Time For the Hypo Trade Talks to Begin ?

[vegasbob]

Now that the Red Sox got back to the same point they started the season (even W-L's) and technically in a Wild Card position , entering the serious Path To Relevance, is it time to begin the discussion on hypothetical trades by August 2, 4PM EDT ?

 

The needs are generally the same as during the short ST. First base , although Franchy has made a move to stick around , Bobby Dalbec has not .

Relief pitching with consistency , and some better defined roles

RH hitting OF'er with power or good OBP

 

Then the matter of expiring/option contracts affecting some major players on this team, particularly JD Martinez, Bogaerts, Eovaldi, Hernandez.

 

Next is which guys from WooSox may actually be ready to play a meaningful role in the second half, avoiding the need for a trade . Duran, Winchowski or _______?

 

Although the starters as a whole have become effective , will Chris Sale ever again contribute to this team being a better than .500 winner?

 

Finally, which idiot GM would take Matt Barnes and payoff Bloom's unfortunate timing.

Edited June 6, 2022 by vegasbob

[notin]

1. Trade Barnes for an overpaid 1b. Even one who is struggling offensively can help by knowing when to leave the bag for an errant throw. Franchy is not there yet. Wil Myers fit the bill perfectly as a trade candidate, but he went on the IL today.

 

2. Franklin German is the best candidate to help the Sox.

 

3. While maybe not at 1b, Cordero definitely needs to stay in the lineup.

 

4. Dalbec needs to go to Worcester and justify his place on the 40 man roster. He looks more like Will Middlebrooks every day, although probably not enough to fool Jenny Dell...

[vegasbob]

In an out of left field thought , could the Sox deal Chris Sale to a fringe playoff team or desperate GM , like Perry Minasian of the Angels. Obviously subject to medical eval and probably Sale's ok.

[jacksonianmarch]

This thread tickles me pink. I really want the sox to be buyers at the deadline, not sellers.

[moonslav59]

4. Dalbec needs to go to Worcester and justify his place on the 40 man roster. He looks more like Will Middlebrooks every day, although probably not enough to fool Jenny Dell...

 

Because Dalbec is being platooned and plays the short side of the platoon, I don't think people have realized he has been doing well.

 

.885 in last 25 PAs and .852 in last 30 PAs. (.726 last 59 PAs isn't bad either.)

 

This is NOT the time to send him down. It might be the time to play him more often, and Cordero more often in the OF.

[moonslav59]

 

2. Franklin German is the best candidate to help the Sox.

 

Agreed.

[moonslav59]

1. Trade Barnes for an overpaid 1b. Even one who is struggling offensively can help by knowing when to leave the bag for an errant throw. Franchy is not there yet. Wil Myers fit the bill perfectly as a trade candidate, but he went on the IL today.

 

Trade Barnes for a RH'd OF'er, who could also be Wil Myers, if he wasn't hurt.

 

Keep Dalbec and Cordero playing 1B, and use Cordero in the OF vs some RH'd pitchers.

[moonslav59]

This thread tickles me pink. I really want the sox to be buyers at the deadline, not sellers.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

If we can pick up a RH'd Schwarber and solid RP'er, we may just beat your asses, again.

 

Your point is well taken, though. The longer term outlook of the Sox would be improved, if we were sellers, instead of buyers.

[harmony]

Trade Barnes for a RH'd OF'er, who could also be Wil Myers, if he wasn't hurt.

 

Keep Dalbec and Cordero playing 1B, and use Cordero in the OF vs some RH'd pitchers.

FWIW Baseball Trade Values has Matt Barnes at median value of a negative $15.5 million and Wil Myers at a negative $8.2 million.

 

The 27-27 Red Sox, whom FanGraphs gives a 44.6 percent chance of advancing to the postseason, might be more desperate than the 33-21 San Diego Padres, whom FanGraphs gives a 91.1 percent chance of advancing to the postseason.

