Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Yea I can see why no team would want a 40+HR hitter. You have NO CLUE if Schwarber would have made a difference this year, or not, which you confirmed by saying he wouldn’t have.

 

Nobody said no team, including the Sox doesn't want Schwarber.

 

Back to strawman construction, again. Welcome back.

 

We don't win enough more games with Schwarber over Story to make a difference. Yes.

[Old Red]

Nobody said no team, including the Sox doesn't want Schwarber.

 

Back to strawman construction, again. Welcome back.

 

We don't win enough more games with Schwarber over Story to make a difference. Yes.

 

You didn’t say that. You said signing Schwarber would not have made a difference in 2022, and not as an opinion, but as a matter of fact, which you did not have any facts of. Once again a win for DD, and the Phillies, who I’m sure are thrilled with Schwarber.

[moonslav59]

You didn’t say that. You said signing Schwarber would not have made a difference in 2022, and not as an opinion, but as a matter of fact, which you did not have any facts of. Once again a win for DD, and the Phillies, who I’m sure are thrilled with Schwarber.

 

Schwarber over Story was implied, but yes, I did say it wrongly.

 

I didn't mean it that way.

 

See how easy that is?

[Old Red]

Dombrowski was fired by Henry approximately ten months after he produced the winningest season in Red Sox history, culminating in a World Series championship. Bloom was hired to replace him. At this point in time , it certainly looks like that was a big mistake.

DD is heading back to the WS. Bloom is hanging out in the Div basement.

[moonslav59]

DD would have quit, if he was handed the 2020 budget.

[Old Red]

DD would have quit, if he was handed the 2020 budget.

 

Bloom should now.

[moonslav59]

Bloom should now.

 

You'd enjoy a firing more.

[mvp 78]

The entire comedy was based on him acting buffoonish but redeeming himself at the end by virtue of his heart of gold. In this respect, the obvious influence of Ralph Cramden (of “The Honeymooners”) is rather blatant…

 

Um, Fred Flintstone lived in the Stone Age. The Honeymooners was a tv show that aired in the 1950's. The 1950's existed long after the Stone Age. Duh.

[moonslav59]

Um, Fred Flintstone lived in the Stone Age. The Honeymooners was a tv show that aired in the 1950's. The 1950's existed long after the Stone Age. Duh.

 

Exactly. It was Fred who influenced Ralph!

[notin]

DD is heading back to the WS. Bloom is hanging out in the Div basement.

 

I like the change in approach for DD in Philadelphia.

 

He didn’t sign any free agents to ridiculous long term contracts that will hold the Phillies back in the future. His biggest deals to date was a 4 year contract for Schwarber that, while certainly not small, has not only given immediate short term help but also is very unlikely to handicap the payroll, and a 5 yea LF deal for Castellanos that should produce similarly, especially since the NL now has a DH.

 

He didn’t empty the upper levels of the farm system and instead used his younger players like Stott, Vierling and Dominguez to fill gaps. And even when he did make trades, he got younger minimum wage guys like Brandon Marsh to upgrade, making the heavy contracts he inherited (Harper, Wheeler) easier to carry.

 

His one “flop” was he reverted to his Detroit strategy of just hoping the bullpen worked out. The closer he brought in (Corey Knebel) had a significant injury history that predictably recurred. This postseason, the team has been relying on Seranthony Dominguez, whose historically struggled in that role but is thriving right now.

 

The Aaron Nola contract situation might be his first heavy contract. But this year DD was just a flat out smart GM who built an immediate winner without setting the team up for long term failure.

 

I wish he was able to do that in Boston…

[moonslav59]

I like the change in approach for DD in Philadelphia.

 

He didn’t sign any free agents to ridiculous long term contracts that will hold the Phillies back in the future. His biggest deals to date was a 4 year contract for Schwarber that, while certainly not small, has not only given immediate short term help but also is very unlikely to handicap the payroll, and a 5 yea LF deal for Castellanos that should produce similarly, especially since the NL now has a DH.

 

He didn’t empty the upper levels of the farm system and instead used his younger players like Stott, Vierling and Dominguez to fill gaps. And even when he did make trades, he got younger minimum wage guys like Brandon Marsh to upgrade, making the heavy contracts he inherited (Harper, Wheeler) easier to carry.

 

His one “flop” was he reverted to his Detroit strategy of just hoping the bullpen worked out. The closer he brought in (Corey Knebel) had a significant injury history that predictably recurred. This postseason, the team has been relying on Seranthony Dominguez, whose historically struggled in that role but is thriving right now.

 

The Aaron Nola contract situation might be his first heavy contract. But this year DD was just a flat out smart GM who built an immediate winner without setting the team up for long term failure.

