Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

And I cannot count the times I was criticized for disliking Matt Barnes consistently since about 2019, even if he was pitching well for a brief half season.

 

With rare exception he was an intellectually challenged, gutless loser who get rewarded and then fell apart helping to make my point. He could not throw strikes when it counted and was Mr. Wild Pitch on his overthrown curve balls, looking goofy in the act . His gross tendency to fall off to his left side during throwing, left his arm dragging behind eliminating all possibilities of a good pitch or fielding his position on a bouncer back to the mound.

 

Hope he saved some of his $10M contract because he will need it in his later years. I'm thankful to have seen through this fraud from the beginning.

 

After 4.5 good seasons, you could finally say you were right. Congrats!

[mvp 78]

Just to change the subject:

 

@Phillies

Additionally, RHP Noah Song, currently on the 60-day injured list with a low back strain, had his rehab assignment transferred from single-A Clearwater to double-A Reading.

 

https://www.milb.com/player/noah-song-679977

 

Song is throwing in the low 90's, down from a few years ago. Once his rehab is up, he'll need to be put on the active roster or put back on the IL. Rumor is that DD is unwilling to give him up no matter what. Song's upside now may only be middle reliever going forward.

[vegasbob]

After 4.5 good seasons, you could finally say you were right. Congrats!

 

Good things come to those who wait.

[moonslav59]

It’s not good that our guy sucked

[Bellhorn04]

It’s not good that our guy sucked

 

Barnes didn't suck, he was just disappointing.

[moonslav59]

Barnes didn't suck, he was just disappointing.

 

Either way, it was not "good thing" that came to any Sox fan "waiting."

[Bellhorn04]

Either way, it was not "good thing" that came to any Sox fan "waiting."

 

Agreed. Unfortunately, many of us do single out players we don't like, and I'm including myself (McGuire).

 

Barnes did a fine job for us at times, and one of those times was the 2018 postseason. I'd certainly buy him a beer or two.

[Bellhorn04]

My opinion of Bloom has been falling and rising this year based on the performance of the team on the field, which is kind of strange and not really fair, but I can't seem to help it.

[mvp 78]

My opinion of Bloom has been falling and rising this year based on the performance of the team on the field, which is kind of strange and not really fair, but I can't seem to help it.

 

He's decent at building the farm. He's not good at building a competitive MLB roster. I think we can agree on those two points.

[Bellhorn04]

He's decent at building the farm. He's not good at building a competitive MLB roster. I think we can agree on those two points.

 

At times the 2023 team does look competitive, especially with the emergence of Bello and Paxton, and, hopefully, the resolution of the SS situation. Too bad Houck and Whitlock are injured. But every team has injuries. Will Bloom get us a starting pitcher? Now I'm mumbling...

[mvp 78]

At times the 2023 team does look competitive, especially with the emergence of Bello and Paxton, and, hopefully, the resolution of the SS situation. Too bad Houck and Whitlock are injured. But every team has injuries. Will Bloom get us a starting pitcher? Now I'm mumbling...

 

He can acquire a starting pitcher for sure. You just will not like the mileage on the arm.

[mvp 78]

Also, we all knew there was significant injury risk to how Bloom constructed this starting rotation. It's not a surprise that it's falling apart.

[moonslav59]

He's decent at building the farm. He's not good at building a competitive MLB roster. I think we can agree on those two points.

 

Bloom certainly has not worked wonders with the MLB rosters over his 3.5 years at the helm. I'm not sure a single poster thinks he has.

 

The difficulties handed him, to me, are some pretty massive mitigating circumstances.

 

It's very hard for any GM to rebuild a roster with virtually no farm help in 5 consecutive years- 2.5 of which started before you even took over. Part of the reason we have seen little farm help, until Bello & Casas were called up and Duran "matured" is because Bloom chose to draft nearly all HS kids in the early rounds. That's on him, but it's hard for me to hold that against any GM, as long as those kids remain very promising- like many still are. He did bring some farm infusion through Rule 5 and trades (Whitlock, Wink, Wong and some minor pieces,) but so far, we have not seen much of Bloom's farm making an impact at the MLB level.

