Fire Bloom .

[Old Red]

What GM, given the parameters Bloom was given from day one could have brought this team to glory by year 3?

 

I don't even think any other GM would have been allowed to trade away much of the farm, even if they wanted to.

 

As bad as things some claim they are, and as good as Bloom some claim he is he should be able to fix things, and not in a 5 yr rebuild. I don’t think things are as bad as some claim, but could get worse if Bogey, and Raffy aren’t resigned, and I don’t believe Bloom is as good as people claim he is. I do hope I’m wrong on this, but only time will tell, and sooner the better. No one gets an unlimited amount of time in Boston.

[moonslav59]

As bad as things some claim they are, and as good as Bloom some claim he is he should be able to fix things, and not in a 5 yr rebuild. I don’t think things are as bad as some claim, but could get worse if Bogey, and Raffy aren’t resigned, and I don’t believe Bloom is as good as people claim he is. I do hope I’m wrong on this, but only time will tell, and sooner the better. No one gets an unlimited amount of time in Boston.

 

The "as bad as some claim" group are mostly the Bloom bashers.

[mvp 78]

As bad as things some claim they are, and as good as Bloom some claim he is he should be able to fix things, and not in a 5 yr rebuild. I don’t think things are as bad as some claim, but could get worse if Bogey, and Raffy aren’t resigned, and I don’t believe Bloom is as good as people claim he is. I do hope I’m wrong on this, but only time will tell, and sooner the better. No one gets an unlimited amount of time in Boston.

 

We did do a poll and 85% voted either "just ok" or "terrible" for Bloom. It's only a very select few who are ride or die. I'm not sure even the 15% would say that Bloom should get unlimited time.

[moonslav59]

As bad as things some claim they are, and as good as Bloom some claim he is he should be able to fix things, and not in a 5 yr rebuild. I don’t think things are as bad as some claim, but could get worse if Bogey, and Raffy aren’t resigned, and I don’t believe Bloom is as good as people claim he is. I do hope I’m wrong on this, but only time will tell, and sooner the better. No one gets an unlimited amount of time in Boston.

 

Year one: we are forced to trade Betts and include Price in the deal and end up paying half his contract for 3 years. We don't even spend enough to replace their salaries. We have 15-20 weak to very weak spots on the 40 and a bottom 5 farm.

 

Year two: we spend $40M to upgrade some of those 15-20 weak slots and make some traded to improve the farm, at the expense of the big club roster.

 

Year three: we look like we are spending only $40M again but have less than 15-20 slots to fill, then we make a semi-major splash signing of Story late in March.

 

The farm has slowly improved, but Houck, Dalbec and Duran were the main prospects we added since the mid 2017 Devers call-up. The budget barely gave enough to fill some important roles with with %5-10M, mostly 1 year deals and a bunch of waiver wire pick-ups and under the radar additions like Schreiber, refsnyder and Whitlock.

 

Does this look like the making of a 2 or 3 year rebuild? If you think yes, please explain how that is possible.

 

Either you don't think the roster of 2020 was as bad as it looked, or you think the farm can be built up and the players developed to ML worthiness in 3 or less years, or you think $40M AAV in winter spending should have been enough to fill 15-20 slots on the 40.

 

IMO, I think it's pretty incredible that year 4 is showing to be a major year for farm infusion. Whether they pan out or not, is yet to be known, but in terms of sheer numbers, the impact may be stunning. Much of this has to do with prospects here before Bloom, but it should be noted, he did not trade almost all of our best prospects in the 3 years the big club was suffering. (I'm pretty sure he did not want to, but there is a good chance he was also told not to.)

 

I know it pains many fans to think we might still have a year or two to go, and when we look at over $200M in player salaries, excuse-making gets tiring and unimportant to many.

 

Could Bloom have done better with the few signings he made? Of course, although this past winter's signings were some of our brightest areas. However, the JBJ trade darkened everyone's opinions- and rightfully so.

