A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

Why are we counting Greinke?

 

I'd rather have Wacha or just go with Mata.

 

It was notin who had interest in Greinke. I'd take him at this point. But it looks like you just might get Mata.

[notin]

And if Kluber and Greinke sign in the next 4 days, it'll still be December, but every free agent pitcher any of us had in mind will be gone.

 

True.

 

But none of us had Wacha or Hill in mind last year.

 

(And several have called for bringing Wacha back, and he remains an option.)

 

I have no idea who Bloom has in mind. When the off-season began, I didn’t peg Eflin as a target, either…

[notin]

Why are we counting Greinke?

 

I'd rather have Wacha or just go with Mata.

 

Wacha is another option, but there is nothing wrong with Greinke, who did throw 137 IP last year with an ERA+ of 111.

 

Mata will be a depth option as their will be plenty of IP for him, Walter, Crawford, Murphy, etc.

[moonslav59]

Wacha is another option, but there is nothing wrong with Greinke, who did throw 137 IP last year with an ERA+ of 111.

 

Mata will be a depth option as their will be plenty of IP for him, Walter, Crawford, Murphy, etc.

 

I'd rather go with Wacha or sign Fulmer and move Houck to SP'er.

[notin]

I'd rather go with Wacha or sign Fulmer and move Houck to SP'er.

 

At this point, certainly still possible.

 

Heck signing Greinke, Wacha and Fulmer is still possible, although I think/hope they save something to spend on a SS.

 

Of course right now we’re only talking about the free agent market. A trade for a SP is also possible. Certainly the Marlins have available arms, and the salary dump trade market includes pitchers like Patrick Corbin, Madison Bumgarner, Yusei Kikuchi, Carlos Carrasco and old friend Eduardo Rodriguez…

[moonslav59]

At this point, certainly still possible.

 

Heck signing Greinke, Wacha and Fulmer is still possible, although I think/hope they save something to spend on a SS.

 

Of course right now we’re only talking about the free agent market. A trade for a SP is also possible. Certainly the Marlins have available arms, and the salary dump trade market includes pitchers like Patrick Corbin, Madison Bumgarner, Yusei Kikuchi, Carlos Carrasco and old friend Eduardo Rodriguez…

 

We could sign Kluber, Fulmer and the 3 top FA SSs on the market. It's not about money, now. We have $38M and there's only $37M left of decent FAs, at best.

[moonslav59]

At this point, certainly still possible.

 

Heck signing Greinke, Wacha and Fulmer is still possible, although I think/hope they save something to spend on a SS.

 

Of course right now we’re only talking about the free agent market. A trade for a SP is also possible. Certainly the Marlins have available arms, and the salary dump trade market includes pitchers like Patrick Corbin, Madison Bumgarner, Yusei Kikuchi, Carlos Carrasco and old friend Eduardo Rodriguez…

 

How about Andrus, Chafin and Fulmer with Houck as the #4? (DFA Brasier.)

[iortiz]

Lol we are The Boston Royals.

[notin]

How about Andrus, Chafin and Fulmer with Houck as the #4? (DFA Brasier.)

 

I know there is a good chance Houck goes to the rotation. I personally don’t like it because in don’t like the idea of starting 2033 with 3 SPs that ended 2022 on the Injured List.

 

Also I just like Houck as a reliever. But as of now, there are far more options for building the bullpen than the rotation.

 

I’m also mildly intrigued by this guy the Rangers DFAd in Nate Mears…

Edited December 28, 2022 by notin

[jacksonianmarch]

Houck is not a great rotation candidate. He’s got two wipeout pitches, but he gets abused second and third time through. He has not shown the capability or the arsenal to start

[jacksonianmarch]

Whitlock is a better rotation candidate, but needs to prove health

 

But I’m actually shocked on Eovaldi. With all the money flowing, he essentially signed a 2 yr extension, which nowadays doesn’t look that bad

Edited December 28, 2022 by jacksonianmarch

[Bellhorn04]

Whitlock is a better rotation candidate, but needs to prove health

 

But I’m actually shocked on Eovaldi. With all the money flowing, he essentially signed a 2 yr extension, which nowadays doesn’t look that bad

 

Yep, just one more thing to piss me off.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yep, just one more thing to piss me off.

 

If there’s ever been a truer indication of a rebuild, this was it

[Bellhorn04]

Houck is not a great rotation candidate. He’s got two wipeout pitches, but he gets abused second and third time through. He has not shown the capability or the arsenal to start

 

It's pretty obvious Houck should be in the bullpen, but as we know, Bloom likes to try stuff!

[Bellhorn04]

If there’s ever been a truer indication of a rebuild, this was it

 

It still looks to me like we might be punting 2023. But with this FO it's hard to say anything with much certainty.

[Bellhorn04]

2015 was the famous "Who's the Ace" year. Cherington got fired at the end of that one.

 

The 2023 rotation looks even shakier.

[notin]

2015 was the famous "Who's the Ace" year. Cherington got fired at the end of that one.

 

The 2023 rotation looks even shakier.

 

The irony there is the shaky 2015 rotation featured the 2016 Cy Young winner…

[Bellhorn04]

The irony there is the shaky 2015 rotation featured the 2016 Cy Young winner…

 

True, but let's also be honest that Rick Porcello winning a CYA is one of the all-time outliers...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I know there is a good chance Houck goes to the rotation. I personally don’t like it because in don’t like the idea of starting 2033 with 3 SPs that ended 2022 on the Injured List.

