Time For the Hypo Trade Talks to Begin ?

[moonslav59]

Sox fans would all like to see more stability in the bullpen, but apparently the front office chooses not to invest money or prospects to improve that department... most likely since they survived a brutal April and are right back in the hunt for that extra wild card spot. Remember, Cora never lets the lack of relievers get in his way to go deep in the playoffs -- and management keeps telling us there are vets and young arms coming in the second half from within (to help with the autumn conversion of starters to rovers or closers).

 

They also haven't replaced Schwarber's bat -- yet -- but they will. The Yankees, on the other hand, had two great months so far... but what were their major additions from last year, besides a shortstop who doesn't suck. With basically the same lineups (sans Gardner), NY and Boston are tied with most runs per game in the AL. Both offenses are middle of the pack in strikeouts, and take advantage of their home parks: Yanks lead in HRs, Sox in doubles.

 

As usual it comes down to the pitching staffs. Boston's rebuilt rotation has been surprisingly solid. The Yanks return their same rotation, and the bullpen is missing maybe their top three injured relievers. So why are so many pinstriped pitchers having career years? Is it just because they're throwing to any other catcher not named Sanchez?

 

Deep down inside, do Yankee fans really expect Cortes and Holmes to battle each other for the Cy Young and MVPs for the rest of this season, and their careers, and waltz into Cooperstown together, arm-in-arm, 15-20 years from now?

 

They spent some on the pen. Barnes extension. Diekman. Strahm. They will likely move Hill to the pen when Sale/Paxton return.

 

They chose to spend on the rotation, since we lost 3 starters.

 

They chose to replace Marwin, Santana, Chavis and others with Story.

 

I don't think they had enough in the budget to do everything.

 

Yes, they chose to spend less on the pen and more elsewhere. Only the JBJ salary addition looks like it could have been replaceable.

[notin]

I could see Jarren Duran for Josh Staumont…

[Maxbialystock]

The Sox missed the WS by 2 games, which was much better than the Yanks.

 

They added Wacha & Hill to replace Richards & Perez.

They hope Sale/Paxton can replace ERod.

They added Story over Marwin, Santana, Chavis & others.

 

I think you are selling our chances short.

 

Do we have weaknesses? Yes, like all AL teams do. We also have a chance to fix those weakness from within the system and with a couple mov es at the deadline.

 

You guys peaked early.

 

Watch out!

 

Well said. moonslav, the great defender.

 

However, you are also the one who more than once has stated the Sox will not keep JDM, Bogey, and Devers through the end of this season. If 2 of those 3 are gone, so are the Sox chances of doing anything in the postseason.

[mvp 78]

Then grab Mancini from the Os for Mata and Walter.

 

LOL wut?

[jacksonianmarch]

Sox fans would all like to see more stability in the bullpen, but apparently the front office chooses not to invest money or prospects to improve that department... most likely since they survived a brutal April and are right back in the hunt for that extra wild card spot. Remember, Cora never lets the lack of relievers get in his way to go deep in the playoffs -- and management keeps telling us there are vets and young arms coming in the second half from within (to help with the autumn conversion of starters to rovers or closers).

 

They also haven't replaced Schwarber's bat -- yet -- but they will. The Yankees, on the other hand, had two great months so far... but what were their major additions from last year, besides a shortstop who doesn't suck. With basically the same lineups (sans Gardner), NY and Boston are tied with most runs per game in the AL. Both offenses are middle of the pack in strikeouts, and take advantage of their home parks: Yanks lead in HRs, Sox in doubles.

 

As usual it comes down to the pitching staffs. Boston's rebuilt rotation has been surprisingly solid. The Yanks return their same rotation, and the bullpen is missing maybe their top three injured relievers. So why are so many pinstriped pitchers having career years? Is it just because they're throwing to any other catcher not named Sanchez?

 

Deep down inside, do Yankee fans really expect Cortes and Holmes to battle each other for the Cy Young and MVPs for the rest of this season, and their careers, and waltz into Cooperstown together, arm-in-arm, 15-20 years from now?

 

I expect Cortes to be a reliable starting pitcher as long as he doesn't get hurt. In terms of Holmes, have you seen his stuff? He throws a 100mph sinker that moves a foot and then a wipeout slider. I expect him to continue to dominate as long as he stays healthy.