 

I don't think anyone can deny that a rebuild was taking place. We are at the point where many feel it is or most definitely should be complete, but it doesn't always work out as we wish, and it's basically up to JH to decide, if 2023 is the beginning of the post-rebuild era. I know many don't want to think beyond what's in front of their noses, but do we really want to go all-in or nearly all-in just to reset in 2024? Maybe JH will, for the first time, pay taxes and be penalized for 3rd year overages, but I am acting on the assumption, he will not.

 

Will going all in in 2023, mean good bye to Devers as we reset in '24?

 

Will going all in mean a bunch of one year deals, so we can keep Devers in '24, but see us not replacing many of the holes left by departing one year signees?

 

Will the farm help be enough to fill most of those slots and allow us to be highly competitive in '24, as we reset, or will we have traded some of those prospects to win in '23- only to suffer in '24 ands beyond as a result of going for it now?

 

Only JH and the ownership group knows for sure. Bloom probably has an idea, already, but I'm not so sure on that. I think the Story signing was a late change of plans, but that is just a hunch, I have.

 

[Old Red]

The "as bad as some claim" group are mostly the Bloom bashers.

 

You read into this wrong. The some who claim things are worse than they are the ones who think Bloom was left such as mess from DD, and the so called given parameters that Bloom has to deal with, and not the Blooms critics. I know you have to get the Bloom Bashers in there. They will not only be around as long as Bloom gives the fans something to criticize about, and will most likely grow in numbers. Attendance was the lowest this year in JH’s regime, and he sees, and feels that more than anything. Ticket prices are going up next year, and Bloom is in the hot seat to produce a product that is not only worth paying the high prices to see, and adding the increase in as well.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Old Red

[Maxbialystock]

As bad as things some claim they are, and as good as Bloom some claim he is he should be able to fix things, and not in a 5 yr rebuild. I don’t think things are as bad as some claim, but could get worse if Bogey, and Raffy aren’t resigned, and I don’t believe Bloom is as good as people claim he is. I do hope I’m wrong on this, but only time will tell, and sooner the better. No one gets an unlimited amount of time in Boston.

 

I like and defend Bloom, but understand the skepticism. This is his first time in charge, plus he "grew up" in a very different system.

 

You seem impatient. My view is that Chaim Bloom had owned three seasons, but the first was dominated by covid--and the absence of Mookie Betts and the nonperformance of Sale and Price--the second turned out to be pretty darn good, and the third has been dominated by injuries while still shelling out $63M for DD acquisitions Price, Sale, and Eovaldi.

 

I do however share your prejudice for keeping Bogey and Raffy--even though I think they and/or their agents expect more than they are worth. I also have a prejudice against big bucks for starters.

[notin]

I like and defend Bloom, but understand the skepticism. This is his first time in charge, plus he "grew up" in a very different system.

 

You seem impatient. My view is that Chaim Bloom had owned three seasons, but the first was dominated by covid--and the absence of Mookie Betts and the nonperformance of Sale and Price--the second turned out to be pretty darn good, and the third has been dominated by injuries while still shelling out $63M for DD acquisitions Price, Sale, and Eovaldi.

 

I do however share your prejudice for keeping Bogey and Raffy--even though I think they and/or their agents expect more than they are worth. I also have a prejudice against big bucks for starters.

 

Per MLBTR, Bogaerts is the Sox top priority…

[Old Red]

Year one: we are forced to trade Betts and include Price in the deal and end up paying half his contract for 3 years. We don't even spend enough to replace their salaries. We have 15-20 weak to very weak spots on the 40 and a bottom 5 farm.

 

Year two: we spend $40M to upgrade some of those 15-20 weak slots and make some traded to improve the farm, at the expense of the big club roster.

 

Year three: we look like we are spending only $40M again but have less than 15-20 slots to fill, then we make a semi-major splash signing of Story late in March.