 

When you have just Houck helping from the farm in a 5 year period (from Devers to Bello/Casas), the only way you really have to rebuild the MLB roster is through signings, waiver wires and trades. In this area Bloom has done somewhere between s*****, a mixed bag or okay, depending on each poster's point of view and expectations going into each season. The mandated Betts with Price deal was a tough way for any GM to keep the MLB roster producing at a high level, oou of the gate. The injury issues to guys like Sake, ERod, Nate and a few other carry-over players and an almost total decline by every vet handed to Bloom, except Devers and a few others, only made his task of building a MLB winner ASAP much more difficult. (BTW, even Devers saw his best season in 2019, under DD- not Bloom.) That being said, Bloom made some horrible choices: the JBJ trade, Barnes extension, the Story (so far) Richards and Kluber signings, the Diekman, Marwin and several more lower level signings as well as some overall philosophical/directional spending that often missed the mark, like not enough on the pen in '22, and not enough on the rotation in '23. Signing injury-prone SP'ers mostly backfired, soo. He did, however, make a few very nice signings and additions. I still think he won the Dugo/Wong trade, and the Winckowski trade might prove to be better than we thought, at first. These were good deals: Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Renfroe, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Jansen, Martin, Yoshida (so far) and trades for Pivetta, Ottavino, the ones I mentioned and maybe more, once we find out what some prospects end up doing. Clearly, the overall grade here is neither an A or an F, considering the situation.

 

Thirdly, the budget was a pretty big mess, when he took over, when you look at sunken costs and lessening production from almost all the higher paid players. The massive budget cut before 2020, then slow release of funds afterwards made rebuilding the MLB roster into a strong contender, virtually impossible, in my view. Yes, Bloom could have done better. He was supposed to be good at finding bargains. He largely swung and missed on bargain basement additions. Again, what should be expected from low level signings? Yes, Bloom could have chosen to sign more quality than quantity, but our roster depth was in shambles by 2020. I doubt we'd have won, had we signed a $16M/1 pitcher, instead or Richards and Perez, combined, or a $17M/1 pitcher instead of Kluber and Duvall.

 

Last year, we heard so much about the pen being the main reason for our losing record. Bloom did a very good job fixing it, and it could have been even better had Whitlock, Houck and or Crawford been able to pitch from the pen, all year. Bloom seems to have done a pretty good job with the offense, and if Story was healthy, Turner at 1B and Yoshida at DH with Duvall in LF, our defense would actually no be bad. Having 4 SSs hurt at the same time is hard for any GM to overcome, but he did know about 2 of the injuries, beforehand.

 

All-in-all, I do not think Bloom deserves a free pass. There were severe mitigating circumstances, but he mostly failed or did not do wonders dealing with any of them. Hopefully, his farm building will start making a difference, but even that may not be until 2025 or 2026, and he may be long gone, by then. (Kinda like Ben.)

 

[moonslav59]

At times the 2023 team does look competitive, especially with the emergence of Bello and Paxton, and, hopefully, the resolution of the SS situation. Too bad Houck and Whitlock are injured. But every team has injuries. Will Bloom get us a starting pitcher? Now I'm mumbling...

 

Look at what a difference getting significant help from 3 farm hands can make- Bello, Duran & Casas, and Casas is not a big plus WAR guy, yet.

 

Imagine if we had gotten 2-3 guys like them in 2020, 2021 and 2022, as well.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom certainly has not worked wonders with the MLB rosters over his 3.5 years at the helm. I'm not sure a single poster thinks he has.

 

The difficulties handed him, to me, are some pretty massive mitigating circumstances.

 

It's very hard for any GM to rebuild a roster with virtually no farm help in 5 consecutive years- 2.5 of which started before you even took over. Part of the reason we have seen little farm help, until Bello & Casas were called up and Duran "matured" is because Bloom chose to draft nearly all HS kids in the early rounds. That's on him, but it's hard for me to hold that against any GM, as long as those kids remain very promising- like many still are. He did bring some farm infusion through Rule 5 and trades (Whitlock, Wink, Wong and some minor pieces,) but so far, we have not seen much of Bloom's farm making an impact at the MLB level.

 

When you have just Houck helping from the farm in a 5 year period (from Devers to Bello/Casas), the only way you really have to rebuild the MLB roster is through signings, waiver wires and trades.

 

From Bloom's perspective, it was a 3 year period with just Houck. Bello/Casas/Duran arrived in Bloom's year 4.

