A Realistic View at 2021: Part II

[moonslav59]

You have guys who are so damn hot right now it’s almost comical. Don’t give the “some of the team isn’t hot” argument. Vaz is around career norms. The rest of the trash you noted are just that, trash. Once JD remembers he’s on planet earth and Bogey comes back a bit, the offense will struggle. Today you got an offense that was handled by a 30 yr old coming back from Korea and Bad Nate decided to show his face. Nate also had a drop in velo today, which makes you wonder if he just didn’t have it or if (as his history shows) he’s got an injury.

 

The Sox are fading as expected after their uncanny 9 in a row run. It’s a long season. The response to the fade will be telling for the Sox team. Do they become the 4 wins in 10 team they were predicted to be, or can they be more the 85-90 win team some of you hoped they’d be?

 

You are comical, at times. You and your velo obsessions.

 

Nobody said the guys I listed were studs, but they aren't sub .550 batters either.

 

I guess somehow that's worse that your studs hitting sub .600 or .550.

 

Nice to see you all excited about climbing out of the cellar, today.

 

[Sox75]

You have guys who are so damn hot right now it’s almost comical. Don’t give the “some of the team isn’t hot” argument. Vaz is around career norms. The rest of the trash you noted are just that, trash. Once JD remembers he’s on planet earth and Bogey comes back a bit, the offense will struggle. Today you got an offense that was handled by a 30 yr old coming back from Korea and Bad Nate decided to show his face. Nate also had a drop in velo today, which makes you wonder if he just didn’t have it or if (as his history shows) he’s got an injury.

 

The Sox are fading as expected after their uncanny 9 in a row run. It’s a long season. The response to the fade will be telling for the Sox team. Do they become the 4 wins in 10 team they were predicted to be, or can they be more the 85-90 win team some of you hoped they’d be?

 

Wow... somebody finally decided to talk Sox ball after hiding for weeks praying his guys would show some signs of life?

 

What a Jacksonian moon walk. Sliding backward, looking for traction.

 

Yeh... your boys will get it rolling, but I'm gonna love your every obnoxious Yankme whine along the way!

 

"Yeh BUT...."

 

We saw your Jacksonian bravado in March, & I can't wait to hear more whining through September. Sep tem ber mourn! You whined until the night became a brand new day. 1 whiner played the scenes of some romantic play....

September MOURNing still can make be feel that way....

 

Whine on Jack! I LOVE IT!

 

Honest to God dude. You have an historically great team, but you are so threatened by the currently historic down arch rival, that you feel the NEED to troll THEIR internet board. Most erudite Yankee fans would chomp at the chance at their historic rival showing signs of real life, but every run by the predicted "DOWN & OUT" Red Sox will see you wetting the bed, praying the Sox don't spoil your chances in October.

 

I said 93 wins before the season? I'm now hoping for 95, and spoiling every Sox v. YANKme series, only to listen to you make excuses and whine at .."how could this s*** Sox team roll your boys?... LUCK! Dumb LUCK!"

 

We have EPIC problems, so I can't wait to hear your season long whining over how the Sox are still in it late in September.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Sox75

[jacksonianmarch]

I spent far more time whining about the Yanks this first month, clearly. Also, I’ve been really busy professionally this month and haven’t been chatting due to a grind of a schedule. I haven’t seen a baseball game since the 19th, just game casting and audio since I’ve been clinical. My hope is I get to start watching more as my schedule clears up, but I won’t be able to watch a game until probably the 6th inning on Monday night!

 

While the guys who are sucking on your squad have a history of better success, they are guys who suck chronically. Those guys can fall off the table. The guys sucking for the Yanks are perennial all stars. They typically right the ship

[Nick]

How can you be so sure Duran and others are better than what we have?

 

Yes, maybe better than sub .500, but there's no way anyone can expect Cordero, Renfroe and others to keep hitting as poorly as they have in less than this 70-90 PA sample size.

 

I don't want to hear management complain about our pitching staff without seeing what Houck and Whitlock can do as starters.

 

Not saying Duran is better but obviously Cordero and Franchy are not performing.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't want to hear management complain about our pitching staff without seeing what Houck and Whitlock can do as starters.

 

Not saying Duran is better but obviously Cordero and Franchy are not performing.