 

The farm has slowly improved, but Houck, Dalbec and Duran were the main prospects we added since the mid 2017 Devers call-up. The budget barely gave enough to fill some important roles with with %5-10M, mostly 1 year deals and a bunch of waiver wire pick-ups and under the radar additions like Schreiber, refsnyder and Whitlock.

 

Does this look like the making of a 2 or 3 year rebuild? If you think yes, please explain how that is possible.

 

Either you don't think the roster of 2020 was as bad as it looked, or you think the farm can be built up and the players developed to ML worthiness in 3 or less years, or you think $40M AAV in winter spending should have been enough to fill 15-20 slots on the 40.

 

IMO, I think it's pretty incredible that year 4 is showing to be a major year for farm infusion. Whether they pan out or not, is yet to be known, but in terms of sheer numbers, the impact may be stunning. Much of this has to do with prospects here before Bloom, but it should be noted, he did not trade almost all of our best prospects in the 3 years the big club was suffering. (I'm pretty sure he did not want to, but there is a good chance he was also told not to.)

 

I know it pains many fans to think we might still have a year or two to go, and when we look at over $200M in player salaries, excuse-making gets tiring and unimportant to many.

 

Could Bloom have done better with the few signings he made? Of course, although this past winter's signings were some of our brightest areas. However, the JBJ trade darkened everyone's opinions- and rightfully so.

 

I don't think anyone can deny that a rebuild was taking place. We are at the point where many feel it is or most definitely should be complete, but it doesn't always work out as we wish, and it's basically up to JH to decide, if 2023 is the beginning of the post-rebuild era. I know many don't want to think beyond what's in front of their noses, but do we really want to go all-in or nearly all-in just to reset in 2024? Maybe JH will, for the first time, pay taxes and be penalized for 3rd year overages, but I am acting on the assumption, he will not.

 

Will going all in in 2023, mean good bye to Devers as we reset in '24?

 

Will going all in mean a bunch of one year deals, so we can keep Devers in '24, but see us not replacing many of the holes left by departing one year signees?

 

Will the farm help be enough to fill most of those slots and allow us to be highly competitive in '24, as we reset, or will we have traded some of those prospects to win in '23- only to suffer in '24 ands beyond as a result of going for it now?

 

Only JH and the ownership group knows for sure. Bloom probably has an idea, already, but I'm not so sure on that. I think the Story signing was a late change of plans, but that is just a hunch, I have.

 

 

All this rebuild, re-set, and going all in talk is Moon speak, and that’s your opinion, which is fine, but I don’t hear any of that from the people that count like JH, Kennedy, Bloom, or Cora. Did you watch the year end PC yesterday? Kennedy said it was their fault, and they failed this past season, and they expect to be competitive every year, and I don’t think it’s in anybodies count to skip years in hopes of getting better later on that may never happen.

[Maxbialystock]

You read into this wrong. The some who claim things are worse than they are the ones who think Bloom was left such as mess from DD, and the so called given parameters that Bloom has to deal with, and not the Blooms critics. I know you have to get the Bloom Bashers in there. They will not only be around as long as Bloom gives the fans something to criticize about, and will most likely grow in numbers. Attendance was the lowest this year in JH’s regime, and he sees, and feels that more than anything. Ticket prices are going up next year, and Bloom is in the hot seat to produce a product that is not only worth paying the high prices to see, and adding the increase in as well.

 

Agree on your attendance comment. John Henry has never hesitated to fire a manager or GM.

 

That said, DD did leave a mess, which we saw in 2020 and still saw this year--which was exacerbated by injuries to Sale, Eovaldi, Wacha, Hill, Whitlock, Houck, Story, Kike, etc.

 

In between 2020 and 2022 was a pretty good season, 2021--which was helped by CB acquisitions Verdugo, Renfroe, Kike, Whitlock, and Pivetta. Whitlock and Pivetta had the 2d and 3d best WAR's on the 2021 Sox pitching staff. Kike had the 2d best WAR in the lineup, Renfroe's was 5th best, and Dugo's was 6th best. Oh, and Schwarber's (just 41 games) was 8th best.

