A Realistic View at 2022: Part III

[Old Red]

Ok Boston won last night but I would not get too excited about what Barnes or any other pitcher did. Just as Eck said, Pittsburgh had a Triple A lineup. Let's keep everything in perspective.

 

Well said, and nothing less than a sweep will be a lost opportunity. Pittsburg would have fit in with the fantasy month of June opposition.

[jad]

Ok Boston won last night but I would not get too excited about what Barnes or any other pitcher did. Just as Eck said, Pittsburgh had a Triple A lineup. Let's keep everything in perspective.

 

But then, that's exactly what the RS announcers (can't remember whether it was tv or radio) said about the "embarrassing" Tampa Bay lineup, i.e., the lineup that swept the lowly RS. So there's improvement!

[mvp 78]

"Anticipating a breakdown" sounds like booing to me.

 

No.

[mvp 78]

Despite my smart alec remarks, I think you are right.

 

Yes.

[Bellhorn04]

Any MLB team can beat any other MLB team on any given day. Pittsburgh swept 3 from Milwaukee earlier this month.

[vegasbob]

Look a little closer at that "pounding" of the Pirates last night. The 4 run first inning featured 2 bad fielding plays by Pitts( 5 outs), , a couple walks and 4 singles with runners going one base at a time because JDM and Devers cannot run well now.

 

After adding a run in the 2nd, Boston then went 7 innings with no hits at all, looking somewhat disinterested in the proceedings.

 

Pivetta threw his own 7 inning , one hit shutout which was great. But then Davis risked the whole game , including Schreiber allowing an inherited runner to score . Barnes, however, was very efficient closing the 9th on just 10 pitches. So , it took 3 pitchers to finish of the last 6 outs against a truly weak lineup. One foul pole HR could have turned this game inside out.

 

It was a win , and quite welcome, but Boston is still missing some spark to give confidence in a strong finish.

[moonslav59]

Look a little closer at that "pounding" of the Pirates last night. The 4 run first inning featured 2 bad fielding plays by Pitts( 5 outs), , a couple walks and 4 singles with runners going one base at a time because JDM and Devers cannot run well now.

 

After adding a run in the 2nd, Boston then went 7 innings with no hits at all, looking somewhat disinterested in the proceedings.

 

Pivetta threw his own 7 inning , one hit shutout which was great. But then Davis risked the whole game , including Schreiber allowing an inherited runner to score . Barnes, however, was very efficient closing the 9th on just 10 pitches. So , it took 3 pitchers to finish of the last 6 outs against a truly weak lineup. One foul pole HR could have turned this game inside out.

 

It was a win , and quite welcome, but Boston is still missing some spark to give confidence in a strong finish.

 

Lots of good things happened in that game, too- not just Pivetta.

[Maxbialystock]

By what metric is it the worst? I think 2012 was the worst. We won't count 2020.

 

On second thought, thank you very much for bringing up 2012, which I had thankfully forgotten.

 

My thanks are because the 2012 Boston Red Sox finished @ 69-93, the worst season in the John Henry era. Interestingly, however, is that the 2012 Sox scored the 8th most runs in MLB that year and had the 11th best team OPS.

 

So let's compare the 2012 and 2022 Sox teams. Both had lousy pitching: 2012 had the 27th worst ERA in MLB, and so far 2022 has the 25th worst team ERA. However, the 2012 hitting--8th in runs scored and 11th in team OPS--was actually better than the 2022 Sox who are 12th in runs scored and 12th in team OPS.

 

But, what the hey, let's just say neither team, 2012 or 2022, could pitch worth a darn and neither had enough hitting to make up for the pitching deficit.

 

Except, except. The 2022 team is one game below .500 even though they are playing in the toughest division in MLB--the other 4 AL East teams have winning records--and play each of those teams 19 times.

 

And the 2012 team finished 69-93, 24 freaking games below .500. Plus, back then the AL East wasn't even the toughest division in AL, let alone MLB. The AL West was actually tougher.

 

And that leads me to my point. I have defended the management of this year's bullpen for the simple reason that I think Alex Cora is one smart manager.

