Fire Bloom .

[Hugh2]

We've had dumber.

 

I dunno, this has got to be top 3 of all time.

[mvp 78]

Talk about straws...damn.

 

Straws are bad. Don't use them. Just drink out of a cup.

[mvp 78]

I dunno, this has got to be top 3 of all time.

 

We've had some real dummies post on here in the past.

 

As the Official TalkSox Historian, I can confidently say it's not even top 10.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

When Dombro drafted Song and smiled this winter, he was looking at this forum.

[Hugh2]

We've had some real dummies post on here in the past.

 

As the Official TalkSox Historian, I can confidently say it's not even top 10.

 

Just like prospect rankings all things can vary. This is #1 on my list

[notin]

Probably not. My guess is that the Phillies will have a good idea by Opening Day if he'd even be ready for a mid-April bullpen spot. The extra 15 days would just delay the inevitable.

 

I could see an argument for him needing to be on the 40 man for that 15 day period. I mean, he is a Rule 5 pick after all.

 

I assume we do agree he would have to be added after those days expire, however the rules get interpreted here. Their current roster is full per the Phillies’ own website (which I can’t guarantee is current, but still is the best source). But it also has Harper still on it, and we know he’s definitely out until July/August.

 

I imagine they’d just IL Harper and then add him. Maybe they’re waiting until he pitches a few times to make that call about adding him or just returning him for a full refund…

[Bellhorn04]

Just like prospect rankings all things can vary. This is #1 on my list

 

Personally, I find saying that Song hasn't pitched in 4 years really stupid. So yes, opinions can definitely vary.

[Old Red]

Personally, I find saying that Song hasn't pitched in 4 years really stupid. So yes, opinions can definitely vary.

 

I second the motion.

[mvp 78]

Personally, I find saying that Song hasn't pitched in 4 years really stupid. So yes, opinions can definitely vary.

 

It's definitely 3 years, but the argument was kind of amusing to me.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Personally, I find saying that Song hasn't pitched in 4 years really stupid. So yes, opinions can definitely vary.

 

He's now 25 and has been working out in the military for the past something years.

 

Song could now be in better shape than when he last pitched competitively...

[Bellhorn04]

It's definitely 3 years, but the argument was kind of amusing to me.

 

That's the way I see it too, strictly for amusement.

[Bellhorn04]

He's now 25 and has been working out in the military for the past something years.

 

Song could now be in better shape than when he last pitched competitively...

 

It's an interesting case. Nobody really knows how long it will take him to ramp back up again.

[Old Red]

It's definitely 3 years, but the argument was kind of amusing to me.

 

Something that was as easy as 1-2-3 was kind of funny, and new math was tried to be invented.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's an interesting case. Nobody really knows how long it will take him to ramp back up again.

 

Skinny kids were always in the back pages of comic books, getting sand kicked on them by bullies at the beach. Then they'd enlist and come back as muscle men.

 

The country would even pay them to work out, so they could buy rootbeer floats for their dates.

[mvp 78]

It's an interesting case. Nobody really knows how long it will take him to ramp back up again.

 

It's not even clear how much he was even throwing for the past 3.25 years!

[mvp 78]

He's now 25 and has been working out in the military for the past something years.

 

Song could now be in better shape than when he last pitched competitively...

 

Being in shape and being in pitching shape aren't necessarily the same thing though. Maybe he can do more pushups and be in better conditioning, but that doesn't mean his velo is where it needs to be or that his pitching form hasn't deteriorated.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Being in shape and being in pitching shape aren't necessarily the same thing though. Maybe he can do more pushups and be in better conditioning, but that doesn't mean his velo is where it needs to be or that his pitching form hasn't deteriorated.

 

Of course, but he's young and strong enough to keep his balance riding a bike, for instance.

[mvp 78]

Of course, but he's young and strong enough to keep his balance riding a bike, for instance.

 

But if he was inserted into a Spring Training game today, he'd get outpitched by Ort and it wouldn't be close.

[Hugh2]

Personally, I find saying that Song hasn't pitched in 4 years really stupid. So yes, opinions can definitely vary.

 

My point is the difference between 4 years and 3 1/3 years is non-existent to insignificant at best. That's why this whole conversation is stupid. It doesn't matter. If he lost his stuff after 4 years, he's already lost it after 3.

 

Could it return? yes but not in one season.

[Bellhorn04]

My point is the difference between 4 years and 3 1/3 years is non-existent to insignificant at best. That's why this whole conversation is stupid. It doesn't matter. If he lost his stuff after 4 years, he's already lost it after 3.

 

Could it return? yes but not in one season.

 

Why not though? Is this a scientific fact? Haven't some pitchers missed 1.5 seasons or more with TJS like Whitlock and come back strong?

 

Where is the tipping point?

[Old Red]

Why not though? Is this a scientific fact? Haven't some pitchers missed 1.5 seasons or more with TJS like Whitlock and come back strong?

 

Where is the tipping point?

 

Not only the tipping point, but a case by case difference. Not everyone comes back from TJ the same either.

[mvp 78]

This is what was reported after his first bullpen on Tuesday:

 

“It’s a work in progress, for sure,” Song said of the session watched by Phillies president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski and manager Rob Thomson. “It’s far from perfect, and I’m just hoping for an upward trajectory. Just trying to continue to get some improvement everyday.”