 

 

Four? Two old guys and two recent surgically-procedured young guns.

 

Apparently, the Sox valued Eflin more than Eovaldi, offering the Rayward one the biggest reported pitching contract of the Bloom Era. I was in on Eflin early, but as a late-innings option, after seeing him in that role in the postseason.

 

The one word to describe Boston's offseason that I'm seeing more lately is confusing.

[moonslav59]

I know there is a good chance Houck goes to the rotation. I personally don’t like it because in don’t like the idea of starting 2033 with 3 SPs that ended 2022 on the Injured List.

 

Also I just like Houck as a reliever. But as of now, there are far more options for building the bullpen than the rotation.

 

I'd have preferred Houck AND Whitlock stay in the pen, but yes, we are running out of SP'er options, and even Kluber or Wacha was not what I had in mind, at the start of winter.

 

I'm holding out a sliver of hope we trade for a solid 1/2 type, but I know that is likely a pipe dream.

[moonslav59]

Houck is not a great rotation candidate. He’s got two wipeout pitches, but he gets abused second and third time through. He has not shown the capability or the arsenal to start

 

Many SP'ers, today, do very poorly the third time through, including some good ones. With a strong pen, it can be managed.

 

Like I said, I'd rather have kept Houck and Whitlock in the pen, even with the 4 added arms, but I'm not sure I trust Mata, Walter, Wink, Crawford, Seabold and Murphy to step it up. We needed an ace or solid #2. One of the depth guys may end up doing very well, more likely years from now, but even if one does in 2023, we may go through 4 or 5 of them, before we hit jackpot, and by then, the failures of the first 4-5 might help put us hopelessly behind in the WC race.

 

To me, Houck seems like a better bet than any of those 6, and unless a miracle of miracles happens, and Sale and Paxton both start the season off the IL, he may be our best bet- emphasis on "bet."

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

People trying to make sense of Bloom's signings this winter might have this one right:

 

He picked up four relievers to turn into more prospects at the trade deadline next summer.

 

Hopefully, the strategy will be not to overuse and burn out Martin, Joely and Mills before August.

 

There doesn't seem to be as much risk about Jansen, who's used to closing out victories.

[moonslav59]

Whitlock is a better rotation candidate, but needs to prove health

 

But I’m actually shocked on Eovaldi. With all the money flowing, he essentially signed a 2 yr extension, which nowadays doesn’t look that bad

 

Basically, it's $17M x 2 or $21M x 3, if he reaches 300 IP over the 2 seasons, combined.

 

I think the Sox saw some things that scared them away, and he really had only 2 good seasons out of the 4 year contract term, and one was the short 2020 season. Man, 2021 was a real good one, though!

 

I'll always have a good feeling about Nate in a Sox uniform, but I'm pretty sure we did the right thing letting him go, at this point in his career.

[moonslav59]

True, but let's also be honest that Rick Porcello winning a CYA is one of the all-time outliers...

 

Had he done 2016 in 2015, Ben might have lasted another year- same with HRam.

[moonslav59]

People trying to make sense of Bloom's signings this winter might have this one right:

 

He picked up four relievers to turn into more prospects at the trade deadline next summer.

 

Hopefully, the strategy will be not to overuse and burn out Martin, Joely and Mills before August.

 

There doesn't seem to be as much risk about Jansen, who's used to closing out victories.

 

Jansen has been Mr. Consistency for over a decade. Bloom did a pretty good job building the pen, which was probably the one area most bashed over the last season or more.

 

I'm still scratching my head over the fact that we have not filled our biggest 3 needs: SP, SS and RF and spent nearly 3/5ths of our winter money spent, thus far on DH/LF and DH/3B/1B players. In terms of the 8 position player plus DH needs rankings, I had 3B last or 9th, LF was 6th (behind 3B, 2B and CF) and 1B was the 5th highest need area.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Yoshida and Turner to bolster our offense, but we still have at least 2 gaping holes to fill, $38M to spend, but hardly anyone left to spend it on.

 

Yup, a real head-scratcher, and this one is likely on Bloom not JH. There is time left, so the judgment is not final, but options are running thin, unless we make a trade and part with a precious prospect or two.

[moonslav59]

True, but let's also be honest that Rick Porcello winning a CYA is one of the all-time outliers...

 

As one could say about Nate's 2021 season.

 

At least Porcello was more consistent and healthy the rest of his career.

[Bellhorn04]

Had he done 2016 in 2015, Ben might have lasted another year- same with HRam.

 

But 2016 Porcello was a fluke, so it's a meaningless hypothetical.

[Bellhorn04]

As one could say about Nate's 2021 season.

 

At least Porcello was more consistent and healthy the rest of his career.

 

Why are you comparing the two? Apples and oranges.

[mvp 78]

It's pretty obvious Houck should be in the bullpen, but as we know, Bloom likes to try stuff!

 

Dude is going to get yanked around like my dog's Buc-ee stuffy.

[moonslav59]

Why are you comparing the two? Apples and oranges.

 

Because you seemed upset we did not bring Nate back.

 

Both had clear outlier seasons with the Sox, and Porcello's was more in line with the rest of his career than Nate's was, although Nate's 2021 was not a CY season.