Fire Bloom .

[Old Red]

*sigh* why do I even try.

 

The thing I hate about this conversation is it forces me to be negative about Song, I hope the kid becomes an MLB starting pitcher. But this notion that he should have been protected when his picking was pretty unprecedented is just absurd. Also, linking him with Ort is just stupid....If there is an argument to be made here it is keeping Ort over WARD. At this point, a guy like WARD has a higher chance of having a good productive MLB career. He was literally the VERY FIRST guy picked in the MLB rule 5 draft.

 

Losing WARD, and protecting Ort/Braiser seems really dumb at this point. I don't think you could ever say that about Song, even if he becomes good. It's just a weird, unprecedented, unlikely situation. If I had a genie lamp, I'd literally use one of my three wishes to end this conversation forever.

My opinion is that he shouldn’t have been protected at the time of the draft. He got released to play, but I don’t believe the Phillies would have drafted him if they had known that at the time. My biggest interest with Song is that he is a ex Navy guy, so that’s what got my interest more than anything else, and I hope he eventually makes it with someone.

[Hugh2]

My opinion is that he shouldn’t have been protected at the time of the draft. He got released to play, but I don’t believe the Phillies would have drafted him if they had known that at the time. My biggest interest with Song is that he is a ex Navy guy, so that’s what got my interest more than anything else, and I hope he eventually makes it with someone.

 

That's fair

[Bellhorn04]

My opinion is that he shouldn’t have been protected at the time of the draft. He got released to play, but I don’t believe the Phillies would have drafted him if they had known that at the time. My biggest interest with Song is that he is a ex Navy guy, so that’s what got my interest more than anything else, and I hope he eventually makes it with someone.

 

What strikes me as funny about the idea that the Phillies were caught off guard by him being released is this: if he wasn't released this year, we'd be talking about a 4 year hiatus or longer rather than the 3 year hiatus many say is too long anyway.

[moonslav59]

Let's say Story and Mondesi were ready to play and we needed to clear 2- 40 man slots.

 

We all agree on Ort, although it's doubtful, he'd be the odd man out, but let's say we had Ward, instead of Ort.

 

The choices would be to DFA Chang and....

 

Ward or Murphy?

 

Is this really the big deal we have made it into?

[Hugh2]

What strikes me as funny about the idea that the Phillies were caught off guard by him being released is this: if he wasn't released this year, we'd be talking about a 4 year hiatus or longer rather than the 3 year hiatus many say is too long anyway.

 

WHy wouldn't they have been caught off guard? are you suggesting the Philly had the inside scoop to the United States military and new he was going to be allowed to play baseball this year?

[Old Red]

What strikes me as funny about the idea that the Phillies were caught off guard by him being released is this: if he wasn't released this year, we'd be talking about a 4 year hiatus or longer rather than the 3 year hiatus many say is too long anyway.

 

DD thought he was worth it.

[Hugh2]

DD thought he was worth it.

 

25 other teams did not.

 

Usually, you draft a guy you think is going to stick on your rosters.

[Old Red]

Let's say Story and Mondesi were ready to play and we needed to clear 2- 40 man slots.

 

We all agree on Ort, although it's doubtful, he'd be the odd man out, but let's say we had Ward, instead of Ort.

 

The choices would be to DFA Chang and....

 

Ward or Murphy?

 

Is this really the big deal we have made it into?

 

I don’t do much 40 man talk, because it’s not like all on the 40 man are prized suspects. Hell not even on the backend of the 26 man are prizes you can cling to.

[Old Red]

25 other teams did not.

 

Usually, you draft a guy you think is going to stick on your rosters.

 

The only thing I got is DD was the one who drafted him in the first place.

[Hugh2]

The only thing I got is DD was the one who drafted him in the first place.

 

I'd say Mike RiKard is the one who drafted him, with some input from Reed Gragnani. DD probably didn't know much about him until after he was drafted. Obviously, he fell in love.

[Old Red]

I'd say Mike RiKard is the one who drafted him, with some input from Reed Gragnani. DD probably didn't know much about him until after he was drafted. Obviously, he fell in love.

Maybe he likes Navy guys.

[Hugh2]

Maybe he likes Navy guys.

 

I get you’re a navy guy, I was in the army myself so nothing but respect to all my fellow us service members but if really cared about song, he wouldn’t have messed with his development.

[Old Red]

I get you’re a navy guy, I was in the army myself so nothing but respect to all my fellow us service members but if really cared about song, he wouldn’t have messed with his development.

 

I don’t think, or at least I hope not it was intended, but he was stuck when Song was cleared to play.

[Hugh2]

I don’t think, or at least I hope not it was intended, but he was stuck when Song was cleared to play.

 

Agreed, when they selected Song I believe they thought they could stash him on the military list all year

[Bellhorn04]

WHy wouldn't they have been caught off guard? are you suggesting the Philly had the inside scoop to the United States military and new he was going to be allowed to play baseball this year?

 

No, that's not the point I was trying to make.

[Elktonnick]

No, that's not the point I was trying to make.

 

I do not think it would be extraordinary for the Phillies or any other professional sports team to get a readout from DOD on its intentions regarding whether a particular player would be allowed to leave active service to resume their professional career. I base this on my time as a congressional liaison at State and my two years service in OSD in the Pentagon albeit 30 years ago.

[notin]

We don't know he can't be good, either. He's still young and healthy and he obviously has the genetic makeup to be able to throw a baseball. As I keep saying, it's a case we've never seen before.

