Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

We have no REAL pitching prospects close to MLB ready and not even any real TOP pitching prospects at any level as far as I can see. That is not to say there are not P that can toss MLB innings but no real high end P prospects. Once Mayer takes over SS then I assume Story moves to 2B.. Where does that leave Yorke?? Devers signed long term. Where does that leave Jordan?? In my view they don't bring much real trade value either. Bloom needs to add young COST CONTROLLED TOP P prospects.

 

You short-change other prospects in our system. Mayer, Rafaela, Yorke and Drohan, Abreu, Guerrero & Fernandez are near ML ready. That's 7 guys, including 3-4 highly regarded prospects plus 3 prospects that have already shown they can help in the bigs: EValdez, Walter, Murphy. That's 10 prospects- with maybe 4-7 with significant promise.

Rafaela is now over 1.000 in AAA. His D is superb. Yorke is doing fine. Drohan has struggled in AAA, but so did Murphy in the second half of 2022. Don't write off all 10.

 

Farther away prospects look very promising, including...

Anthony is skyrocketing on every rankings list.

Bleis got hurt, but he is still highly regarded.

Perales E R-C and Wikelman, who happen to be pitchers, have been shining, of late.

 

[Randy Red Sox]

with all due respect i have already said Mayer and Rafaela are top prospects. Some of the P like Walter and Murphy are nothing but BP arms IMO. I have already stated my views on Yorke and Jordan. Where do they REALLY fit for us going forward?? How many of these guys you have mentioned are top 100 prospects?? Listen I am not saying that Bloom has not improved the overall depth of our farm system because he has. But this team needs more top cost controlled young SP prospects like we have in Bello. The Red Sox have NEVER put a focus on this for MANY years even before Bloom. You can always add hitters and OF guys in FA but top pitching is so hard to acquire other than in the draft. Pitchers available in FA at 28-30 yrs old are simply TJ guys in waiting.

You short-change other prospects in our system. Mayer, Rafaela, Yorke and Drohan, Abreu, Guerrero & Fernandez are near ML ready. That's 7 guys, including 3-4 highly regarded prospects plus 3 prospects that have already shown they can help in the bigs: EValdez, Walter, Murphy. That's 10 prospects- with maybe 4-7 with significant promise.

Rafaela is now over 1.000 in AAA. His D is superb. Yorke is doing fine. Drohan has struggled in AAA, but so did Murphy in the second half of 2022. Don't write off all 10.

 

Farther away prospects look very promising, including...

Anthony is skyrocketing on every rankings list.

Bleis got hurt, but he is still highly regarded.

Perales E R-C and Wikelman, who happen to be pitchers, have been shining, of late.

 

[mvp 78]

with all due respect i have already said Mayer and Rafaela are top prospects. Some of the P like Walter and Murphy are nothing but BP arms IMO. I have already stated my views on Yorke and Jordan. Where do they REALLY fit for us going forward?? How many of these guys you have mentioned are top 100 prospects?? Listen I am not saying that Bloom has not improved the overall depth of our farm system because he has. But this team needs more top cost controlled young SP prospects like we have in Bello. The Red Sox have NEVER put a focus on this for MANY years even before Bloom. You can always add hitters and OF guys in FA but top pitching is so hard to acquire other than in the draft. Pitchers available in FA at 28-30 yrs old are simply TJ guys in waiting.

 

Bello was a top 100 prospect. Perales is close to the top 100 if he can have a fully healthy year.

 

The system is batter heavy and that's where most of the top 100 guys will come from: Mayer, Yorke, Anthony, Rafaela, Bleis (Tell, Cespedes, Zanetello on the horizon).

 

Lots of pitchers these days are simply TJ guys in waiting. Look at some of the top 100 guys who are rehabbing or got TJ this year. There's risk with every pitcher.

 

Sox have a history with developing good hitters. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? Jay Groome? Trey Ball? If you miss on the arms, it's devastating to the draft. Hitters are a more sustainable resource.

[mvp 78]

We have no REAL pitching prospects close to MLB ready and not even any real TOP pitching prospects at any level as far as I can see. That is not to say there are not P that can toss MLB innings but no real high end P prospects. Once Mayer takes over SS then I assume Story moves to 2B.. Where does that leave Yorke?? Devers signed long term. Where does that leave Jordan?? In my view they don't bring much real trade value either. Bloom needs to add young COST CONTROLLED TOP P prospects.