 

I wish he was able to do that in Boston…

 

Maybe, he learned a valuable lesson.

[mvp 78]

Maybe, he learned a valuable lesson.

 

Uh?

 

In Castellanos' age 30 season, he put up -0.7 fWAR. That contract could be bad.

[moonslav59]

Uh?

 

In Castellanos' age 30 season, he put up -0.7 fWAR. That contract could be bad.

 

No GM hits on all his big FA signings, and this wasn't a 7 year deal.

 

I was pointing more towards not trading away over half the top prospects.

[notin]

Uh?

 

In Castellanos' age 30 season, he put up -0.7 fWAR. That contract could be bad.

 

It could be, but not nearly as bad as Price or Sale.

 

And Castellanos’ biggest issues are mostly related to his (lack of) defense. The man couldn’t catch a cold if he was naked in Norway. But that might not be too big a deal as Philadelphia can bury him at DH…

[mvp 78]

It could be, but not nearly as bad as Price or Sale.

 

And Castellanos’ biggest issues are mostly related to his (lack of) defense. The man couldn’t catch a cold if he was naked in Norway. But that might not be too big a deal as Philadelphia can bury him at DH…

 

Castellanos had a 94 wRC+ with only 13 HR's and an OPS under 700. In the playoffs, his OPS has been under 600. He has been horrible this season regardless of his glove. That's 5 years of a bad contract.

[notin]

Castellanos had a 94 wRC+ with only 13 HR's and an OPS under 700. In the playoffs, his OPS has been under 600. He has been horrible this season regardless of his glove. That's 5 years of a bad contract.

 

If you like to call that one a whiff for DD, I’m fine with it.

 

He still didn’t run the Phillies like he ran the Red Sox…

[Bellhorn04]

DD has also shown he knows a thing or two about managers. Replacing Girardi has paid off hugely. And of course he hired Cora.

[notin]

DD has also shown he knows a thing or two about managers. Replacing Girardi has paid off hugely. And of course he hired Cora.

 

 

Even his detractors don’t think he’s an idiot. There’sa reason he’s been the GM of 4 teams and his most unsuccessful tenure was his stretch in Detroit as the Annual American League Runner Up.

 

I just was never a fan of his short term run for glory followed by the inevitable mess he leaves behind. Even Detroit is still dealing with this as the biggest contract on their payroll was one he negotiated, and this will be the case in 2023 as well.

 

But when he had years like he had in Philly, for whatever reason, he’s doing the type of job I want to see.

 

Of course, it’s also possible Philly we see the Old DD very soon..,

[moonslav59]

Even his detractors don’t think he’s an idiot. There’sa reason he’s been the GM of 4 teams and his most unsuccessful tenure was his stretch in Detroit as the Annual American League Runner Up.

 

I just was never a fan of his short term run for glory followed by the inevitable mess he leaves behind. Even Detroit is still dealing with this as the biggest contract on their payroll was one he negotiated, and this will be the case in 2023 as well.

 

But when he had years like he had in Philly, for whatever reason, he’s doing the type of job I want to see.

 

Of course, it’s also possible Philly we see the Old DD very soon..,

 

I'm not sure there is a single poster who is totally upset with DD's reign in Boston. Maybe Kimmi was by the most.

 

I'm very happy he was our GM. It was the perfect set-up for him. Personally, I think he went a little to far trading away so many prospects, but the end result paid off, bigtime.

 

Liking what he did for us does not mean I have to ignore the consequences of his actions. Between Devers' arrival in 2017 and Bello in 2022, only Houck has given us any significant production from the farm. That is reality. It has also been a major factor in our lack of success from 2019-2022. The contracts he gave out helped us win 3 division titles and the amazing season of 2018, but many became a hinderance from 2019 to today, and with Sale, perhaps even longer.

 

The farm he left us was not great, but he did not trade away the inherited Devers, and several of his lower level prospects additions are just now looking to make positive impacts (Casas, Bello and maybe Mata, Rafaela and Walter.) He may have a lasting positive affect on the team, eventually, but the 5 year stretch of just Houck and some bloated contracts will be hard to balance out, when we view his after affects in totality.

 

To me, the after effects were worth it. Others, maybe no so much. Still others seem to want to minimize the effect he has on the 2019-2022 era.

[Old Red]

I'm not sure there is a single poster who is totally upset with DD's reign in Boston. Maybe Kimmi was by the most.

 

I'm very happy he was our GM. It was the perfect set-up for him. Personally, I think he went a little to far trading away so many prospects, but the end result paid off, bigtime.

