A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[vjcsmoke]

A realistic view is to start by climbing out of the basement.

 

Of course we'd rather be hopeful than pessimistic after the Red Sox made a bunch of signings. So at least they're making overt efforts to improve.

 

But when you add it all up, have we improved enough to be competitive with the Yankees? Or do you also chalk this up to yet another 'rebuild' year?

 

Hard to say.

 

Two important upgrades obtained - Closer, and a good hitting outfielder. No idea how we're replacing Bogey. Will someone from the farm system finally step up?

[dgalehouse]

The Sox finished 21 games behind the Yankees. Now , they have just lost their best , or second best , player . Not a surprise that there are not too many happy campers in Sox Nation. There is still plenty of time before opening day. Stay tuned.

[moonslav59]

A realistic view is to start by climbing out of the basement.

 

Of course we'd rather be hopeful than pessimistic after the Red Sox made a bunch of signings. So at least they're making overt efforts to improve.

 

But when you add it all up, have we improved enough to be competitive with the Yankees? Or do you also chalk this up to yet another 'rebuild' year?

 

Hard to say.

 

Two important upgrades obtained - Closer, and a good hitting outfielder. No idea how we're replacing Bogey. Will someone from the farm system finally step up?

 

Only Downs is ML ready, so good luck with that. Mayer may be ready by 2024, so there is hope, then, but can Sox Nation wait that long?

 

I'm thinking JH is thinking a "big splash" is needed.

 

Trade?

 

Correa?

 

Rodon?

 

Not sure Swanson and Nate meet that threshold.

 

 

 

[Hugh2]

Not signins Xander was a bummer, but before that....has it really been a bad offseason? Would like to see them add to the rotation and they probably will.

 

I don't think the Sox go this route. But, if they ended up signing a starter and Correa or Swanson, how do we feel about his team after that? If they add Correa/Eovalid/Senga and look at the other additions wouldn't you feel a heck of a lot better going into 2023?

 

Personally, I think they're going to go for Segura or Andrus to plus up SS for a few years until Mayer is ready, and use the rest of their AAV on a starter, and one of Brantley/Conforto. Would prefer a RHH but, unless you're going big at SS I don't see that happening. Brantley would give you a guy who could play some OF but will DH a lot and give you a high OBP, he can lead off if Yoshida struggles out the gate, and if Yoshida is the real deal you have a strong 1-2 high OBP at the top of your lineup. Something we haven't had in a while. But that lineup is going to struggle vs. LHP too.

 

I think Bloom has a few more tricks up his sleeve. I'm not saying they're great tricks, but the offseason isn't over and he's going to plug the holes with something. Intriguing or garbage.

 

A trade could shock us.

[Hugh2]

My biggest knock on Swanson was his arm, but it's not like he can't pick it at SS. He's probably fine at SS for at least another couple years. I liked Correa/Bogaerts because I saw them as guys who could eventually move to third but Swanson could probably easily shift over to 2nd in a couple of years when we are ready to hand the keys over to Mayer.

 

However there's only one problem here, the Sox are likely not signing Swanson. That's fine if they replace Bogey's bat elsewhere and get a stop gap SS in the mold of my above post. But with Xander gone there's so much pressure to resign Devers. If Bloom can't resign Devers, I think a WS berth is the only thing on earth that could keep him here in Boston.

[moonslav59]

Not signins Xander was a bummer, but before that....has it really been a bad offseason? Would like to see them add to the rotation and they probably will.

 

It seemed many were happy the day before Bogey departed, and really, at that time, how many felt we were going to sign him after paying Yoshida?

[moonslav59]

Brantley would give you a guy who could play some OF but will DH a lot and give you a high OBP, he can lead off if Yoshida struggles out the gate, and if Yoshida is the real deal you have a strong 1-2 high OBP at the top of your lineup.

 

I like Brantley as a DH and back up LF'er, but we need a big RH'd bat.

[Larry Cook]

I think we sign someone for the short term. Gionta for instance. We can also use hernandez on the infield if we can find a power hitting outfielder to trade for.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Japanese OFer May end up as a DH. He’s all bat, no glove. So Brantley may not be a great choice.

 

I saw the question earlier about this being a good or bad off-season so far.

 

You theoretically replaced JD’s production with the OF from Japan.

 

You lost a 6WAR SS who was a stalwart for your club for awhile and have not replaced him.

 

You’ve lost Eovaldi and have not replaced him.

 

And those are losses from a last place team. It’s not like we are dissecting a title winner here. This has been an awful off-season if your goal was to win in 2023, and there are no two ways about it

[Hugh2]

I like Brantley as a DH and back up LF'er, but we need a big RH'd bat.