 

Jordan is not a 3B. He's probably not going to be a very good MLBer at this point. He struggles from level to level and he has a slow bat. He's not athletic enough to really play any position but 1B. We'll see how he handles AA.

[moonslav59]

You short-change other prospects in our system. Mayer, Rafaela, Yorke and Drohan, Abreu, Guerrero & Fernandez are near ML ready. That's 7 guys, including 3-4 highly regarded prospects plus 3 prospects that have already shown they can help in the bigs: EValdez, Walter, Murphy. That's 10 prospects- with maybe 4-7 with significant promise.

Rafaela is now over 1.000 in AAA. His D is superb. Yorke is doing fine. Drohan has struggled in AAA, but so did Murphy in the second half of 2022. Don't write off all 10.

 

Farther away prospects look very promising, including...

Anthony is skyrocketing on every rankings list.

Bleis got hurt, but he is still highly regarded.

Perales E R-C and Wikelman, who happen to be pitchers, have been shining, of late.

 

 

In the post I responded to, you mentioned only Mayer and Yorke.

 

We disagree on the drafting pitchers as being essential, when everyday players look to be surer ets, and we have a very good track record with them.

 

We can always trade our everyday prospects for a more sure pitcher, who has already proven he can do well. It's been a winning strategy for 2 decades.

[moonslav59]

Bello was a top 100 prospect. Perales is close to the top 100 if he can have a fully healthy year.

 

The system is batter heavy and that's where most of the top 100 guys will come from: Mayer, Yorke, Anthony, Rafaela, Bleis (Tell, Cespedes, Zanetello on the horizon).

 

Lots of pitchers these days are simply TJ guys in waiting. Look at some of the top 100 guys who are rehabbing or got TJ this year. There's risk with every pitcher.

 

Sox have a history with developing good hitters. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? Jay Groome? Trey Ball? If you miss on the arms, it's devastating to the draft. Hitters are a more sustainable resource.

 

Most of us did not think Murphy and Walter would help the big club, and if they did, we might have expected 2024-2025. I'm not saying they will be great or even good, but how well pitchers do in the minors is not always a great indicator. Houck never put up great numbers on the farm.

 

I still have some hopes for Perales, Drohan, E R-C, Mata and a mess of lower level pitchers. Even with a lot of recent pitching graduates and prospects on the 26, right now, I still like what is on the farm.

 

Our everyday players do look much more promising, but I think we are okay with prospect pitching.

[notin]

Bello was a top 100 prospect. Perales is close to the top 100 if he can have a fully healthy year.

 

The system is batter heavy and that's where most of the top 100 guys will come from: Mayer, Yorke, Anthony, Rafaela, Bleis (Tell, Cespedes, Zanetello on the horizon).

 

Lots of pitchers these days are simply TJ guys in waiting. Look at some of the top 100 guys who are rehabbing or got TJ this year. There's risk with every pitcher.

 

Sox have a history with developing good hitters. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? Jay Groome? Trey Ball? If you miss on the arms, it's devastating to the draft. Hitters are a more sustainable resource.

 

Was Bello ever a top 100 prospect? B-R doesn’t list him as ranked anywhere, but I don’t think they include midseason rankings…

[mvp 78]

Was Bello ever a top 100 prospect? B-R doesn’t list him as ranked anywhere, but I don’t think they include midseason rankings…

 

Jul 11, 2022 — Baseball America released a midseason update of its Top 100 prospects list Monday and ranks the 23-year-old right-hander at No. 24 overall.

[Dipre]

This board would be shocked to learn how much little input guys like Bloom and DD have on bringing in amateur talent.

 

Theo probably never heard of Bogaerts until he was already in the system. Same with DD and Bello. These guys don’t touch that stuff, aside from a first round draft pick it’s the guys in the amateur scouting department making those moves.

 

Bloom can set the overall strategy, and pull the trigger on trades based on information provided for him but aside from MAYBE Teel, Bloom is just learning about a lot of these guys drafted too.

 

So, it’s a little silly to compare DDs system to Blooms. Because it’s not really their systems

 

No, I personally would not be surprised, but I bet you'd be surprised to know it's not really that simple. The CBO determines draft strategy, resource allocation and helps develop the draft/IFA board. Let's not diminish their impact.