 

“I feel like I’m trying to be a baseball player again, I guess,” Song said. “It’s hard when you’re around the competition level these guys are. I’m just trying to keep my head above water right now.”

 

“He looked like he’s got a feel for all his pitches, but he’s still building up,” Thomson said. “So really, there’s no evaluation other than he’s healthy. Not commanding his pitches but just a feel for them, being able to throw strikes and spin the ball. He looks like he can do that.”

 

“I think that it’s definitely just way too early to tell,” Song said. “There’s so much that needs to get done for me right that it’s not something I could really project.”

 

If you see the video that was posted, he's not throwing 99 for sure.

[Hugh2]

Why not though? Is this a scientific fact? Haven't some pitchers missed 1.5 seasons or more with TJS like Whitlock and come back strong?

 

Where is the tipping point?

 

First of all, 1.5 is still 1/2 the time frame as 3 years. And seeing how some are being so specific here it's actually more like 3.33 years.

 

Also, when you miss 1.5 years from Tommy John, you're not not throwing during that time. And you're in a professional system, with the care, attentiveness of pro mlb trainers and doctors etc. You are on throwing programs with pitching coaches, and at some point facing live batters. It's a completely different experience from being away from a sport for that time frame. Then more than DOUBLE that time frame.

 

A case-by-case basis it may be. But has anyone ever taken 3 years off from the sport and made the jump from A ball to the majors. Ever? even just once?

[Bellhorn04]

First of all, 1.5 is still 1/2 the time frame as 3 years. And seeing how some are being so specific here it's actually more like 3.33 years.

 

Also, when you miss 1.5 years from Tommy John, you're not not throwing during that time. And you're in a professional system, with the care, attentiveness of pro mlb trainers and doctors etc. You are on throwing programs with pitching coaches, and at some point facing live batters. It's a completely different experience from being away from a sport for that time frame. Then more than DOUBLE that time frame.

 

A case-by-case basis it may be. But has anyone ever taken 3 years off from the sport and made the jump from A ball to the majors. Ever? even just once?

 

No, I think that's the whole point. It's a unique situation, so everyone's just guessing.

[Bellhorn04]

This is what was reported after his first bullpen on Tuesday:

 

“It’s a work in progress, for sure,” Song said of the session watched by Phillies president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski and manager Rob Thomson. “It’s far from perfect, and I’m just hoping for an upward trajectory. Just trying to continue to get some improvement everyday.”

 

“I feel like I’m trying to be a baseball player again, I guess,” Song said. “It’s hard when you’re around the competition level these guys are. I’m just trying to keep my head above water right now.”

 

“He looked like he’s got a feel for all his pitches, but he’s still building up,” Thomson said. “So really, there’s no evaluation other than he’s healthy. Not commanding his pitches but just a feel for them, being able to throw strikes and spin the ball. He looks like he can do that.”

 

“I think that it’s definitely just way too early to tell,” Song said. “There’s so much that needs to get done for me right that it’s not something I could really project.”

 

If you see the video that was posted, he's not throwing 99 for sure.

 

He'd be nuts to try to throw 99 right away, of course.

[moonslav59]

My point is the difference between 4 years and 3 1/3 years is non-existent to insignificant at best. That's why this whole conversation is stupid. It doesn't matter. If he lost his stuff after 4 years, he's already lost it after 3.

 

Could it return? yes but not in one season.

 

It's not even 3 1/3 until he pitches next, in a real game.

[mvp 78]

He'd be nuts to try to throw 99 right away, of course.

 

What should he be trying to do? Who really knows?

[mvp 78]

First of all, 1.5 is still 1/2 the time frame as 3 years. And seeing how some are being so specific here it's actually more like 3.33 years.

 

Also, when you miss 1.5 years from Tommy John, you're not not throwing during that time. And you're in a professional system, with the care, attentiveness of pro mlb trainers and doctors etc. You are on throwing programs with pitching coaches, and at some point facing live batters. It's a completely different experience from being away from a sport for that time frame. Then more than DOUBLE that time frame.

 

A case-by-case basis it may be. But has anyone ever taken 3 years off from the sport and made the jump from A ball to the majors. Ever? even just once?

 

Well, he didn't report to flight school until June 2020. Maybe he was still throwing off a mound up until that point. Should we discount that as well?

 

2.75 years

[moonslav59]

What should he be trying to do? Who really knows?

 

Slowly working towards building up strength, command and routines.

 

It might be 2-3 months before evaluations on his levels of readiness are even significant.

 

Sure, he might surprise everyone by improving quickly, but I think that's a long shot.

 

Somebody mentioned coming back fro TJ surgery. Part of the rehab time comes after the arm feels fine. It takes time to gain what was lost through inactivity (atrophy.) We don't know how often Song worked out is throwing arm since 2019, either.

[mvp 78]

Slowly working towards building up strength, command and routines.

 

It might be 2-3 months before evaluations on his levels of readiness are even significant.

 

Sure, he might surprise everyone by improving quickly, but I think that's a long shot.

 

Somebody mentioned coming back fro TJ surgery. Part of the rehab time comes after the arm feels fine. It takes time to gain what was lost through inactivity (atrophy.) We don't know how often Song worked out is throwing arm since 2019, either.

 

He would play catch sporadically. It wasn't part of a strict routine.