 

So, while I can appreciate the skepticism about Bloom, I also think it is dishonest to gloss over the 2021 season.

[moonslav59]

You read into this wrong. The some who claim things are worse than they are the ones who think Bloom was left such as mess from DD, and the so called given parameters that Bloom has to deal with, and not the Blooms critics.

 

I disagree. I think we have done better than we should have, under Bloom. Things are better than they seem, and the outlook is better than the bashers think they are.

[moonslav59]

I know you have to get the Bloom Bashers in there. They will not only be around as long as Bloom gives the fans something to criticize about, and will most likely grow in numbers. Attendance was the lowest this year in JH’s regime, and he sees, and feels that more than anything. Ticket prices are going up next year, and Bloom is in the hot seat to produce a product that is not only worth paying the high prices to see, and adding the increase in as well.

 

I get the feeling you think I am not understanding why low fan attendance and viewership is important, or that I lessen its importance when the team makes decisions on what to do, next.

 

I think the Story signing was an example of how management hears the fans and plans with them in mind, while also trying to balance the longer term outlook, which they know most fans don't think about or care about, except in the abstract.

 

I know full well, the product on the field has to match the high ticket prices and cost of a NESN subscription, or profits will suffer. I feel like you think "if I only understood" all this, my opinion might change. I may be wrong about this, and in some ways, maybe I do the same with those who disagree with my positions by thinking I just "need to help them understand." I'm no better than anyone here, and maybe I'm reading your messages incorrectly.

 

I know I am in a minority by wanting us to build a sustainable winning system, even if it comes at a heavy cost for a 3-5 year window. I did not expect it to take 4-5 years. I always felt that if we ever resume paying near the tax line and going over for 1-2 years, here and there, we could get back to serious competition in 3 or less years. I expected the farm to take longer than 3 years to get to the point it is now, and that is extremely gratifying to me. I get that teh average fan could care less about this fact, but to me, it is a sign that we are getting closer to a sustainable, winning plan. (The prospects thread: https://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/20299-2022-Prospects lists 15-16 players that are expected to see MLB time in 2023.)

 

I'm not for hoarding prospects. I think there are times- maybe every 3-6 years, where a strategic prospect trade is needed to obtain a key piece that puts us over the top- like the Pedro, Schill, Beckett and Sale trades. I'm not so sure this winter is that time, but I do think that time is near and the farm is deep and strong enough to withstand one such deal, but not 3-4 deals like those in a short window.

[Old Red]

Agree on your attendance comment. John Henry has never hesitated to fire a manager or GM.

 

That said, DD did leave a mess, which we saw in 2020 and still saw this year--which was exacerbated by injuries to Sale, Eovaldi, Wacha, Hill, Whitlock, Houck, Story, Kike, etc.

 

In between 2020 and 2022 was a pretty good season, 2021--which was helped by CB acquisitions Verdugo, Renfroe, Kike, Whitlock, and Pivetta. Whitlock and Pivetta had the 2d and 3d best WAR's on the 2021 Sox pitching staff. Kike had the 2d best WAR in the lineup, Renfroe's was 5th best, and Dugo's was 6th best. Oh, and Schwarber's (just 41 games) was 8th best.

 

So, while I can appreciate the skepticism about Bloom, I also think it is dishonest to gloss over the 2021 season.

2020 was as bad as it gets record wise, but to say 2020 was a mess roster wise just isn’t true. Bogey, Raffy, JD, Vaz, and Dugy are not chopped liver, and a pretty good start to a lineup, and that’s why I have said that 2021 was not a big surprise to me.

[moonslav59]

Agree on your attendance comment. John Henry has never hesitated to fire a manager or GM.