 

And I now contend that every other Talksoxer who believes that Alex Cora has mismanaged his bullpen by not making a reliable closer his number 1 priority simply does not know what he or she is talking about.

 

To remind. I have also repeatedly (ad nauseum, actually) reminded everyone that the same manager basically had no closer in the 2021 postseason which vastly exceeded any reasonable expectations. Everyone on Talksox has dismissed that as so much blather--Cora was lucky, it was only 11 games, and he's still incompetent.

[Elktonnick]

Lots of good things happened in that game, too- not just Pivetta.

 

Not really, the only good thing was the win.

 

Here is how some of our key players have been doing: Some results from the start of August through the Yankee series last weekend,

 

Xander - .208-1 homer, 4 hits

JD - .205-0-6 - not including 0-2 Tues

Raffi - .167-3-7 - not including 0-3 Tues

Duran - .179-2-8 - not including 0-3 Tues

Hosmer - .192-0-2 - not including 1-3 Tues

Plawecki - .103-0-1

 

Like I said before JD continues to look as if he is auditioning to play the robot in Lost in Space. Devers swings from his heels on every pitch and Bogey with few exceptions looks clinically depressed. Cora appears exhausted.

 

What really saved them last night was a Pirates pitcher who could not throw strikes and a Pirates defense that could not catch fly balls. Hey I loved the win. But I am not thrilled about how they won i

[moonslav59]

 

To remind. I have also repeatedly (ad nauseum, actually) reminded everyone that the same manager basically had no closer in the 2021 postseason which vastly exceeded any reasonable expectations. Everyone on Talksox has dismissed that as so much blather--Cora was lucky, it was only 11 games, and he's still incompetent.

 

It's not blather, but it has been repeated so often, I think posters are tiring of it and don't see it as the be-all-end-all point the ends the discussion. It is but one series that resulted in lost series, despite no blown saves. It is a point in support of your position, and I think most people see it for what it is: one point out of many on your side, and that there are many good points on the other side, too.

[moonslav59]

Not really, the only good thing was the win.

 

Here is how some of our key players have been doing: Some results from the start of August through the Yankee series last weekend,

 

Xander - .208-1 homer, 4 hits

JD - .205-0-6 - not including 0-2 Tues

Raffi - .167-3-7 - not including 0-3 Tues

Duran - .179-2-8 - not including 0-3 Tues

Hosmer - .192-0-2 - not including 1-3 Tues

Plawecki - .103-0-1

 

Like I said before JD continues to look as if he is auditioning to play the robot in Lost in Space. Devers swings from his heels on every pitch and Bogey with few exceptions looks clinically depressed. Cora appears exhausted.

 

What really saved them last night was a Pirates pitcher who could not throw strikes and a Pirates defense that could not catch fly balls. Hey I loved the win. But I am not thrilled about how they won i

 

I know most of "the good" centered around just Pivetta and Barnes, but we did only allow 4 hits and 4BBs to the Pirates. 27 outs. 8 men let on base.

 

No fielding errors made. No major running blunders. Both good things.

 

We got some key hits with men ins coring position, which is something we have lacked, this year. 4 RBis and only 7 men LOB. Good, right?

 

Kike did us a favor by not K'ing 3 times. He only K'd twice and GIDP his other time! LOL, but seriously, he did get an RBI Sac Fly. Not sexy, but good.

 

JD & Hosmer did get on base half the time.

 

Pham got 2 hits.

 

OK, Schreiber had a bad pitch, out of 12 pitches (the 2B,) but I thought he actually pitched well.

 

Barnes was enough for me to see an overall plus, last night.

[Maxbialystock]

Look a little closer at that "pounding" of the Pirates last night. The 4 run first inning featured 2 bad fielding plays by Pitts( 5 outs), , a couple walks and 4 singles with runners going one base at a time because JDM and Devers cannot run well now.

 

After adding a run in the 2nd, Boston then went 7 innings with no hits at all, looking somewhat disinterested in the proceedings.

 

Pivetta threw his own 7 inning , one hit shutout which was great. But then Davis risked the whole game , including Schreiber allowing an inherited runner to score . Barnes, however, was very efficient closing the 9th on just 10 pitches. So , it took 3 pitchers to finish of the last 6 outs against a truly weak lineup. One foul pole HR could have turned this game inside out.

