Fire Bloom .

[notin]

For me this year is different than any other year since before Henry bought the team. I'm bitterly disappointed with the effort that went into this year's team. I'm surprised Henry wouldn't spend more, and my doubts about Bloom's abilities have grown to the point that I may not feel bad about his departure.

 

It's the first time in a long time I've felt this hopeless this early, no question.

 

Really?

 

There’s a lot to like about this team, too.

 

The bullpen has been great and is finally Ort-free.

 

Sale has shown marked improvement in his last 3 starts and might be shaking off 3 years worth of rust.

 

Some of the younger arms (Winckowski, Crawford) that were whipping boys last year are showing they might be good.

 

Yoshida has turned around a horrible start.

 

This team just doesn’t give up.

 

2-0 in extra innings despite giving up the first run in both games. That’s a huge step up over last year.

 

Tied with the Yankees!

 

 

I think they can stay in the postseason hunt.

[moonslav59]

Really?

 

There’s a lot to like about this team, too.

 

The bullpen has been great and is finally Ort-free.

 

Sale has shown marked improvement in his last 3 starts and might be shaking off 3 years worth of rust.

 

Some of the younger arms (Winckowski, Crawford) that were whipping boys last year are showing they might be good.

 

Yoshida has turned around a horrible start.

 

This team just doesn’t give up.

 

2-0 in extra innings despite giving up the first run in both games. That’s a huge step up over last year.

 

Tied with the Yankees!

 

 

I think they can stay in the postseason hunt.

 

I'd add that Verdugo looks for real like the very good player we thought we traded for.

 

Duran might have finally found the approach that works for him. I'm not sure how he improved his defense, so quickly, of if this has just been a lucky streak.

 

Our catchers look to be close to even with the Vaz-Plawecki tandem.

 

I'm still waiting for Bello to put a streak together, but I think he can and will be a big plus for us, this year.

[Hugh2]

I still surprised Raffy signed when he did, and didn’t at least see what FA had to offer. I think he left some money on the table.

 

So you're surprised a guy with one year left before FA would sign an extension?

 

WHy? it was said in here that the Sox should do the same with Bogaerts. But if our perception with players is that they're just going to go to FA then....well every player is different. Some are more willing to extensions than others. Bogaerts was also on his last payday chance. Making an extension for him less likely.

[Maxbialystock]

Really?

 

There’s a lot to like about this team, too.

 

The bullpen has been great and is finally Ort-free.

 

Sale has shown marked improvement in his last 3 starts and might be shaking off 3 years worth of rust.

 

Some of the younger arms (Winckowski, Crawford) that were whipping boys last year are showing they might be good.

 

Yoshida has turned around a horrible start.

 

This team just doesn’t give up.

 

2-0 in extra innings despite giving up the first run in both games. That’s a huge step up over last year.

 

Tied with the Yankees!

 

 

I think they can stay in the postseason hunt.

 

Agree--and I'm looking forward to the Jays series.

[Bellhorn04]

Really?

 

There’s a lot to like about this team, too.

 

The bullpen has been great and is finally Ort-free.

 

Sale has shown marked improvement in his last 3 starts and might be shaking off 3 years worth of rust.

 

Some of the younger arms (Winckowski, Crawford) that were whipping boys last year are showing they might be good.

 

Yoshida has turned around a horrible start.

 

This team just doesn’t give up.

 

2-0 in extra innings despite giving up the first run in both games. That’s a huge step up over last year.

 

Tied with the Yankees!

 

 

I think they can stay in the postseason hunt.

 

My comments were so 2 days ago.

 

This team does indeed keep bouncing back, which is great to see.

[Old Red]

So you're surprised a guy with one year left before FA would sign an extension?

 

WHy? it was said in here that the Sox should do the same with Bogaerts. But if our perception with players is that they're just going to go to FA then....well every player is different. Some are more willing to extensions than others. Bogaerts was also on his last payday chance. Making an extension for him less likely.

 

Only surprised in that Raffy could have gotten more in FA.

[Bellhorn04]

Only surprised in that Raffy could have gotten more in FA.

 

Quite possibly. Based on what we know, though, he wanted to stay in Boston. And as has been pointed out, bad things can happen in one year. It was a good deal all the way around.

[Old Red]

Quite possibly. Based on what we know, though, he wanted to stay in Boston. And as has been pointed out, bad things can happen in one year. It was a good deal all the way around.

 

I get all that, and that had already been discussed, but after he saw what Bogey got, and he was worth more than Bogey I just thought he would play out the string like most do.

[Maxbialystock]

I'd add that Verdugo looks for real like the very good player we thought we traded for.

 

Duran might have finally found the approach that works for him. I'm not sure how he improved his defense, so quickly, of if this has just been a lucky streak.

 

Our catchers look to be close to even with the Vaz-Plawecki tandem.