 

The difference between the Yanks and Sox in the rotation is night and day. Yanks have established #1 or #2 starters in their first four slots of the rotation who are all in their prime and then just added Cortes, who this year is the overall #1. Removing Sanchez and putting competent defenders at C only added to their effectiveness. Their starting pitching is on pace for a legendary season. Their pen is missing some guys, but that just shows you their depth. Chad Green, a borderline all star reliever, has been out 19 days now. Chapman has been out 2 weeks. Prior to his Achilles struggles, he was a world beater. Loaisiga went down with a shoulder issue and he has been a mess from the rip. Even with all that, they are third in BP ERA in baseball. Holmes has been the best reliever on the planet this year. Peralta has been awesome. King has been awesome. Clarke Schmidt has been awesome. Castro has been erratic but effective. Luetge's fallen off. Green is down for the count. Loaisigia and Chap are still on the IL. JP Sears has thrown 7 shutout innings and looks the part. Banuelos just came up, and he is the kind of reclamation story everyone loves. And the Yanks have Wesneski and Waldichuk killing it in AAA.

[dgalehouse]

Why am I tickled pink? Because your GM did very little to improve the team after an ALCS run with the intention (it seems) to replace Bogaerts. If you take Bogey to the wire and he hits FA as a red sock, you get a fourth round pick back. If you have the chance to unload him in a trade, you should get at least one top 100 prospect, maybe more. If the Sox don’t get to deal Eovaldi, JD, Kike, etc the value goes away at end of the year rather than continue to pay dividends into the future. And right now, the Yanks are a far, far better team. So the worry that the Sox will somehow morph into a true threat is low as I don’t think Bloom will deal off his big pieces in the minors. Also, I don’t think the Sox can catch the Yanks. It’s a big difference going from a one game playoff in Fenway to a 5 game set with home field for the Yanks and the Sox having to go through 2 games just to survive there. This extra wild card has created a much bigger impediment to winning the ALDS as you’ve now got to burn your two best starters if you aren’t WC 1.

 

Now, I respect your GM. He’s dynamite at picking winners, especially in trades. If given the amount of trade capital a slumping Sox team could offer, he could make trades that have you back in championship form in 2-3 years. I don’t want that.

There is no disputing the fact that the Yankees are a very good team. But there should be no doubt that the Red Sox would be very dangerous in a playoff series. I am sure that is a concern to all Yankee fans dreaming of a championship.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They spent some on the pen. Barnes extension. Diekman. Strahm. They will likely move Hill to the pen when Sale/Paxton return.

 

They chose to spend on the rotation, since we lost 3 starters.

 

They chose to replace Marwin, Santana, Chavis and others with Story.

 

I don't think they had enough in the budget to do everything.

 

Yes, they chose to spend less on the pen and more elsewhere. Only the JBJ salary addition looks like it could have been replaceable.

 

Your response to my post chronicles moves made last year or over the winter. But my response was to Jacksonian's post refers to "this Red Sox team" not being title contenders right now "without major additions."

 

The thing about Bloom is that his additions usually aren't major, at least not in the immediate. The Sox are back in it, and the trade deadline is almost two months away, but fans are already bracing to be whelmed... like last summer, when he added two meh relievers and a power bat with no position who wasn't even available until mid-August.

 

Then two of them contributed down the stretch. And now, the third is making his mark this season.

[moonslav59]

Your response to my post chronicles moves made last year or over the winter. But my response was to Jacksonian's post refers to "this Red Sox team" not being title contenders right now "without major additions."

 

The thing about Bloom is that his additions usually aren't major, at least not in the immediate. The Sox are back in it, and the trade deadline is almost two months away, but fans are already bracing to be whelmed... like last summer, when he added two meh relievers and a power bat with no position who wasn't even available until mid-August.

 

Then two of them contributed down the stretch. And now, the third is making his mark this season.

 

Last year, Schwarber was "major" and Robles/Davis were significant additions. (They also expected Sale to be an "addition.")

 

It's hard for a GM to pull of a deal in May.

[mvp 78]

Last year, Schwarber was "major" and Robles/Davis were significant additions. (They also expected Sale to be an "addition.")

 

It's hard for a GM to pull of a deal in May.

 

Davis had a 4.86 ERA in 16.2 innings last season. Not sure that's significant in a good way.

[Bellhorn04]

Davis had a 4.86 ERA in 16.2 innings last season. Not sure that's significant in a good way.

 

We're using ERA now?

[mvp 78]

We're using ERA now?