 

That said, DD did leave a mess, which we saw in 2020 and still saw this year--which was exacerbated by injuries to Sale, Eovaldi, Wacha, Hill, Whitlock, Houck, Story, Kike, etc.

 

In between 2020 and 2022 was a pretty good season, 2021--which was helped by CB acquisitions Verdugo, Renfroe, Kike, Whitlock, and Pivetta. Whitlock and Pivetta had the 2d and 3d best WAR's on the 2021 Sox pitching staff. Kike had the 2d best WAR in the lineup, Renfroe's was 5th best, and Dugo's was 6th best. Oh, and Schwarber's (just 41 games) was 8th best.

 

So, while I can appreciate the skepticism about Bloom, I also think it is dishonest to gloss over the 2021 season.

 

Look at the 2020 season, as well (all players with 0.7 or higher bWAR):

 

bWAR

5.7 Bogey

4.4 Devers

3.3 Wacha

2.7 Schreiber

2.6 Pivetta

2.5 Story

2.2 Vaz

1.8 Whitlock

1.6 Houck

1.5 Nate

1.2 Ref

1.2 Dugo

1.1 JD

0.9 Hill

0.9 McGuire

0.8 Kike

0.7 Arroyo

0.7 Sawamura

 

fWAR has the top 5 Sox pitchers as all Bloom additions:

1.8 Hill

1.7 Schreiber

1.5 Wacha

1.5 Pivetta

1.4 Whitlock

1.3 Bello

 

[notin]

2020 was as bad as it gets record wise, but to say 2020 was a mess roster wise just isn’t true. Bogey, Raffy, JD, Vaz, and Dugy are not chopped liver, and a pretty good start to a lineup, and that’s why I have said that 2021 was not a big surprise to me.

 

All of them were there in 2022. The problem was in 2022, Eovaldi couldn’t repeat his Cy Young caliber season, Barnes couldn’t return to his All Star form, there was no starter depth at the beginning of the season, and the bullpen overall collapsed with the exception of Schreiber. Houck and Whitlock are fine in the bullpen, but both were starters at some point and just not as good. Plus no one was able to backfill them in the bullpen.

 

And everyone got hurt…

[dgalehouse]

All this rebuild, re-set, and going all in talk is Moon speak, and that’s your opinion, which is fine, but I don’t hear any of that from the people that count like JH, Kennedy, Bloom, or Cora. Did you watch the year end PC yesterday? Kennedy said it was their fault, and they failed this past season, and they expect to be competitive every year, and I don’t think it’s in anybodies count to skip years in hopes of getting better later on that may never happen.

 

John Henry was conspicuous by his absence at that session.

[mvp 78]

All of them were there in 2022. The problem was in 2022, Eovaldi couldn’t repeat his Cy Young caliber season, Barnes couldn’t return to his All Star form, there was no starter depth at the beginning of the season, and the bullpen overall collapsed with the exception of Schreiber. Houck and Whitlock are fine in the bullpen, but both were starters at some point and just not as good. Plus no one was able to backfill them in the bullpen.

 

And everyone got hurt…

The big changes from 2021 to 2022 were the bullpen got way worse, the starters got injured, Raffy was injured and struggled after coming back, Kiké was injured, 1b was a black hole for the whole year, JBJ never hit and JD had his worst full season OPS since 2013. I think if we were told that scenario going into 2022, we would have expected .500 at best. It was bleak.

[dgalehouse]

All of the Luxury Tax teams are in the playoffs except the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

2020 was as bad as it gets record wise, but to say 2020 was a mess roster wise just isn’t true. Bogey, Raffy, JD, Vaz, and Dugy are not chopped liver, and a pretty good start to a lineup, and that’s why I have said that 2021 was not a big surprise to me.

 

That roster was horrible. 26 man or 40 man. It was horrific beyond 4-5 good players and 5-10 decent role players.