 

I’m wondering if we’re looking at the pitchers all wrong and getting too caught up in old scouting reports defended by “you think he forgot how to pitch?” The real question is - did he ever know? Since 2020:

 

Ward (age 26) has 81 IP (33 IP above A ball)

Song (age 27) has 0 IP

Groome (age 25) has 241 IP (160 IP above A ball)

Ort (age 31) has 114 IP, all of it in AAA and MLB.

 

I’ve shown no love for Ort for a while now, but even as a reliever he has managed to log more IP at tougher levels than the players lost to Rule 5. And Groome looks more likely to be “the one that got away” than either Ward or Song…

[Old Red]

I’m wondering if we’re looking at the pitchers all wrong and getting too caught up in old scouting reports defended by “you think he forgot how to pitch?” The real question is - did he ever know? Since 2020:

 

Ward (age 26) has 81 IP (33 IP above A ball)

Song (age 27) has 0 IP

Groome (age 25) has 241 IP (160 IP above A ball)

Ort (age 31) has 114 IP, all of it in AAA and MLB.

 

I’ve shown no love for Ort for a while now, but even as a reliever he has managed to log more IP at tougher levels than the players lost to Rule 5. And Groome looks more likely to be “the one that got away” than either Ward or Song…

Song is 25, and will be 26 in May.

[moonslav59]

Song is 25, and will be 26 in May.

 

The Navy ages players 1-2 years more.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I’m wondering if we’re looking at the pitchers all wrong and getting too caught up in old scouting reports defended by “you think he forgot how to pitch?” The real question is - did he ever know? Since 2020:

 

Ward (age 26) has 81 IP (33 IP above A ball)

Song (age 27) has 0 IP

Groome (age 25) has 241 IP (160 IP above A ball)

Ort (age 31) has 114 IP, all of it in AAA and MLB.

 

I’ve shown no love for Ort for a while now, but even as a reliever he has managed to log more IP at tougher levels than the players lost to Rule 5. And Groome looks more likely to be “the one that got away” than either Ward or Song…

 

Maybe the difference in attitude toward losing Groome is that he seemed like a minor league version of the past three years of Sale...

[notin]

Song is 25, and will be 26 in May.

 

And as he turns 26 before July 1, this is his age 26 season. Exactly as I said…

[moonslav59]

And as he turns 26 before July 1, this is his age 26 season. Exactly as I said…

 

Didn't you write "age 27?"

[Hugh2]

I do not think it would be extraordinary for the Phillies or any other professional sports team to get a readout from DOD on its intentions regarding whether a particular player would be allowed to leave active service to resume their professional career. I base this on my time as a congressional liaison at State and my two years service in OSD in the Pentagon albeit 30 years ago.

 

Three things.

 

Your reasoning is purely anecdotal, and conjecture doesn't make you wrong.

If they had an inside scoop, why didn't everyone else? I think we would of heard something.

It didn't help the Phillies, their hope was to stash him on the military reserve list for the year. Now they were forced to have a kid skip up 4 levels of pro ball after not playing for over 3 years. No one wants to do that.

 

When you consider that, it's very unlikely the Phillies had the inside scoop.

[Hugh2]

There's a huge difference between being 26 and doing something every day of your life, and being 26 and not doing it in 3 years. I speak as someone who has been a professional athlete and trained pro athletes for a large chunk of their life.

 

He didn't just miss time, he missed developmental time. The time that he won't get back now because now he has to pitch in the bigs. This is bad because it really screws with the kid's development. No matter how well in shape he stayed in the military, it was not functional towards baseball, and he wasn't under the supervision of MLB pitching coaches facing live batters.

 

He has talent, yes, talent is only half the equation. Franchy Cordero had all the talent in the world and he laid eggs without missing any time. You need development, and you NEVER truly know how a human being is going to develop. Do people really sincerely think we should have protected Noah Song? It really just boggles my mind.

[Bellhorn04]

He has talent, yes, talent is only half the equation. Franchy Cordero had all the talent in the world and he laid eggs without missing any time. You need development, and you NEVER truly know how a human being is going to develop. Do people really sincerely think we should have protected Noah Song? It really just boggles my mind.

 

I think the Red Sox, and Song, got a raw deal from the rules. There should have been a special exemption for him.

 

It does look like Bloom was absolutely right not to protect him.

[Hugh2]

I think the Red Sox, and Song, got a raw deal from the rules. There should have been a special exemption for him.

 

It does look like Bloom was absolutely right not to protect him.

 

One thing is for certain, and that's this is a unique situation. I think you almost have to throw him being a starter out the window now, Philly will have to carry them on their 40 man, and if they want to compete that's a huge hole on your roster for a guy who can't help your team out right now. If he has a MLB future, hes' going to be helpful much much quicker coming out of the bullpen.

 

Maybe he will become a good relief pitcher, with aspirations to start and come back to the Sox in free agency and become the reverse Rich Hill.

[Bellhorn04]

One thing is for certain, and that's this is a unique situation. I think you almost have to throw him being a starter out the window now, Philly will have to carry them on their 40 man, and if they want to compete that's a huge hole on your roster for a guy who can't help your team out right now. If he has a MLB future, hes' going to be helpful much much quicker coming out of the bullpen.

 

Maybe he will become a good relief pitcher, with aspirations to start and come back to the Sox in free agency and become the reverse Rich Hill.

 

Doesn't Philly have to carry him on their 26 man this year?

[Old Red]

Doesn't Philly have to carry him on their 26 man this year?

 

I believe they have to keep him on the 26 for at least 90 days even if on the IL, or something like that.

[notin]

I believe they have to keep him on the 26 for at least 90 days even if on the IL, or something like that.

 

They have to carry him for 90 days on the active roster. They can also not demote him all year…

[notin]

Didn't you write "age 27?"

 

 

Oops. Typed it.

 

It’s his age 26 season. Not even going back to fix it..,