[moonslav59]

FWIW Baseball Trade Values has Matt Barnes at median value of a negative $15.5 million and Wil Myers at a negative $8.2 million.

 

The 27-27 Red Sox, whom FanGraphs gives a 44.6 percent chance of advancing to the postseason, might be more desperate than the 33-21 San Diego Padres, whom FanGraphs gives a 91.1 percent chance of advancing to the postseason.

 

A lot depends on the other team thinking they can "fix" Barnes.

 

BTV accepted:

 

Barnes, Crawford & Ward

 

for

 

Myers

Suarez

[moonslav59]

BTV accepted these trades:

 

Winckowski & Feltman

for

Mancini (rental) & D Tate (3+ yrs)

 

and

 

Verdugo & Barnes

for

Schwarber & Vieling

 

and

 

Duran, Dalbec, Downs & Lugo

for

Montas & Trivino

[harmony]

A lot depends on the other team thinking they can "fix" Barnes.

A trade would suggest that the Red Sox have given up "fixing" Matt Barnes after his 11 years in the Boston organization.

[moonslav59]

A trade would suggest that the Red Sox have given up "fixing" Matt Barnes after his 11 years in the Boston organization.

 

Indeed.

 

I doubt we trade him, because maybe nobody knows how to fix him, and maybe the Sox think there's a chance he can become just the pre start to 2021 Barnes- a decent set-up guy.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post

This thread tickles me pink. I really want the sox to be buyers at the deadline, not sellers.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

If we can pick up a RH'd Schwarber and solid RP'er, we may just beat your asses, again.

 

Your point is well taken, though. The longer term outlook of the Sox would be improved, if we were sellers, instead of buyers.

 

Disagree with both... why would a Yankee fan want the Red Sox to improve this year? You know...Boston, the team that has eliminated New York the last three times they've faced each other in the postseason.

 

And the point about an improved longterm outlook being tied to sellers over buyers is mere speculation. But since we're all about opinions here, mine is that there's a better chance of the Sox improving if they make moves to improve now, and maybe advance to another round or two this Fall.

 

The excitement generated by winning in a city and throughout a fanbase (as opposed to the pain or at least mediocrity of a rebuild) certainly makes a location more attractive to prospective free agents. Now someone is going to argue that all pro athletes really care about is money.

[moonslav59]

Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post

This thread tickles me pink. I really want the sox to be buyers at the deadline, not sellers.

 

 

 

Disagree with both... why would a Yankee fan want the Red Sox to improve this year? You know...Boston, the team that has eliminated New York the last three times they've faced each other in the postseason.

 

And the point about an improved longterm outlook being tied to sellers over buyers is mere speculation. But since we're all about opinions here, mine is that there's a better chance of the Sox improving if they make moves to improve now, and maybe advance to another round or two this Fall.

 

The excitement generated by winning in a city and throughout a fanbase (as opposed to the pain or at least mediocrity of a rebuild) certainly makes a location more attractive to prospective free agents. Now someone is going to argue that all pro athletes really care about is money.

 

Of course being sellers creates just speculative value for the future, but like it or not, it would improve our long term outlook, which is all speculative with prospects of vets.

[jacksonianmarch]

Why am I tickled pink? Because your GM did very little to improve the team after an ALCS run with the intention (it seems) to replace Bogaerts. If you take Bogey to the wire and he hits FA as a red sock, you get a fourth round pick back. If you have the chance to unload him in a trade, you should get at least one top 100 prospect, maybe more. If the Sox don’t get to deal Eovaldi, JD, Kike, etc the value goes away at end of the year rather than continue to pay dividends into the future. And right now, the Yanks are a far, far better team. So the worry that the Sox will somehow morph into a true threat is low as I don’t think Bloom will deal off his big pieces in the minors. Also, I don’t think the Sox can catch the Yanks. It’s a big difference going from a one game playoff in Fenway to a 5 game set with home field for the Yanks and the Sox having to go through 2 games just to survive there. This extra wild card has created a much bigger impediment to winning the ALDS as you’ve now got to burn your two best starters if you aren’t WC 1.

