red Sox will be relevant to haunt. Good luck to JBJ.

[Hugh2]

Binelas and Hamilton might end up being better than absolutely nothing, but the trade still sucked and still sucks.

 

Many of us who didn’t immediately hate the trade did so under the assumption the Sox were going to sign Suzuki, or some other outfielder. We thought JBJ would be the 4th outfielder, but we were wrong.

[Old Red]

Many of us who didn’t immediately hate the trade did so under the assumption the Sox were going to sign Suzuki, or some other outfielder. We thought JBJ would be the 4th outfielder, but we were wrong.

 

That may have been the assumption to some on here, but I don’t think that was Bloom’s plan at all.