 

It was a win , and quite welcome, but Boston is still missing some spark to give confidence in a strong finish.

 

Agree on "missing some spark," only I would say the team needs some heat and is currently either lukewarm or tepid. Certainly the hitting last night, despite the 5 runs, was tepid at best. Thus, as you say, the Sox were hitless for the last 7 inning.

[Old Red]

Not really, the only good thing was the win.

 

Here is how some of our key players have been doing: Some results from the start of August through the Yankee series last weekend,

 

Xander - .208-1 homer, 4 hits

JD - .205-0-6 - not including 0-2 Tues

Raffi - .167-3-7 - not including 0-3 Tues

Duran - .179-2-8 - not including 0-3 Tues

Hosmer - .192-0-2 - not including 1-3 Tues

Plawecki - .103-0-1

 

Like I said before JD continues to look as if he is auditioning to play the robot in Lost in Space. Devers swings from his heels on every pitch and Bogey with few exceptions looks clinically depressed. Cora appears exhausted.

 

What really saved them last night was a Pirates pitcher who could not throw strikes and a Pirates defense that could not catch fly balls. Hey I loved the win. But I am not thrilled about how they won i

 

And Schreiber had to be brought into the game when he really needed the rest.

[Maxbialystock]

I know most of "the good" centered around just Pivetta and Barnes, but we did only allow 4 hits and 4BBs to the Pirates. 27 outs. 8 men let on base.

 

No fielding errors made. No major running blunders. Both good things.

 

We got some key hits with men ins coring position, which is something we have lacked, this year. 4 RBis and only 7 men LOB. Good, right?

 

Kike did us a favor by not K'ing 3 times. He only K'd twice and GIDP his other time! LOL, but seriously, he did get an RBI Sac Fly. Not sexy, but good.

 

JD & Hosmer did get on base half the time.

 

Pham got 2 hits.

 

OK, Schreiber had a bad pitch, out of 12 pitches (the 2B,) but I thought he actually pitched well.

 

Barnes was enough for me to see an overall plus, last night.

 

I think you are way too optimistic about the hitting, but agree the pitching was excellent (except for Davis of course). The Schreiber pitch for a double was actually not that bad. Just a very good swing by Gamel, kind of like that really, really low pitch Devers golfed into the stands a week or so ago.

[Bellhorn04]

Not really, the only good thing was the win.

 

And Pivetta.

[moonslav59]

I think you are way too optimistic about the hitting, but agree the pitching was excellent (except for Davis of course). The Schreiber pitch for a double was actually not that bad. Just a very good swing by Gamel, kind of like that really, really low pitch Devers golfed into the stands a week or so ago.

 

I'm not saying 5 hits and 4 walks is good offense, but how many times have we had 10-12 hits but none with men is scoring position?

 

We finally maximized our hits, and people seem to just focus on the bad.

 

[Maxbialystock]

It's not blather, but it has been repeated so often, I think posters are tiring of it and don't see it as the be-all-end-all point the ends the discussion. It is but one series that resulted in lost series, despite no blown saves. It is a point in support of your position, and I think most people see it for what it is: one point out of many on your side, and that there are many good points on the other side, too.

 

Agree I've repeated the 2021 postseason tale too many times.

 

But what's new is citing the 2012 team, which finished 24 games below .500 but had a comparable team ERA and better hitting than this team, which is 1 game below .500.

[Elktonnick]

Ok Barnes pitched well against a triple a lineup. I am happy but not impressed.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And Schreiber had to be brought into the game when he really needed the rest.

 

This is the real issue, having to use the same relievers over and over to the point of burn-out. Eck keeps pointing this out.

 

Others point to injuries for the lack of bullpen depth; some point to getting rid of Diekman, but not replacing him.

 

Maybe Strahm returns to help while there's still time.

[moonslav59]

Agree I've repeated the 2021 postseason tale too many times.

 

But what's new is citing the 2012 team, which finished 24 games below .500 but had a comparable team ERA and better hitting than this team, which is 1 game below .500.