 

Now, I respect your GM. He’s dynamite at picking winners, especially in trades. If given the amount of trade capital a slumping Sox team could offer, he could make trades that have you back in championship form in 2-3 years. I don’t want that.

Edited June 7, 2022 by jacksonianmarch

[moonslav59]

Why am I tickled pink? Because your GM did very little to improve the team after an ALCS run with the intention (it seems) to replace Bogaerts. If you take Bogey to the wire and he hits FA as a red sock, you get a fourth round pick back. If you have the chance to unload him in a trade, you should get at least one top 100 prospect, maybe more. If the Sox don’t get to deal Eovaldi, JD, Kike, etc the value goes away at end of the year rather than continue to pay dividends into the future. And right now, the Yanks are a far, far better team. So the worry that the Sox will somehow morph into a true threat is low as I don’t think Bloom will deal off his big pieces in the minors. Also, I don’t think the Sox can catch the Yanks. It’s a big difference going from a one game playoff in Fenway to a 5 game set with home field for the Yanks and the Sox having to go through 2 games just to survive there. This extra wild card has created a much bigger impediment to winning the ALDS as you’ve now got to burn your two best starters if you aren’t WC 1.

 

Now, I respect your GM. He’s dynamite at picking winners, especially in trades. If given the amount of trade capital a slumping Sox team could offer, he could make trades that have you back in championship form in 2-3 years. I don’t want that.

 

So, you guys should trade Judge, and Sox fans would be sad?

[jacksonianmarch]

Different situations. Yanks are on a March for the title. I’m pretty sure most Sox fans would agree that this Sox team, without major additions, are not title contenders

[Nick]

I'd consider getting healthy Sale back as a major pickup. Who knows, Paxton and Taylor also. Pitching wins in big games.

[Jasonbay44]

I'd consider getting healthy Sale back as a major pickup. Who knows, Paxton and Taylor also. Pitching wins in big games.

 

I’m not sure we’ll ever see a “healthy Sale” again, or at the very least not the Chris Sale were used too.

 

I doubt Paxton makes any impact this year. He’s pitched 6 total games last two seasons, to an era over 6 and is now 33 coming off another major injury.

[jacksonianmarch]

Paxton is a tantalizing talent who cannot stay healthy nor return from injury on time

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Different situations. Yanks are on a March for the title. I’m pretty sure most Sox fans would agree that this Sox team, without major additions, are not title contenders

 

Sox fans would all like to see more stability in the bullpen, but apparently the front office chooses not to invest money or prospects to improve that department... most likely since they survived a brutal April and are right back in the hunt for that extra wild card spot. Remember, Cora never lets the lack of relievers get in his way to go deep in the playoffs -- and management keeps telling us there are vets and young arms coming in the second half from within (to help with the autumn conversion of starters to rovers or closers).

 

They also haven't replaced Schwarber's bat -- yet -- but they will. The Yankees, on the other hand, had two great months so far... but what were their major additions from last year, besides a shortstop who doesn't suck. With basically the same lineups (sans Gardner), NY and Boston are tied with most runs per game in the AL. Both offenses are middle of the pack in strikeouts, and take advantage of their home parks: Yanks lead in HRs, Sox in doubles.

 

As usual it comes down to the pitching staffs. Boston's rebuilt rotation has been surprisingly solid. The Yanks return their same rotation, and the bullpen is missing maybe their top three injured relievers. So why are so many pinstriped pitchers having career years? Is it just because they're throwing to any other catcher not named Sanchez?

 

Deep down inside, do Yankee fans really expect Cortes and Holmes to battle each other for the Cy Young and MVPs for the rest of this season, and their careers, and waltz into Cooperstown together, arm-in-arm, 15-20 years from now?