[Dipre]

with all due respect i have already said Mayer and Rafaela are top prospects. Some of the P like Walter and Murphy are nothing but BP arms IMO. I have already stated my views on Yorke and Jordan. Where do they REALLY fit for us going forward?? How many of these guys you have mentioned are top 100 prospects?? Listen I am not saying that Bloom has not improved the overall depth of our farm system because he has. But this team needs more top cost controlled young SP prospects like we have in Bello. The Red Sox have NEVER put a focus on this for MANY years even before Bloom. You can always add hitters and OF guys in FA but top pitching is so hard to acquire other than in the draft. Pitchers available in FA at 28-30 yrs old are simply TJ guys in waiting.

 

With all due respect, something tells me you don't really have a grasp on the actual valuation of the current farm system, or why they have assembled it the way they have. MVP is absolutely right in regards to player development by the way, pitchers are a very risky proposition. It's better to develop hitters and sign elite pitchers while trading for your above average guys.

[mvp 78]

No, I personally would not be surprised, but I bet you'd be surprised to know it's not really that simple. The CBO determines draft strategy, resource allocation and helps develop the draft/IFA board. Let's not diminish their impact.

 

And certain GM's were good at getting coffee, while others were good at dressing up as mascots.

[Dipre]

And certain GM's were good at getting coffee, while others were good at dressing up as mascots.

 

Miss Theo every day.

[moonslav59]

Our farm pitching has greatly improved as indicated by all the recent grads and call-ups that have shown promise of more. It may look a bit weakened, due to the amount called up, recently, but I think the signs and trends are moving in the right direction, despite not drafting or signing IFA pitchers as much as batters.

 

To me, I can't see how anyone does not see an improvement. Yes, it would be nice to be a more significant improvement, but here is a graphic:

 

From Buchholz and Masterson (#1's in 2008) to Houck's call up in 2020 (farm of 2017 and later):

 

Michael Bowden, Casey Kelly, Daniel Bard, Nick Hagadone

Felix Doubront

Stolmy Pimental, Drake Britton, Anthony Ranaudo

Kyle Weiland, Matt Barnes, Henry Owens

Allen Webster & Rubby de la Rosa (LAD trade)

Trey Ball, B Workman & B Johnson

ERod (trade)

Anderson Espinoza & Michael Kopech

Jay Groome & Travis Lakins

 

2017>2019

Houck, Beeks, Mata

Shawaryn, Raudes, Scherff, DHern

Feltman, TWard, Aldo Ramirez, Zeferjahn

 

2020 (Bloom, but most are DD prospects)>>>

APRIL '20: Houck, Mata, Groome, Song, Ward, Zeferjahn, Ramirez, Murphy, Bello

APRIL '21: Whitlock, Houck, Seabold, Ward, Ramirez, Mata, Song, Groome, Bazardo

APRIL '22: Bello, Groome\, Mata, Walter, Wikelman, Seabold, Murphy, Crawford, Ward

APRIL '23 (Bello barely graduated), Mata, Perales, Walter, Drohan, Wikelman, E R-C, Murphy, Guerrero

 

Am I being a homer, of is this improvement?

 

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Miss Theo every day.

 

He always had the most flavorful coffee.

[mvp 78]

Miss Theo every day.

 

Larry was the dirt worst... SoxFanForsyth should have pushed him off the Tobin.

[Hugh2]

With all due respect, something tells me you don't really have a grasp on the actual valuation of the current farm system, or why they have assembled it the way they have. MVP is absolutely right in regards to player development by the way, pitchers are a very risky proposition. It's better to develop hitters and sign elite pitchers while trading for your above average guys.

 

That's a spot-on description. young pitchers go bust at the top of the draft more than anyone else. You can always trade for pitching, or play the numbers game at the IFA level where you don't have to wait your turn like a draft.

[Randy Red Sox]

we have 4 last place finishes in the last 10 years so I am not sure how much of a winning strategy it has been.

In the post I responded to, you mentioned only Mayer and Yorke.

 

We disagree on the drafting pitchers as being essential, when everyday players look to be surer ets, and we have a very good track record with them.

 

We can always trade our everyday prospects for a more sure pitcher, who has already proven he can do well. It's been a winning strategy for 2 decades.

[Randy Red Sox]

then why can't the Sox trade for any top SP. Curt Schilling was the last real top SP they were able to trade for. Teams don't trade those guys very often.

That's a spot-on description. young pitchers go bust at the top of the draft more than anyone else. You can always trade for pitching, or play the numbers game at the IFA level where you don't have to wait your turn like a draft.

[Randy Red Sox]

yet being able to draft Jordan seemed to be the selling point for drafting Yorke about 100 spots above where he was ranked.