 

Max, I'm on your side on this issue. I don't think the lack of a star closer is the major reason we are not closer in the WC race. I do think we could have a few more wins than we have, if we had a better closer, but until someone says at who's expense, I'm not sure about claiming X amount of net wins.

 

Personally, I wish we had used Houck as the closer from day one and never tried the piggy-back idea.

 

I'm okay with using Whitlock as a starter, because we needed him, there, but I wish we could have used him as a high leverage set-up man from day one (multiple innings, too.)

 

Injuries and other factors made a lot of Cora's choices "lose-lose," and I think Bloom deserves some heat for forcing that on Cora.

 

The fact is, we are 50-6 when leading after 8 IP. For anyone to think we'd have more than 4-5 more wins with a solid traditional closer, I'd like to see an explanation. Plus, had we signed a closer, who do we not sign? If we used Houck or Whitlock as a closer, who starts or sets up? How many games do we lose by using someone else in those open roles?

 

This is not an easy thing to prove from either side.

[Bellhorn04]

This is the real issue, having to use the same relievers over and over to the point of burn-out. Eck keeps pointing this out.

 

Others point to injuries for the lack of bullpen depth; some point to getting rid of Diekman, but not replacing him.

 

Maybe the thinking was that Barnes was replacing Diekman. Plus Diekman was awful, so replacing him wasn't a big deal.

[moonslav59]

Ok Barnes pitched well against a triple a lineup. I am happy but not impressed.

 

Happiness is a good thing.

 

Can we all agree on that?

[moonslav59]

Maybe the thinking was that Barnes was replacing Diekman. Plus Diekman was awful, so replacing him wasn't a big deal.

 

Remember we used DHern, first, and he was actually worse than the horror show Diekman was.

[Elktonnick]

Happiness is a good thing.

 

Can we all agree on that?

Only when it doesn't cloud good judgment.

Let me put it this way, last night's win was better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

[Old Red]

Max, I'm on your side on this issue. I don't think the lack of a star closer is the major reason we are not closer in the WC race. I do think we could have a few more wins than we have, if we had a better closer, but until someone says at who's expense, I'm not sure about claiming X amount of net wins.

 

Personally, I wish we had used Houck as the closer from day one and never tried the piggy-back idea.

 

I'm okay with using Whitlock as a starter, because we needed him, there, but I wish we could have used him as a high leverage set-up man from day one (multiple innings, too.)

 

Injuries and other factors made a lot of Cora's choices "lose-lose," and I think Bloom deserves some heat for forcing that on Cora.

 

The fact is, we are 50-6 when leading after 8 IP. For anyone to think we'd have more than 4-5 more wins with a solid traditional closer, I'd like to see an explanation. Plus, had we signed a closer, who do we not sign? If we used Houck or Whitlock as a closer, who starts or sets up? How many games do we lose by using someone else in those open roles?

 

This is not an easy thing to prove from either side.

I know we have beaten this subject to death, and it doesn’t seem to want to go away. I think everyone has their opinions set pretty much in stone, and it isn’t going to be changed, and I’m not going to try, but on two different other venues it was said this week that the biggest mistake the Red Sox made this season was putting Whitlock in the starting rotation, and I think Eck agrees too. Once again I’m just putting this out is to show what’s out in other parts of Red Sox Nation.

[mvp 78]

Ok Barnes pitched well against a triple a lineup. I am happy but not impressed.

 

And Davis pitching so horribly against that lineup should have put him directly on waivers.

[Elktonnick]

And Davis pitching so horribly against that lineup should have put him directly on waivers.

 

LOL. Watching Davis pitch I thought to myself "Yea he looked like an ex Pirate pitcher."

[moonslav59]

LOL. Watching Davis pitch I thought to myself "Yea he looked like an ex Pirate pitcher."

 

Hey, the Pirates just DFA'd Austin Brice, so how bad can they be?

[Larry Cook]

Hey, the Pirates just DFA'd Austin Brice, so how bad can they be?

 

If Hang’em Chaim even jokes about resigning this clown, someone in the baseball operations department needs to take a baseball bat upside Hang’em Chaim’s head!

[Elktonnick]

Hey, the Pirates just DFA'd Austin Brice, so how bad can they be?

Bad enough that they thought he would help them in the first place.