Fire Bloom .

[notin]

The injury risk with Eovaldi is significant, no question.

 

But in the 3 seasons prior to 2022, Kluber only pitched 116 innings. And he's not exactly a youngster. So he was hardly without risk.

 

And Eovaldi had a lot more upside, I don't think anyone can argue about that.

 

 

Do you think willingness to sign a one year deal was a factor? Eovaldi clearly didn’t want one with Boston…

[Bellhorn04]

Cheaper dictated Kluber, and you got what you paid for.

 

I still don't get it, going that cheap on upgrading the rotation, after the lavish outlays for Story, Yoshida and Devers.

[notin]

Cheaper dictated Kluber, and you got what you paid for.

 

Kluber has a higher AAV than Wacha. Safe bet years were a huge factor here…

[Bellhorn04]

Do you think willingness to sign a one year deal was a factor? Eovaldi clearly didn’t want one with Boston…

 

I'm sure it was, but WTF are we doing confining ourselves to one year deals for starting pitchers?

[Old Red]

Kluber has a higher AAV than Wacha. Safe bet years were a huge factor here…

 

I year was the factor.

[Bellhorn04]

They did offer Eflin 3 for 40, but in a cruel irony, he goes to the f'ing Rays for the same money. And of course it was the Rays who let Kluber go. So they beat us twice.

[Old Red]

I still don't get it, going that cheap on upgrading the rotation, after the lavish outlays for Story, Yoshida and Devers.

 

Your right on spending on position players, but Bloom just can’t to get himself out of the bargain basement when dealing with the rotation.

[Bellhorn04]

Your right on spending on position players, but Bloom just can’t to get himself out of the bargain basement when dealing with the rotation.

 

Which might make sense if our top prospects were pitchers, but they sure as hell aren't.

[notin]

I still don't get it, going that cheap on upgrading the rotation, after the lavish outlays for Story, Yoshida and Devers.

 

Maybe that’s the new formula for baseball and business success - don’t dump huge gobs of cash on players who only play 20% of the time even when they’re actually healthy. Don’t forget - it wasn’t that long ago teams started viewing pitching as the key to success at all…

Edited June 4, 2023 by notin

[notin]

I year was the factor.

 

I would imagine so. Wacha originally wanted 2 years $30mill. A lot of teams walked away from that price…

[Maxbialystock]

It’s amazing how much everyone hated the 2022 Red Sox but also clearly thinks letting any of them all go was a huge mistake.

 

“We should have kept Wacha! We should have kept Eovaldi! We should have kept Vazquez! And Bogaerts and JD!!” Heck, I’ve even heard that we should have held on to Matt Strahm!!

 

Did everyone sleep though 2022? Because no one seemed to enjoy these guys when we had them. Or were all the problems with that team because of Austin Davis?

 

Finally. Some sense injected into this discussion.

 

Also missing from the discussion is that, without Bogey, Mookie, and JDM, the hitting is better this season than last season--even with Duvall and Story on the IL.

 

The Sox are no longer paying top dollar (among the top five teams in aggregate salaries)--and are now ranked 15th in aggregate salaries--have better hitting, just as good pitching, and are above .500 with a real shot at the postseason. The 40 man roster is looking pretty good, and AA Portland has a SS who looks to be awfully good.

 

I am not trying to paint a rosy picture here. Heck, I like to gripe too. But I just don't think the length of this thread to fire Bloom is justified.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe that’s the new formula for baseball and business success - don’t dump huge guns of cash on players who only play 20% of the time even when they’re actually healthy. Don’t forget - it wasn’t that long ago teams started viewing pitching as the key to success at all…

 

The $140 million we invested in Story is not exactly paying big dividends. We got 1/2 a season from him and who knows if he'll ever be fully healthy again.

[Old Red]

Zack Britton is available for the BP. He’s a LHP that the Red Sox need, and he’s the type that Bloom likes. Hurt, and cheap.

[Bellhorn04]

Finally. Some sense injected into this discussion.

 

Also missing from the discussion is that, without Bogey, Mookie, and JDM, the hitting is better this season than last season--even with Duvall and Story on the IL.

 

The defense is also vastly worse without Bogey and Mookie.

 

We're now a team that has to score 6 runs to win.

 

Maybe that's what Bloom had in mind.

[Old Red]

The $140 million we invested in Story is not exactly paying big dividends. We got 1/2 a season from him and who knows if he'll ever be fully healthy again.

 

And the Red Sox knew he had trouble throwing his last year in Colorado.

[Bellhorn04]

I would imagine so. Wacha originally wanted 2 years $30mill. A lot of teams walked away from that price…

 

Yes, but San Diego got him for a lot less. They got him for the kind of deal Bloom should have loved.

[Old Red]

Finally. Some sense injected into this discussion.

 

Also missing from the discussion is that, without Bogey, Mookie, and JDM, the hitting is better this season than last season--even with Duvall and Story on the IL.

 

The Sox are no longer paying top dollar (among the top five teams in aggregate salaries)--and are now ranked 15th in aggregate salaries--have better hitting, just as good pitching, and are above .500 with a real shot at the postseason. The 40 man roster is looking pretty good, and AA Portland has a SS who looks to be awfully good.

 

I am not trying to paint a rosy picture here. Heck, I like to gripe too. But I just don't think the length of this thread to fire Bloom is justified.

 

I wouldn’t fire Bloom, because I wouldn’t have hired him in the first place, and I’ve said that since the day he was hired. That would be AWESOME!

[Old Red]

Yes, but San Diego got him for a lot less. They got him for the kind of deal Bloom should have loved.

 

He was out there for the taken for a long time too.