Jordan is not a 3B. He's probably not going to be a very good MLBer at this point. He struggles from level to level and he has a slow bat. He's not athletic enough to really play any position but 1B. We'll see how he handles AA.

[moonslav59]

we have 4 last place finishes in the last 10 years so I am not sure how much of a winning strategy it has been.

 

I'm just talking about the farm.

 

Did you really expect us to rebuild from a bottom 5 farm to a top 10 in less than 3.5 years?

 

Chosen prospects take time to develop, and then often need more time to mature once called up.

 

Yes, I think this is a long term winning strategy that takes patience- something our society sorely lacks.

[moonslav59]

then why can't the Sox trade for any top SP. Curt Schilling was the last real top SP they were able to trade for. Teams don't trade those guys very often.

 

I'm assuming one of two things:

 

1. They are waiting until they think they are one Curt Schilling away from ring contention.

2. They are trying a new strategy of actually keeping almost all the top prospects until fruition.

 

Castillo was traded last summer.

 

Free agency might be an option, at some point.

[moonslav59]

yet being able to draft Jordan seemed to be the selling point for drafting Yorke about 100 spots above where he was ranked.

 

Do you really think us selecting Yorke and Jordan is such a bad thing that we need to discuss it for pages and pages.

 

I think we did fine with those picks and that draft. If it ends up we swung and missed on that draft, I'd say the others look to make up for it, and then some.

 

Our IFA signings, the last 3.5 years seem to be showing a lot of promise, too.

 

Our farm is ranked about 10th to 15th, despite seeing many recent graduates. I'm not sure why you seem to be obsessed with tearing it down.

[Randy Red Sox]

I am not obsessed with tearing it down but simply stating it is over-rated in my opinion.

Do you really think us selecting Yorke and Jordan is such a bad thing that we need to discuss it for pages and pages.

 

I think we did fine with those picks and that draft. If it ends up we swung and missed on that draft, I'd say the others look to make up for it, and then some.

 

Our IFA signings, the last 3.5 years seem to be showing a lot of promise, too.

 

Our farm is ranked about 10th to 15th, despite seeing many recent graduates. I'm not sure why you seem to be obsessed with tearing it down.

[Dipre]

then why can't the Sox trade for any top SP. Curt Schilling was the last real top SP they were able to trade for. Teams don't trade those guys very often.

 

Who is Josh Beckett?

 

Who is Chris Sale?

[Randy Red Sox]

I will give you Sale but Beckett was a long time ago too. Why can't people see how Tampa and LA are doing it. Tampa hs thrived by drafting and developing their own top young cost controlled P and then after getting several years out of them they deal them for more young P. It has worked pretty well for them for quite a while now. As for the LAD how is it that they can have made the post season for 11 straight years and still have one of the very best farm systems in MLB?? Their GM Friedman was the real mastermind in Tampa IMO.

Who is Josh Beckett?

 

Who is Chris Sale?

[Dipre]

I will give you Sale but Beckett was a long time ago too. Why can't people see how Tampa and LA are doing it. Tampa hs thrived by drafting and developing their own top young cost controlled P and then after getting several years out of them they deal them for more young P. It has worked pretty well for them for quite a while now. As for the LAD how is it that they can have made the post season for 11 straight years and still have one of the very best farm systems in MLB?? Their GM Friedman was the real mastermind in Tampa IMO.

 

Want a list of all of the pitching prospects that have busted with Tampa, LA or Cleveland?

[Hugh2]

we have 4 last place finishes in the last 10 years so I am not sure how much of a winning strategy it has been.

 

And two world series wins. How many teams have 1, let alone 2 in that time frame. By that time frame, one can't argue against the merits paid off by the "strategy" whatever it may be.

[Hugh2]

then why can't the Sox trade for any top SP. Curt Schilling was the last real top SP they were able to trade for. Teams don't trade those guys very often.

 

Two different issues. You will have to ask the Red Sox the answer to that question.

[Dipre]

And two world series wins. How many teams have 1, let alone 2 in that time frame. By that time frame, one can't argue against the merits paid off by the "strategy" whatever it may be.

 

What is common sense, the Red Sox fan asked?

[Hugh2]

Want a list of all of the pitching prospects that have busted with Tampa, LA or Cleveland?

 

If you look at Tampas drafting they've missed on a LOT of guys, but they hit here and there too. It's easier for them to do that with the number of draft picks they get. Sox don't have that luxury.