[moonslav59]

From Bloom's perspective, it was a 3 year period with just Houck. Bello/Casas/Duran arrived in Bloom's year 4.

 

I disagree.

 

The fact that no young and cost-effective prospects helped the roster from Devers in mid 2017 to Bloom's take over after the 2019 season had a huge affect on the rebuilding timeline expectation. That was over 2 years of just about nothing. That led to Bloom being handed a roster nearly devoid of top young talent, beyond Devers.

 

You don't think that matters?

 

The 2019 roster's youngest players:

 

22 Devers & DHern

23 Chavis

24 Beni (3 arbs left) & Shawaryn

25 Shaw, Lakins, Lin

 

Devers, Beni and Houck was it. The rest were older vets, some very near free agency or higher arb salaries. Many others saw their production levels decline, even while still within prime years, for some.

 

I keep coming back to expectation levels by us posters back in 2020. I personally believe some had unrealistically high expectations. Some reasons may have been...

 

1. They equated the 2019 roster to the 2018 one, of thought they were nearly identical.

2. They did not realize the effect of the roster going 5 years between Devers and Bello with just about no help beyond Houck.

3. They assumed JH would continue spending like a top 3-5 team, or think Bloom had something to do with budget cuts or bargain basement roster construction strategies.

4. They don't look beyond W-L records. Context is the same as making excuses or "supporting" Bloom.

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by moonslav59

[Maxbialystock]

I disagree.

 

The fact that no young and cost-effective prospects helped the roster from Devers in mid 2017 to Bloom's take over after the 2019 season had a huge affect on the rebuilding timeline expectation. That was over 2 years of just about nothing. That led to Bloom being handed a roster nearly devoid of top young talent, beyond Devers.

 

You don't think that matters?

 

The 2019 roster's youngest players:

 

22 Devers & DHern

23 Chavis

24 Beni (3 arbs left) & Shawaryn

25 Shaw, Lakins, Lin

 

Devers, Beni and Houck was it. The rest were older vets, some very near free agency or higher arb salaries. Many others saw their production levels decline, even while still within prime years, for some.

 

I keep coming back to expectation levels by us posters back in 2020. I personally believe some had unrealistically high expectations. Some reasons may have been...

 

1. They equated the 2019 roster to the 2018 one, of thought they were nearly identical.

2. They did not realize the effect of the roster going 5 years between Devers and Bello with just about no help beyond Houck.

3. They assumed JH would continue spending like a top 3-5 team, or think Bloom had something to do with budget cuts or bargain basement roster construction strategies.

4. They don't look beyond W-L records. Context is the same as making excuses or "supporting" Bloom.

 

 

 

 

Well said. I discount 2020 because of COVID--as well as the absence of Cora--but agree with your points.

 

It also pisses me off that so many Bloom and Cora critics ignore the success of 2021. As I have already said too many times, the 2016 and 2017 teams had far more talent--Mookie, Bogey, Pedey, JBJ, HanRam, Ortiz, Leon/Vazquez, Price, Porcello (Cy Young), Wright, Buchholz, Kimbrel, Sale (2017, but not 2016),etc--than the 2021 Sox, but got killed in the ALDS both years.

[Bellhorn04]

I disagree.

 

The fact that no young and cost-effective prospects helped the roster from Devers in mid 2017 to Bloom's take over after the 2019 season had a huge affect on the rebuilding timeline expectation. That was over 2 years of just about nothing. That led to Bloom being handed a roster nearly devoid of top young talent, beyond Devers.

 

You don't think that matters?

 

What I'm saying is that it hurt Bloom for the years 2020, 2021 and 2022, but not 2023. In 2023 he did have a significant influx of young talent.

 

We're just arguing about the number of years.

[moonslav59]

What I'm saying is that it hurt Bloom for the years 2020, 2021 and 2022, but not 2023. In 2023 he did have a significant influx of young talent.

 

We're just arguing about the number of years.

 

That is a valid point, but the effects of not having much of anything for 5 years carries over and over in a big way. Imagine this team had we called up 2 guys like Bello, Casa, Duran or Houck, every year since the Devers call up in 2017z the roster would have had 8-9 more solid low cost players that would have allowed for more targeted FA signings, instead of trying to fill 10 slots with $30-40M.

 

This years influx shows what a difference it can make. Think of this X 5!