[Bellhorn04]

And the Red Sox knew he had trouble throwing his last year in Colorado.

 

Major red flag. And then after last year they wanted to move him back to shortstop.

 

It's kind of bordering on buffoonery...

[notin]

The $140 million we invested in Story is not exactly paying big dividends. We got 1/2 a season from him and who knows if he'll ever be fully healthy again.

 

And that also has nothing to do with pitching.

 

Tampa is the model owners want - minimal expenses, maximum results. But how often do they sign free agent pitchers to multiyear deals? Baltimore - who is 92-63 in their last 155 games - what was their big off-season pitching splurge? Kyle Gibson!! And his deal? Basically the same one Kluber got.

 

Meanwhile third place Yankees have committed over half a billion dollars to Rodon and Cole and are looking up at multiple Bargain Hunters…

[notin]

Major red flag. And then after last year they wanted to move him back to shortstop.

 

It's kind of bordering on buffoonery...

 

Story with elbow problems still throws as hard as reigning NL Gold Glover Dansby Swanson (source: StatCast). Not to mention, if his elbow clearly prohibited him from playing SS, why didn’t Colorado - you know, an actual MLB franchise entrusted with making these types of decisions - ever change his position?

[Bellhorn04]

Story with elbow problems still throws as hard as reigning NL Gold Glover Dansby Swanson (source: StatCast). Not to mention, if his elbow clearly prohibited him from playing SS, why didn’t Colorado - you know, an actual MLB franchise entrusted with making these types of decisions - ever change his position?

 

His elbow issues with Colorado only started in his last year with them, I think, by which time they probably didn't care much any more...

[Bellhorn04]

Meanwhile third place Yankees have committed over half a billion dollars to Rodon and Cole and are looking up at multiple Bargain Hunters…

 

True, but we're looking up at the Yankees, even with their ridiculous number of injuries.

[dannycater]

Is this sarcasm?

 

Kluber is currently sporting a 6.26 ERA and 1.536 WHIP.

 

Red Sox are in the basement of the AL East again. Same as last year.

 

Is anyone still defending Bloom and thinks he's still the right guy for the job?

 

yes, sarcasm.

[moonslav59]

I'm sure it was, but WTF are we doing confining ourselves to one year deals for starting pitchers?

 

This is the million dollar question.

[notin]

His elbow issues with Colorado only started in his last year with them, I think, by which time they probably didn't care much any more...

 

I did ask your opinion on their thought process, but I don’t think apathy was the case. They do have a manager who cares about his (next?) job, after all…

[notin]

True, but we're looking up at the Yankees, even with their ridiculous number of injuries.

 

The point is there really is no “magic formula” despite what a lot of us think.

 

I mean, you watched baseball in the 1970’s. Pitching wasn’t viewed as the key to success than like it has been recently. Why? We’re teams just run more stupidly? And it took almost 8 decades before someone thought “what about pitching?”

 

MLB is more like the NFL than a lot of people (including me; I’m formulating this as I go) recognize in that it seems like successful trends breed copycats. This was a masked (and possibly inadvertent) theme in “Moneyball.” And right now, the successful trend is to go lighter and cheaper with pitching and focus on short term with lots of turnover. SP is there to eat innings and keep it close. And the game is won and lost in the bullpen…

[moonslav59]

Had Bloom hit on one of his $10M/1 SPer deals, maybe this would not be a major debate issue.

 

It hard for

Me to bash Bloom for not signing any loner term pitching deals because nobody seemed even close to deserving of the deals they ended up getting.

 

I’ve advocated for trading for a younger, more cost controlled SP’er, but farm building has been a higher priority than winning now since DDs last year in BOS. (Many think the going cheap started with Bloom, but it actually started when we let Kimbrell and Kelly go and did not replace them or trade any more prospects after 2028.)

 

Since I love the idea of building the farm and depth up first, I’m torn between keeping the kids or biting the bullet and making a big splash trade like the Sale, Beckett, Schill or Pedro trades.

[Bellhorn04]

The point is there really is no “magic formula” despite what a lot of us think.

 

I mean, you watched baseball in the 1970’s. Pitching wasn’t viewed as the key to success than like it has been recently. Why? We’re teams just run more stupidly? And it took almost 8 decades before someone thought “what about pitching?”

 

Sorry, gotta disagree again. The first baseball team that really captured my attention was the 1965 Dodgers, and it was because of Koufax and Drysdale.

 

In 1966 the Birds won the Series with some incredible pitching by Palmer, McNally et al.

 

1967, Bob Gibson almost single-handedly won the Series against the Sox.

 

1968 was the Year of the Pitcher. And Mickey Lolich was the Series hero.

 

1969, the Mets, Seaver and Koosman.

 

The great Sox teams of the late 70's had Tiant, Eckersley...

 

I could go on and on.

[Old Red]

Sorry, gotta disagree again. The first baseball team that really captured my attention was the 1965 Dodgers, and it was because of Koufax and Drysdale.

 

In 1966 the Birds won the Series with some incredible pitching by Palmer, McNally et al.

 

1967, Bob Gibson almost single-handedly won the Series against the Sox.

 

1968 was the Year of the Pitcher. And Mickey Lolich was the Series hero.

 

1969, the Mets, Seaver and Koosman.

 

The great Sox teams of the late 70's had Tiant, Eckersley...

 

I could go on and on.

 

Well said, and the starting pitchers back in those days were as well known as were the sluggers, and there were some HOF sluggers back in those days. No Red Sox team that ended up winning a championship under Henry faced anything of the likes of Gibson. The A’s run of championships of the early 70’s, which was finally ended by the 75 Red Sox had some pretty good pitching itself with, Catfish, Blue Moon, and Vida.

.