 

[mvp 78]

That roster was horrible. 26 man or 40 man. It was horrific beyond 4-5 good players and 5-10 decent role players.

 

 

The Opening Day roster doesn't look horrible on paper.

 

C Vazquez

1B Moreland

2B Peraza

SS Bogey

3B Devers

RF Verdugo

CF Pillar

LF Benitendi

 

Where it really went awry was the pitching (29th starter fWAR, 26th pen fWAR):

 

Sale - out for the year TJS and not replaced

ERod - out for the year COVID and not replaced

Eovaldi - pitched fine

Perez - pitched fine

5th Starter - Weber or bullpen game

 

3 out of 5 games were set up to be a s*** show on 8/1/20. There wasn't a good fallback plan. The upper minors depth was weak and the only guy that had a decent ceiling was Houck, but he wasn't added until the end of the year. Mazza/Brewer/Weber/Godley/Triggs/Kickham were what they were, spot starters that were forced into regular roles that encompassed 60% of every game played. It was an embarrassment. Even when Houck showed up, it really only made up for 3 starts that Eovaldi lost to injury.

 

When that's the rotation, it's going to be very hard on the bullpen, which included retreads like Covey/Osich/Stock and a bunch of AAA/DFA guys at the bottom of the 40 man roster. Workman and Hembree were traded. Aside from Brasier, Barnes, Walden and Taylor, what's left over doesn't look like the 2018 pen. Walden and Taylor both fell off dramatically for various reasons. Barnes and Brasier both had 4.00 FIP years that were what they were.

[Old Red]

The Opening Day roster doesn't look horrible on paper.

 

C Vazquez

1B Moreland

2B Peraza

SS Bogey

3B Devers

RF Verdugo

CF Pillar

LF Benitendi

 

Where it really went awry was the pitching (29th starter fWAR, 26th pen fWAR):

 

Sale - out for the year TJS and not replaced

ERod - out for the year COVID and not replaced

Eovaldi - pitched fine

Perez - pitched fine

5th Starter - Weber or bullpen game

 

3 out of 5 games were set up to be a s*** show on 8/1/20. There wasn't a good fallback plan. The upper minors depth was weak and the only guy that had a decent ceiling was Houck, but he wasn't added until the end of the year. Mazza/Brewer/Weber/Godley/Triggs/Kickham were what they were, spot starters that were forced into regular roles that encompassed 60% of every game played. It was an embarrassment. Even when Houck showed up, it really only made up for 3 starts that Eovaldi lost to injury.

 

When that's the rotation, it's going to be very hard on the bullpen, which included retreads like Covey/Osich/Stock and a bunch of AAA/DFA guys at the bottom of the 40 man roster. Workman and Hembree were traded. Aside from Brasier, Barnes, Walden and Taylor, what's left over doesn't look like the 2018 pen. Walden and Taylor both fell off dramatically for various reasons. Barnes and Brasier both had 4.00 FIP years that were what they were.

 

Let’s remember too that they took JD’s binky iPad away, and he couldn’t hit with out it.

[moonslav59]

The Opening Day roster doesn't look horrible on paper.

 

C Vazquez

1B Moreland

2B Peraza

SS Bogey

3B Devers

RF Verdugo

CF Pillar

LF Benitendi

 

Where it really went awry was the pitching (29th starter fWAR, 26th pen fWAR):

 

Sale - out for the year TJS and not replaced

ERod - out for the year COVID and not replaced

Eovaldi - pitched fine

Perez - pitched fine

5th Starter - Weber or bullpen game

 

3 out of 5 games were set up to be a s*** show on 8/1/20. There wasn't a good fallback plan. The upper minors depth was weak and the only guy that had a decent ceiling was Houck, but he wasn't added until the end of the year. Mazza/Brewer/Weber/Godley/Triggs/Kickham were what they were, spot starters that were forced into regular roles that encompassed 60% of every game played. It was an embarrassment. Even when Houck showed up, it really only made up for 3 starts that Eovaldi lost to injury.