 

I'm still waiting for Bello to put a streak together, but I think he can and will be a big plus for us, this year.

 

A lotta good signs, agreed. I'll take Wong over Vazquez any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

Biggest surprises have come from what I call the "no-name" offense, which currently is ranked 3d in MLB in runs scored. That's better than the marquee offenses of the Dodgers, Jays, Angels, Yankees, Astros, Padres, Phillies, etc.

[Maxbialystock]

I get all that, and that had already been discussed, but after he saw what Bogey got, and he was worth more than Bogey I just thought he would play out the string like most do.

 

That's agent talk because agents only get a small percentage of the player's salary. The simple fact is that Raffy is fixed for life with a stupendous guaranteed contract.

[moonslav59]

My comments were so 2 days ago.

 

This team does indeed keep bouncing back, which is great to see.

 

What a major difference this site shows when we are 1 game over .500 vs 1 game below.

[jad]

I still surprised Raffy signed when he did, and didn’t at least see what FA had to offer. I think he left some money on the table.

 

So you would pass up $300million guaranteed in hopes of getting 10% more? knowing that one blown out knee would mean you get nothing?

[Hugh2]

Only surprised in that Raffy could have gotten more in FA.

 

That’s often the case, which is why a lot of guys elect to go to FA pretty much no matter what they’re offered. Not surprised that people who are the best of the best at what they do in the world might have that “bet on themselves” mentality.

[mvp 78]

That’s often the case, which is why a lot of guys elect to go to FA pretty much no matter what they’re offered. Not surprised that people who are the best of the best at what they do in the world might have that “bet on themselves” mentality.

 

So the guys that take the money and don't go to FA are what then? Do they not believe in themselves?

 

Raffy doesn't care? Mike Trout doesn't think he'd make enough money if he hit FA? Mookie Betts is just dumb? Nolan Arenado doesn't want to be a winner? Bregman? Altuve?

[Old Red]

So the guys that take the money and don't go to FA are what then? Do they not believe in themselves?

 

Raffy doesn't care? Mike Trout doesn't think he'd make enough money if he hit FA? Mookie Betts is just dumb? Nolan Arenado doesn't want to be a winner? Bregman? Altuve?

 

That’s one way to look at it, but more than not go to the highest bidder. Money talks to make them walk, but some do take a little less to stay at home. Judge was one, and Raffy was another. I would say Judge got a pretty good raise from what the Yankees offered him a year earlier, and I would say Bogey got a pretty healthy raise from that great offer the Red Sox had put out there.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Old Red

[jad]

That’s one way to look at it, but more than not go to the highest bidder. Money talks to make them walk, but some do take a little less to stay at home. Judge was one, and Raffy was another. I would say Judge got a pretty good raise from what the Yankees offered him a year earlier, and I would say Bogey got a pretty healthy raise from that great offer the Red Sox had put out there.

 

devers did not 'take less to stay home.' He took guaranteed money THIS year rather than speculate about what he might have made next year.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'd add that Verdugo looks for real like the very good player we thought we traded for.

 

 

Well, he was our top WAR monger in 2020, and even received an MVP vote.

 

That's one good youngster Bloom acquired in trade, and I was adamant we were getting him in the Betts deal. Remember when other posters or writers thought the best we could do was AJ Pollock or Dom Smith or guys the Yanks wanted to dump like Don't-Call-Me-Clint Frazier or Miguel Andujar?

 

Come on, for 12 years of Mookie? Seriously, would the Friedman Dodgers or anyone ever swap one of their best prospects for just two months of Mookie...

 

As for Wong, good for Bloom again. At the time, Connor was at best LA's third-best catching prospect, behind Will Smith and Keibert Ruiz.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Verdugo is looking great, but let's not pretend that all of a sudden Mookie sucks. Betts has more XBHs, and is just starting to heat up.

 

Yes, Mookie has played middle infield half the time -- not because he's a versatile utility man, but because he's LA's best player. He has zero errors for the first-place Dodgers.

[Old Red]

Verdugo is looking great, but let's not pretend that all of a sudden Mookie sucks. Betts has more XBHs, and is just starting to heat up.

 

Yes, Mookie has played middle infield half the time -- not because he's a versatile utility man, but because he's LA's best player. He has zero errors for the first-place Dodgers.

 

Agree. Dugo is playing real good ball right now, but he never has, is, or will be as good as Mookie Betts. A lot cheaper right now too, but i wouldn’t jump just yet, and offer him a contract on how he’s looked so far this season.

[mvp 78]

Agree. Dugo is playing real good ball right now, but he never has, is, or will be as good as Mookie Betts. A lot cheaper right now too, but i wouldn’t jump just yet, and offer him a contract on how he’s looked so far this season.

 

If they extended him, it wouldn't be for 300M.

 

5/65? Less years?