 

Liking what he did for us does not mean I have to ignore the consequences of his actions. Between Devers' arrival in 2017 and Bello in 2022, only Houck has given us any significant production from the farm. That is reality. It has also been a major factor in our lack of success from 2019-2022. The contracts he gave out helped us win 3 division titles and the amazing season of 2018, but many became a hinderance from 2019 to today, and with Sale, perhaps even longer.

 

The farm he left us was not great, but he did not trade away the inherited Devers, and several of his lower level prospects additions are just now looking to make positive impacts (Casas, Bello and maybe Mata, Rafaela and Walter.) He may have a lasting positive affect on the team, eventually, but the 5 year stretch of just Houck and some bloated contracts will be hard to balance out, when we view his after affects in totality.

 

To me, the after effects were worth it. Others, maybe no so much. Still others seem to want to minimize the effect he has on the 2019-2022 era.

 

What prospect did DD trade away that would have made a bigger difference today than who he was traded for at the time?

[mvp 78]

If you like to call that one a whiff for DD, I’m fine with it.

 

He still didn’t run the Phillies like he ran the Red Sox…

 

It's working out in 2022. I can't speak to the Phillies farm stuff at all.

[mvp 78]

What prospect did DD trade away that would have made a bigger difference today than who he was traded for at the time?

 

Espinal

Dubon

[moonslav59]

What prospect did DD trade away that would have made a bigger difference today than who he was traded for at the time?

 

Again, you miss the point.

 

I'm glad he made the trades. They worked. I didn't think he needed to make so many, but it worked.

 

That doesn't mean Kopech, Margot, Moncada, Dubon, Espinal and a few others would not be helpful, now. That doesn't mean getting only Houck from the farm in 5 years didn't hurt us.

[mvp 78]

The biggest negative DD had was the the signings AFTER 2018: Sale and Eovaldi and not figuring out how to re-sign Betts. That put the org into a tailspin IMO.

[Old Red]

Again, you miss the point.

 

I'm glad he made the trades. They worked. I didn't think he needed to make so many, but it worked.

 

That doesn't mean Kopech, Margot, Moncada, Dubon, Espinal and a few others would not be helpful, now. That doesn't mean getting only Houck from the farm in 5 years didn't hurt us.

I got the point, but I just don’t agree to the degree that you do. I don’t agree to the degree that you do that the Sox are like they are today, or have been after the 2018 season like you do, because of DD. To me this past season had more to do with injuries, and lack of production from certain players than how DD left the team. I do agree that the farm has not been that productive, but just not as a main reason for the lack of success.

[Old Red]

The biggest negative DD had was the the signings AFTER 2018: Sale and Eovaldi and not figuring out how to re-sign Betts. That put the org into a tailspin IMO.

 

Resigning Sale with a year to go on his contract with a bum left wing was a blunder many times over. I didn’t like the Evol signing at the time, but at least they got some production out of him. Even if the money had been equal I’m not so sure Betts would have stayed anyway.

[notin]

Espinal

Dubon

 

If the criteria is “better today than what we got at the time,” auspicious as that criterion is, then non-prospect Wade Miley “The Unpleasant One” fits. Since Carson Smith made no contribution beyond sitting on the Injured List in between tantrums.

[notin]

Resigning Sale with a year to go on his contract with a bum left wing was a blunder many times over. I didn’t like the Evol signing at the time, but at least they got some production out of him. Even if the money had been equal I’m not so sure Betts would have stayed anyway.

 

 

I railed against Eovaldi’s deal, but he was outstanding in 2021 and actually healthier than I thought he’d be, which doesn’t mean he was healthy.

 

The problem was when DD left, the Sox had about $300 mill tied up in Sale, Price and Eovaldi. And Eovaldi - with a history that already included two TJs - was the healthiest of the three…

[Old Red]

Espinal

Dubon

 

Both would help, but neither are any kind of difference maker.

[moonslav59]

I got the point, but I just don’t agree to the degree that you do. I don’t agree to the degree that you do that the Sox are like they are today, or have been after the 2018 season like you do, because of DD. To me this past season had more to do with injuries, and lack of production from certain players than how DD left the team. I do agree that the farm has not been that productive, but just not as a main reason for the lack of success.

 

What winning team adds just a Houck in a 5 year period? That's a huge aspect to overcome for any GM.

 

One way to overcome it is to have budget space to fill the holes. Nope, that was used up, too. That's the second huge aspect we could not overcome.

 

The injuries in 2022 were very significant, but other than Sale's injuries and ERod out for 2020, we were pretty healthy from 2019-2021. I was talking about the full 4 year period from 2019-2022, but it was 5 years from the devers to Bello call-ups.