 

When that's the rotation, it's going to be very hard on the bullpen, which included retreads like Covey/Osich/Stock and a bunch of AAA/DFA guys at the bottom of the 40 man roster. Workman and Hembree were traded. Aside from Brasier, Barnes, Walden and Taylor, what's left over doesn't look like the 2018 pen. Walden and Taylor both fell off dramatically for various reasons. Barnes and Brasier both had 4.00 FIP years that were what they were.

 

The opening day roster did not include ERod or Sale.

 

It also had JBJ in CF and Pillar as the 4th OF'er.

 

https://www.soxprospects.com/2020SB.htm

 

Plus, I said roster, not opening day roster and neither did Old Red in the post I responded to.

 

[dgalehouse]

Per MLBTR, Bogaerts is the Sox top priority…

 

We shall see. I think Bogaerts wants, and deserves, more than they gave Story. How much, and for how long, will they be willing to go for their "top priority?"

[Hugh2]

We shall see. I think Bogaerts wants, and deserves, more than they gave Story. How much, and for how long, will they be willing to go for their "top priority?"

 

The Red Sox might not resign him, but they’re going to offer him more money than Story.

[mvp 78]

We shall see. I think Bogaerts wants, and deserves, more than they gave Story. How much, and for how long, will they be willing to go for their "top priority?"

 

Story was 6/140. I think Bogey is at least 6/150. Would he take it? I wouldn't pay him 6/180 though. I think he's closer to 25AAV IMO. If another team wants to go to 30AAV, he can go elsewhere unless it's like a shorter 4 year deal.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Story was 6/140. I think Bogey is at least 6/150. Would he take it? I wouldn't pay him 6/180 though. I think he's closer to 25AAV IMO. If another team wants to go to 30AAV, he can go elsewhere unless it's like a shorter 4 year deal.

 

Are you including the remaining three years still on his $20M AAV contract? If not, there's no way Xander will agree to stay in Boston for just one more season after that. That was the insult offer last spring.

 

Plus, the probable wear and tear over the next four years makes a better payday then unlikely. Boras will make sure this winter he gets paid for at least the next eight years...

[Bellhorn04]

Are you including the remaining three years still on his $20M AAV contract? If not, there's no way Xander will agree to stay in Boston for just one more season after that. That was the insult offer last spring.

 

Plus, the probable wear and tear over the next four years makes a better payday then unlikely. Boras will make sure this winter he gets paid for at least the next eight years...

 

I think the best way to look at it is to forget about those three years. The moment Bogey opts out it's all back to square one.

 

What's troublesome in determining Bogey's "true market value" is the wild disparity in paydays received by other big name shortstops.

 

Seager $325 mill

Story $140 mill

Correa $105 mill

[notin]

I think the best way to look at it is to forget about those three years. The moment Bogey opts out it's all back to square one.

 

What's troublesome in determining Bogey's "true market value" is the wild disparity in paydays received by other big name shortstops.

 

Seager $325 mill

Story $140 mill

Correa $105 mill

 

And Semien at $175mill.

 

There is a clear divider between getting Seager/Lindor money and getting Story/Semien money - not being 30…

[Bellhorn04]

And Semien at $175mill.

 

There is a clear divider between getting Seager/Lindor money and getting Story/Semien money - not being 30…

 

What about Correa?

[mvp 78]

I think the best way to look at it is to forget about those three years. The moment Bogey opts out it's all back to square one.

 

What's troublesome in determining Bogey's "true market value" is the wild disparity in paydays received by other big name shortstops.

 

Seager $325 mill

Story $140 mill

Correa $105 mill

 

Bogey is rolling the dice and he may not get the payday he thinks he's going to wind up with.

[mvp 78]

And Semien at $175mill.

 

There is a clear divider between getting Seager/Lindor money and getting Story/Semien money - not being 30…

 

Semien was an overpay.