 

Well….there’s Correa. Plug up SS and the middle of your lineup. Conforto would be perfect if he was RH, still I like him better than Brantley on a 1 year deal

[notin]

Well….there’s Correa. Plug up SS and the middle of your lineup. Conforto would be perfect if he was RH, still I like him better than Brantley on a 1 year deal

 

The RHH options for DH are all players like Duvall, Mancini, Gary Sanchez, JD, Sano, Wil Myers.

 

The LHH options are better - Brantley, Conforto (if he can be the pre-2021 Conforto), Dom Smith and the criminally underrated Brandon Belt.

[moonslav59]

The Japanese OFer May end up as a DH. He’s all bat, no glove. So Brantley may not be a great choice.

 

I saw the question earlier about this being a good or bad off-season so far.

 

You theoretically replaced JD’s production with the OF from Japan.

 

You lost a 6WAR SS who was a stalwart for your club for awhile and have not replaced him.

 

You’ve lost Eovaldi and have not replaced him.

 

And those are losses from a last place team. It’s not like we are dissecting a title winner here. This has been an awful off-season if your goal was to win in 2023, and there are no two ways about it

 

We took the time to learn the names Tanaka and Matsui. His name is Masataka Yoshida. You will come to remember his name.

 

Our LF is better.

Our CF is better.

Or RF is better.

Our DH could easily be about the same.

Our 1B is way better.

Our pen, which you failed to mention, is better even when subtracting Whitlock and Strahm.

Our 2B should be better with improved health.

3B should be about the same.

 

We have $40M left to try and make up for the loss of Bogey and Nate.

 

You have your view. I have mine. Neither of us sees the full 2023 team.

[notin]

I like Brantley as a DH and back up LF'er, but we need a big RH'd bat.

 

I’m not sold on needing a big RHH bat.

 

A big bat, yes. But with the overwhelming majority of pitchers being right-handed, the loss of the shift, and the elimination of the LOOGY, I’m fine with a big left-handed bat as well…

[notin]

We took the time to learn the names Tanaka and Matsui. His name is Masataka Yoshida. You will come to remember his name.

 

Our LF is better.

Our CF is better.

Or RF is better.

Our DH could easily be about the same.

Our 1B is way better.

Our pen, which you failed to mention, is better even when subtracting Whitlock and Strahm.

Our 2B should be better with improved health.

3B should be about the same.

 

We have $40M left to try and make up for the loss of Bogey and Nate.

 

You have your view. I have mine. Neither of us sees the full 2023 team.

 

We got a leadoff hitter and a closer. We should be better at the beginning of games and the end as well.

 

Time to pitch up the middle!

[moonslav59]

The RHH options for DH are all players like Duvall, Mancini, Gary Sanchez, JD, Sano, Wil Myers.

 

The LHH options are better - Brantley, Conforto (if he can be the pre-2021 Conforto), Dom Smith and the criminally underrated Brandon Belt.

 

Guess what OF'er has the 18th best OPS vs LHPs with 150+ PAs since 2020?

 

.861 Rob Refsnyder

 

15. Haniger .885

20. Mookie .862

24. Suzuki .847

25. Acuna Jr. .847

26. Springer .843

30. J Soto .835

32. Soler .828 (salary dump)

36. Av Garcia .821 (salary dump)

 

 

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

It seemed many were happy the day before Bogey departed, and really, at that time, how many felt we were going to sign him after paying Yoshida?

 

MLBTR was making it sound like negotiations were going well with Bogey, so I think a lot of us were optimistic.

 

But it turned out to be just another joke played on us by our clown show front office.

[Bellhorn04]

We took the time to learn the names Tanaka and Matsui. His name is Masataka Yoshida. You will come to remember his name.

 

Our LF is better.

Our CF is better.

Or RF is better.

Our DH could easily be about the same.

Our 1B is way better.

Our pen, which you failed to mention, is better even when subtracting Whitlock and Strahm.

Our 2B should be better with improved health.

3B should be about the same.

 

We have $40M left to try and make up for the loss of Bogey and Nate.

 

So $35M for Correa. That leaves $5M to replace Nate, Wacha and Hill. No sweat.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

MLBTR was making it sound like negotiations were going well with Bogey, so I think a lot of us were optimistic.

 

But it turned out to be just another joke played on us by our clown show front office.

 

The beat writers who cover the Red Sox daily have been noticeably bitter because they were so misled the day before by Boston execs that Bogey was going to re-sign. They all posted rosy reports, then after midnight the CBO was off the rose.

 

It's not just fans that are pissed. And though we're all human and have bad days, it's one thing to make mistakes -- but nobody wants to be lied to. Ever. Not by a friend, spouse, president or ballclub. Just tell us the truth -- we can handle it.