 

Is this better?

 

1.50 WHIP

[mvp 78]

We're using ERA now?

 

Until the come with with CatcherFIP for moon, we're going to have to reference ERA every once in a while whether you like it or not old man.

[Old Red]

We're using ERA now?

 

I didn’t know ERA ever went away. Either way Davis was not significant.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Old Red

[notin]

Your response to my post chronicles moves made last year or over the winter. But my response was to Jacksonian's post refers to "this Red Sox team" not being title contenders right now "without major additions."

 

The thing about Bloom is that his additions usually aren't major, at least not in the immediate. The Sox are back in it, and the trade deadline is almost two months away, but fans are already bracing to be whelmed... like last summer, when he added two meh relievers and a power bat with no position who wasn't even available until mid-August.

 

Then two of them contributed down the stretch. And now, the third is making his mark this season.

 

So no “major” additions, just players who contribute?

 

I would disagree with saying his additions aren’t major. Sure there not all big sexy names making piles of cash for a ton of season (like Story, for example) but haven’t Pivetta, Whitlock, and Wacha pitched as well as pretty much everyone who did sign an L&L contract this past seasons

[moonslav59]

Davis had a 4.86 ERA in 16.2 innings last season. Not sure that's significant in a good way.

 

Yes, he had about 4-5 bad games out of 19, last year, but he's not been bad, this year.

 

Strike him from my post, and add Iggy & Shaw, then.

[MADSTORK]

I expect Cortes to be a reliable starting pitcher as long as he doesn't get hurt. In terms of Holmes, have you seen his stuff? He throws a 100mph sinker that moves a foot and then a wipeout slider. I expect him to continue to dominate as long as he stays healthy.

 

The difference between the Yanks and Sox in the rotation is night and day. Yanks have established #1 or #2 starters in their first four slots of the rotation who are all in their prime and then just added Cortes, who this year is the overall #1. Removing Sanchez and putting competent defenders at C only added to their effectiveness. Their starting pitching is on pace for a legendary season. Their pen is missing some guys, but that just shows you their depth. Chad Green, a borderline all star reliever, has been out 19 days now. Chapman has been out 2 weeks. Prior to his Achilles struggles, he was a world beater. Loaisiga went down with a shoulder issue and he has been a mess from the rip. Even with all that, they are third in BP ERA in baseball. Holmes has been the best reliever on the planet this year. Peralta has been awesome. King has been awesome. Clarke Schmidt has been awesome. Castro has been erratic but effective. Luetge's fallen off. Green is down for the count. Loaisigia and Chap are still on the IL. JP Sears has thrown 7 shutout innings and looks the part. Banuelos just came up, and he is the kind of reclamation story everyone loves. And the Yanks have Wesneski and Waldichuk killing it in AAA.

 

“Your a Legend in your own mind”

 

Skanks have the biggest weakness of all the playoff teams at the moment

Boone

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So no “major” additions, just players who contribute?

 

I would disagree with saying his additions aren’t major. Sure there not all big sexy names making piles of cash for a ton of season (like Story, for example) but haven’t Pivetta, Whitlock, and Wacha pitched as well as pretty much everyone who did sign an L&L contract this past seasons

 

Jax is the one who said these Sox can't contend without major additions. I replied Bloom's moves usually don't start out major... but they do have a habit of mattering more as time progresses, don't they? All of the pitchers you named are examples of acquisitions hardly noticed or ignored initially that have eventually looked better and better.

 

In the final minutes of last summer's trade deadline, nobody here was anointing Robles and Davis as the bullpen saviors. Weeks later, most of us were saying they were both busts. But Robles was a positive factor down the stretch, and Davis is this season.

 

As for Schwarber, we all knew he was a primetime power hitter after his first-half surge in the NL, but few thought the longball was an area of need. Plus, he was injured when acquired. And he wasn't even a first baseman... but it all worked out, at least by October.

[moonslav59]

Jax is the one who said these Sox can't contend without major additions. I replied Bloom's moves usually don't start out major... but they do have a habit of mattering more as time progresses, don't they? All of the pitchers you named are examples of acquisitions hardly noticed or ignored initially that have eventually looked better and better.

 

In the final minutes of last summer's trade deadline, nobody here was anointing Robles and Davis as the bullpen saviors. Weeks later, most of us were saying they were both busts. But Robles was a positive factor down the stretch, and Davis is this season.