[Old Red]

If they extended him, it wouldn't be for 300M.

 

5/65? Less years?

That would be a great deal for the Sox, but I’m not so sure for Dugy.

[Hugh2]

If they extended him, it wouldn't be for 300M.

 

5/65? Less years?

 

Omg no, I don't even know if 5/100 gets it done. What do we think Dugo would get in FA right now? he's going into his prime.

[Hugh2]

I'd start at 5/90 buying out his last arby year and see if he bites on that. He might, Verdugo strikes me as the type of guy who does not start slacking once he gets paid. I think he rewards the team.

[Hugh2]

Verdugo was on pace for a 6 WAR season a few years ago and then get all fancy and tried to change his physique last year. Even his down years were decent. Just coming into his prime, if he has a good season this year AND next he's getting paid a f*** ton of money. Not Betts money obviously but if a guy is in the middle of his prime a team is going to weigh his last 1-2 years more than what he did years prior.

 

Listen, we play this game EVERY time. When we were talking about extending Bogey, EVERYONE in here was throwing numbers around like 6/130 or less. I was the only ******* who said "ya'll are crazy, he's asking for 10/300 and it's going to take something in that ballpark to stop him from getting to free agency" I didn't think he would get that much, my prediction was 7/215, in the end it was closer than what anyone else was throwing around.

 

As a general rule, whatever you think a guy is worth, DOUBLE it, that's what he's getting in FA. If you don't like it, well you can complain about trading him or let him walk and get a draft pick.

[mvp 78]

Omg no, I don't even know if 5/100 gets it done. What do we think Dugo would get in FA right now? he's going into his prime.

 

Why would he get a higher AAV than Bryan Reynolds?

[mvp 78]

Verdugo was on pace for a 6 WAR season a few years ago and then get all fancy and tried to change his physique last year. Even his down years were decent. Just coming into his prime, if he has a good season this year AND next he's getting paid a f*** ton of money. Not Betts money obviously but if a guy is in the middle of his prime a team is going to weigh his last 1-2 years more than what he did years prior.

 

Listen, we play this game EVERY time. When we were talking about extending Bogey, EVERYONE in here was throwing numbers around like 6/130 or less. I was the only ******* who said "ya'll are crazy, he's asking for 10/300 and it's going to take something in that ballpark to stop him from getting to free agency" I didn't think he would get that much, my prediction was 7/215, in the end it was closer than what anyone else was throwing around.

 

As a general rule, whatever you think a guy is worth, DOUBLE it, that's what he's getting in FA. If you don't like it, well you can complain about trading him or let him walk and get a draft pick.

 

You can take about "on pace for 6 fWAR" all you want, but he still only has 8.6 fWAR for his career.

 

Verdugo

540 G

8.6 fWAR

 

Reynolds (1 year older, can play CF)

520 G

13.5 fWAR

Contract 8/106

[Hugh2]

Why would he get a higher AAV than Bryan Reynolds?

 

And here we are again. At the very least this time lets not insult the team by "low balling" verdugo. There's always an example out there of a guy taking less money, and we have yet to see Verdugo 23/24 seasons.

 

Also, Reynolds had more arbitration years bought out than you can go for Verdugo right now. That's always going to lower AAV.

[Bellhorn04]

You can take about "on pace for 6 fWAR" all you want, but he still only has 8.6 fWAR for his career.

 

Verdugo

540 G

8.6 fWAR

 

Reynolds (1 year older, can play CF)

520 G

13.5 fWAR

Contract 8/106

 

Man, Pittsburgh must have a really sharp guy running things these days.

[notin]

You can take about "on pace for 6 fWAR" all you want, but he still only has 8.6 fWAR for his career.

 

Verdugo

540 G

8.6 fWAR

 

Reynolds (1 year older, can play CF)

520 G

13.5 fWAR

Contract 8/106

 

Reynolds’ DRS and UZR numbers suggest Reynolds does play CF, but don’t support that he can. At least not very well.

 

It’s not even certain Verdugo can get to that -19DRS mark, let alone do it in as few innings…

[Hugh2]

You can take about "on pace for 6 fWAR" all you want, but he still only has 8.6 fWAR for his career.

 

Verdugo

540 G

8.6 fWAR

 

Reynolds (1 year older, can play CF)

520 G

13.5 fWAR

Contract 8/106

 

I've been here before, the results are ALWAYS the same. You guys underestimate what guys will get paid. There is always an anecdotal occurrence to back up a different opinion, but most guys don't sign super team-friendly deals.

 

You can't take rational to an irrational market. If Verdugo hits FA coming off of a great season or good and great it only takes ONE gm to think this is who he is in his prime and not the WAR he was putting up his first few years in the league. One, it only takes one. If we want to get serious about keeping guys we need honest conversations. Verdugo is NOT signing for 50 million dollars.