Edited December 10, 2022 by 5GoldGloves:OF,75

[notin]

So $35M for Correa. That leaves $5M to replace Nate, Wacha and Hill. No sweat.

 

 

If the Sox are going to stick to being under the limit, Correa won’t work.

 

They need to be looking at players like Andrus, Kiermaier, Brian Anderson, Belt, Narvaez.

 

They might need to move Verdugo for a pitcher.

 

Or maybe sign Fulmer or Yarbrough and trade Houck…

[notin]

The beat writers who cover the Red Sox daily have been noticeably bitter because they were so misled the day before by Boston execs that Bogey was going to re-sign. They all posted rosy reports, that after midnight the CBO was off the rose.

 

It's not just fans that are pissed. And though we're all human and have bad days, it's one thing to make mistakes -- but nobody wants to be lied to. Ever. Not by a friend, spouse, president or ballclub. Just tell us the truth -- we can handle it.

 

If the Sox even said “we are not sure Bogaerts has a future here” or “we want better defense at shortstop”, it would have been understandable. Agree with them or not, at least it looks like it’s about baseball…

[Bellhorn04]

If the Sox are going to stick to being under the limit, Correa won’t work.

 

If the plan is to stay under the limit, the plan is to suck. Maybe that's the best plan anyway. Trade Devers, tank, build for 2025. Hopefully Henry and Werner sell the team.

[notin]

MLBTR was making it sound like negotiations were going well with Bogey, so I think a lot of us were optimistic.

 

But it turned out to be just another joke played on us by our clown show front office.

 

And the thing is, a lot of this negative PR goes away if they just extend Devers…

[Bellhorn04]

The beat writers who cover the Red Sox daily have been noticeably bitter because they were so misled the day before by Boston execs that Bogey was going to re-sign. They all posted rosy reports, then after midnight the CBO was off the rose.

 

It's not just fans that are pissed. And though we're all human and have bad days, it's one thing to make mistakes -- but nobody wants to be lied to. Ever. Not by a friend, spouse, president or ballclub. Just tell us the truth -- we can handle it.

 

The Red Sox have been providing entertainment to the whole sports world about this. The funniest part is that their final offer was apparently outbid by about 5 other teams. Not even in the same zip code. And then we have the stunned Bloom at the airport. Just an amazing clown show.

[Bellhorn04]

And the thing is, a lot of this negative PR goes away if they just extend Devers…

 

Yes, for about 15 minutes. It could come right back when the season starts and the team stinks.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And the thing is, a lot of this negative PR goes away if they just extend Devers…

 

Just blow past the tax, like the billionaires on other teams are doing. It's their money, so who f***ing cares.

 

If you can afford an estate in Tuscany for more than you just paid the Japanese Juan Soto, then you can afford to put happy faces in your laundry and your box seats.

[Hugh2]

Just blow past the tax, like the billionaires on other teams are doing. It's their money, so who f***ing cares.

 

If you can afford an estate in Tuscany for more than you just paid the Japanese Juan Soto, then you can afford to put happy faces in your laundry and your box seats.

 

It’s not about blowing past the tax line as much as it’s about being able to get under.

 

Even LA resets, and I speculate they’re going to this year.

 

That takes them out of the running for Correa I believe. Sox could hypothetically sign Correa, a pitcher, extend Devers, and reset next year. They do t have to this year, and they’ll have another 70 million to spend next year (minus contractual commitments taking them over this year)

[Bellhorn04]

Just blow past the tax, like the billionaires on other teams are doing. It's their money, so who f***ing cares.

 

If you can afford an estate in Tuscany for more than you just paid the Japanese Juan Soto, then you can afford to put happy faces in your laundry and your box seats.

 

And Steve Cohen is laughing at the Steve Cohen Tax. Good thing he didn't buy the Yankees from Hal.

[Hugh2]

Sox are still $110 million under NEXT years cap, which is the year they’ll need to reset if they stay over next.

 

Henry doesn’t have the balls to do this, but they could easily go Correa/Senga/extend Devers.

 

I think Sox fans would be happy with that offseason, and it would go a long way to mitigate the loss of a star homegrown talent like Bogey.

[Bellhorn04]

Sox are still $110 million under NEXT years cap, which is the year they’ll need to reset if they stay over next.

 

Henry doesn’t have the balls to do this, but they could easily go Correa/Senga/extend Devers.

 

I think Sox fans would be happy with that offseason, and it would go a long way to mitigate the loss of a star homegrown talent like Bogey.

 

And why should we think Henry is going to do such nice things after booting Betts and Bogey?

[Hugh2]

And why should we think Henry is going to do such nice things after booting Betts and Bogey?

 

Who thinks that?