[Bellhorn04]

The Yanks return their same rotation, and the bullpen is missing maybe their top three injured relievers. So why are so many pinstriped pitchers having career years? Is it just because they're throwing to any other catcher not named Sanchez?

 

It sure looks like that's part of it.

 

That trade was probably one of the best moves of Cashman's career.

 

He fixed catcher, shortstop and second base all at once.

[notin]

Different situations. Yanks are on a March for the title. I’m pretty sure most Sox fans would agree that this Sox team, without major additions, are not title contenders

 

I love the capitalization March. Freudian slip?

Edited June 7, 2022 by notin

[notin]

Yeah my typing is never gonna win any awards…

[Meh]

If the sox made a mega deal for quintana and Bednar for Casas and Bello and added in maybe Downs and another lottery ticket that might get it down. Would allow Bednar and Whitlock to form a bullpen which could give the Yankees a run for their money.

 

Then grab Mancini from the Os for Mata and Walter.

 

 

Another trade which could benefit them is Luis Cessa of the Reds.

[notin]

In an out of left field thought , could the Sox deal Chris Sale to a fringe playoff team or desperate GM , like Perry Minasian of the Angels. Obviously subject to medical eval and probably Sale's ok.

 

With 0 IP this year and 2 years $55mill left, Sale might not be the most enticing trade chip…

[notin]

If the sox made a mega deal for quintana and Bednar for Casas and Bello and added in maybe Downs and another lottery ticket that might get it down. Would allow Bednar and Whitlock to form a bullpen which could give the Yankees a run for their money.

 

Then grab Mancini from the Os for Mata and Walter.

 

 

Another trade which could benefit them is Luis Cessa of the Reds.

 

Both deals are lopsided against the Sox.

 

BTV would have the Sox dealing $76mill surplus value to acquire $48mill. And Baltimore gettting $8mill surplus value while giving up $2.3mill.

 

I do doubt Baltimore deals Mancini, as his story has made him a legend among their fans.

 

With the Pirates deal, Bednar is a good target. Quintana much less so, especially since he’s fallen back to Earth after an insane start. Per BTV, Bednar alone would cost Bello and Downs plus a lottery ticket. That’s not an unreasonable price but it doesn’t mean the Sox would want to pay it. Throwing in Quintana doesn’t equate to throwing in Casas, however…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If the sox made a mega deal for quintana and Bednar for Casas and Bello and added in maybe Downs and another lottery ticket that might get it down. Would allow Bednar and Whitlock to form a bullpen which could give the Yankees a run for their money.

 

Then grab Mancini from the Os for Mata and Walter.

 

 

Another trade which could benefit them is Luis Cessa of the Reds.

 

Appreciate the proposals, but as I said yesterday, I just can't see trading either Bello or Mata. The Red Sox PR machine has always overrated its prospects -- possibly to deceive some other org into parting with a higher return in swaps -- but the combo of velo and arsenal for these two trends towards top of the rotation potential.

 

The Sox haven't had two arms on the rise at the same time like this since maybe Papelbon and Lester. Boston has several other decent pitching prospects on the farm that I might trade for a big league reliever. But to me, the minimum return for a top pitching prospect would have to be another young big league-ready bonafide arm or a starting position player, each with similar years of control.

[moonslav59]

Different situations. Yanks are on a March for the title. I’m pretty sure most Sox fans would agree that this Sox team, without major additions, are not title contenders

 

The Sox missed the WS by 2 games, which was much better than the Yanks.

 

They added Wacha & Hill to replace Richards & Perez.

They hope Sale/Paxton can replace ERod.

They added Story over Marwin, Santana, Chavis & others.

 

I think you are selling our chances short.

 

Do we have weaknesses? Yes, like all AL teams do. We also have a chance to fix those weakness from within the system and with a couple mov es at the deadline.

 

You guys peaked early.

 

Watch out!