[moonslav59]

Well said. I discount 2020 because of COVID--as well as the absence of Cora--but agree with your points.

 

It also pisses me off that so many Bloom and Cora critics ignore the success of 2021. As I have already said too many times, the 2016 and 2017 teams had far more talent--Mookie, Bogey, Pedey, JBJ, HanRam, Ortiz, Leon/Vazquez, Price, Porcello (Cy Young), Wright, Buchholz, Kimbrel, Sale (2017, but not 2016),etc--than the 2021 Sox, but got killed in the ALDS both years.

 

I see 2021 as an over performance and2022 as an underperformance, so it was basically a wash.

[Bellhorn04]

That is a valid point, but the effects of not having much of anything for 5 years carries over and over in a big way. Imagine this team had we called up 2 guys like Bello, Casa, Duran or Houck, every year since the Devers call up in 2017z the roster would have had 8-9 more solid low cost players that would have allowed for more targeted FA signings, instead of trying to fill 10 slots with $30-40M.

 

This years influx shows what a difference it can make. Think of this X 5!

 

True, but no team has that kind of influx every single year.

[moonslav59]

True, but no team has that kind of influx every single year.

 

Some seem to, but 1 in 5 years has a staggering effect on the current and future rosters. Expecting 4-7 every 5 years might be the norm.

 

Asking a GM to rebuild in the midldle of a drought like that adds some serious context, right?

 

It does not excuse everything.

[Randy Red Sox]

These guys were all brought in by DD

That is a valid point, but the effects of not having much of anything for 5 years carries over and over in a big way. Imagine this team had we called up 2 guys like Bello, Casa, Duran or Houck, every year since the Devers call up in 2017z the roster would have had 8-9 more solid low cost players that would have allowed for more targeted FA signings, instead of trying to fill 10 slots with $30-40M.

 

This years influx shows what a difference it can make. Think of this X 5!

[moonslav59]

These guys were all brought in by DD

 

Yes, I know. They were all acquired over 3.5 years ago.

 

Blooms kids will come eventually.

[MADSTORK]

Whose going to pitch, Mickey Mouse?

 

Name 1 pitching prospect right now in the system that has upside? There ain’t one!

 

Your delusional if you think Bloom is building a contender but in the pink hat world everybody gets a trophy ain’t that right moon?

[notin]

Whose going to pitch, Mickey Mouse?

 

Name 1 pitching prospect right now in the system that has upside? There ain’t one!

 

Your delusional if you think Bloom is building a contender but in the pink hat world everybody gets a trophy ain’t that right moon?

 

 

So you’re saying 2 games out of the wild card is NOT a contender?

[Hugh2]

Whose going to pitch, Mickey Mouse?

 

Name 1 pitching prospect right now in the system that has upside? There ain’t one!

 

Your delusional if you think Bloom is building a contender but in the pink hat world everybody gets a trophy ain’t that right moon?

 

Don’t speak of things you know nothing about, like you actually follow the Sox prospects.

 

Here is one. Luis Perales

[Hugh2]

Pitching is a weakness in the system, at least compared to the position side. But to say there are no prospects with upside is just false.

 

Aside from Perales, Wilkeman Gonzalez, and Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz have upside. There’s other pitching prospects, but these guys have a lot of upside, particularly Perales. FWIW he’s ranked much higher than Bello was when he was his age.

[moonslav59]

Pitching is a weakness in the system, at least compared to the position side. But to say there are no prospects with upside is just false.

 

Aside from Perales, Wilkeman Gonzalez, and Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz have upside. There’s other pitching prospects, but these guys have a lot of upside, particularly Perales. FWIW he’s ranked much higher than Bello was when he was his age.

 

I do think other systems have more highly regarded and ranked pitchers, but it’s hard to put a grade on Bloom’s development program, so early.

[Hugh2]

I do think other systems have more highly regarded and ranked pitchers, but it’s hard to put a grade on Bloom’s development program, so early.

 

Obviously pitching is not our forte, but maybe that is changing because there are som which upside guys these and we are starting to see some success now with Bello/Houck/Whitlock/Wink+

 

You’d be surprised how bad some other systems are too, developing pitching is the hardest thing to do. Good systems get it in my many different ways, it’s not always wasting your first draft pick as some would say.

 

Identifying and bringing a guy like Whitlock in is the exact thing that good systems do.