 

As for Schwarber, we all knew he was a primetime power hitter after his first-half surge in the NL, but few thought the longball was an area of need. Plus, he was injured when acquired. And he wasn't even a first baseman... but it all worked out, at least by October.

 

Don't forget...

 

Iggy .915 OPS + great D in 23 games

 

Shaw .843 OPS and steady D in 28 games

 

[notin]

Don't forget...

 

Iggy .915 OPS + great D in 23 games

 

Shaw .843 OPS and steady D in 28 games

 

 

John Schreiber, too.

 

But especially Wacha and Pivetta. Folks were down on Pivetta as recently as early May…

[Larry Cook]

John Schreiber, too.

 

But especially Wacha and Pivetta. Folks were down on Pivetta as recently as early May…

 

Hang’em Chaim is amazingly patient when it comes to players. He gives them proper time to figure it out, Probably one of his least publicized traits.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Don't forget...

 

Iggy .915 OPS + great D in 23 games

 

Shaw .843 OPS and steady D in 28 games

 

 

Jose Iglesias was probably the most underrated Red Sox when the club kicked into its playoff drive down the stretch in 2021. The main reason he's already forgotten by some is he wasn't allowed to play in the postseason. We all welcomed him back, but Joe Churches knew he was still good enough to start somewhere and get paid for it.

 

Shaw had the one big walk-off grand slam (after Barnes blew a top of the 9th lead), and a key pinch-hit in the final frame of the ALDS. But he faded fast this spring...

 

A lefty-swinging, actual first baseman, whose hitting skills are somewhere in between Shaw and Schwarber, shouldn't be too difficult to land to fortify the roster in the next month. Waiting until the last minute of the trade deadline might be too late, because of the monster AL East schedule Boston has to play throughout July.

[Bellhorn04]

Shaw had the one big walk-off grand slam (after Barnes blew a top of the 9th lead), and a key pinch-hit in the final frame of the ALDS. But he faded fast this spring...

 

Some folks suggested he ate too well this winter...

[mvp 78]

Some folks suggested he ate too well this winter...

 

Aging slugger on the wrong side of 30. He was the oldest 32 year old I've ever seen.

 

Since the start of 2019, he's not been a viable MLB player though.

[Bellhorn04]

Aging slugger on the wrong side of 30. He was the oldest 32 year old I've ever seen.

 

Since the start of 2019, he's not been a viable MLB player though.

 

"Viable" - I like that one too.

[mvp 78]

"Viable" - I like that one too.

 

He deserved that going away party last season in Fenway. Maybe he even deserved another extended run this year. It just wasn't meant to be. I think he got way more out of his career than anyone of us expected when he was first called up.

[moonslav59]

John Schreiber, too.

 

But especially Wacha and Pivetta. Folks were down on Pivetta as recently as early May…

 

One poster, in particular, has had it out for Nick since day one.

 

Nick's had some down moments, for sure, but has usually kept them to 2-4 game stretches. He's really pitched like a 2-3 starter for much of his time with Boston. As a 4-5, he's one of MLB's best.

[moonslav59]

John Schreiber, too.

 

But especially Wacha and Pivetta. Folks were down on Pivetta as recently as early May…

 

My comment was specifically aimed at last year's deadline and later moves (Iggy & Shaw).

 

Schreiber and Wacha came after. Pivetta before.

[harmony]

An Over the Monster podcast discusses potential Red Sox trade targets:

 

https://www.overthemonster.com/2022/6/10/23162366/the-red-seat-podcast-early-trade-targets

[Meh]

https://nesn.com/2022/06/four-realistic-trade-targets-for-red-sox-to-consider-as-deadline-nears/

[moonslav59]

BTV accepted this multi-team deal:

 

To BOS

RHP Bednar

SP J Quintana

C Rodrigues (prospect)

1B Josh Bell

 

To PIT

Duran

Dalbec

Downs

Gonzalez

Jimenez

Milas (C prospect from WSH)

 

To WSH

Jordan

 

We get a decent rental SP'er in Quintana, a solid RHP in Bednar with several years of team control remaining, a solid 1B rental in Bell and a possible catcher for the future in Rodriquez.

 

We give up more than Bloom would likely do, but this deal might make us top contenders, if other players are stepping up their game and one of Sale or Paxton are contributing. It allows Whitlock to return to the pen along with using Bednar is a pen role. Bell gives us a reliable 1Bman for 2+ months.