 

No fair making him into two guys.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don't want to hear management complain about our pitching staff without seeing what Houck and Whitlock can do as starters.

 

Not saying Duran is better but obviously Cordero and Franchy are not performing.

 

I never said bring up Duran to replace Cordero; I was just lamenting the brass passed on a lot of cheap, proven big league outfielders this winter. But the majors isn't the place for on-the-job training -- unless a team is out of contention, has no honest aspirations to contend, and is auditioning for the future.

 

As for Franchy Mo Pena -- he's never been good in the MLB, in parts of five seasons. Sox management may think and/or hope he might be -- someday -- but they're wrong if they think the fan base (and media -- look at all the Cordero articles already) will be patient enough to keep buying tickets, Jordan's furniture, Chevys etc. waiting for it to happen.

 

Especially, after the debacle that was 2020.

[Bellhorn04]

I never said bring up Duran to replace Cordero; I was just lamenting the brass passed on a lot of cheap, proven big league outfielders this winter.

 

Who are you referring to?

[Bellhorn04]

While the guys who are sucking on your squad have a history of better success, they are guys who suck chronically. Those guys can fall off the table. The guys sucking for the Yanks are perennial all stars. They typically right the ship

 

Who are you counting as perennial all stars?

[Bellhorn04]

I was hoping we'd sign Kevin Pillar. He's hitting .091.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Hell of a coincidence that Jacksonianmarch crawled out of the cellar at the same time the Yankems did. I've heard that if one ignores Yankem fans, they usually disappear.

[Bellhorn04]

I find Yankee fans don't bother me near as much since we 'righted the ship' with them in 2004 and 2018.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Who are you referring to?

 

All the good-glove, veteran outfielders we discussed all winter who ultimately signed affordable contracts elsewhere, like Taylor, Marisnick, Pillar, etc. But like we have rehashed, those are the kinds of luxuries true contenders add to balance rosters (or that teams opting for "versatility" avoid).

[Bellhorn04]

All the good-glove, veteran outfielders we discussed all winter who ultimately signed affordable contracts elsewhere, like Taylor, Marisnick, Pillar, etc. But like we have rehashed, those are the kinds of luxuries true contenders add to balance rosters (or that teams opting for "versatility" avoid).

 

Bloom's construction of the 2021 outfield is looking a bit questionable, I'll agree with that.

[jacksonianmarch]

Who are you counting as perennial all stars?

 

Stanton, Judge, Lemahieu, Sanchez and Torres have all made multiple all star games.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bloom's construction of the 2021 outfield is looking a bit questionable, I'll agree with that.

 

Bloom rolled the dice on the OF for a reason. If Renfroe and Cordero found their stroke in Fenway, then you’re gold. If not and the Sox are in contention, it’s very easy to snag a serviceable OFer via trade.

[notin]

I never said bring up Duran to replace Cordero; I was just lamenting the brass passed on a lot of cheap, proven big league outfielders this winter. But the majors isn't the place for on-the-job training -- unless a team is out of contention, has no honest aspirations to contend, and is auditioning for the future.

 

As for Franchy Mo Pena -- he's never been good in the MLB, in parts of five seasons. Sox management may think and/or hope he might be -- someday -- but they're wrong if they think the fan base (and media -- look at all the Cordero articles already) will be patient enough to keep buying tickets, Jordan's furniture, Chevys etc. waiting for it to happen.

 

Especially, after the debacle that was 2020.

 

 

Even a lot of those cheap outfielders appeared to cost more than the Sox were willing to spend. Sure, say, Eddie Rosario only cost what, $8mill for one year. But who was the last free agent the Sox signed for with an AAV that high? Right now the only one Bloom has signed is Enrique Hernandez. And while Hernandez is not exactly crushing it (99 OPS+), neither is Rosario (74 OPS+).

 

This year, putting together a quick fix team did not appear to be the priority, because spending heavily with no cheap fill-in players is a death trap for a team. The Sox took some chances with scouting report guys with weak stats, like Cordero and Pivetta. The down side is, they could easily continue to flounder or get injured. But even if that happens, there is no real commitment. They're not stuck paying them for the next 4 to 6 seasons to continue to flop.

 

But the goal was clearly to get players behind them in the minors. Players who might not becaome stars, but at the very least, can make the roster while being paid league minimum, which frees up the budget to either bring in better players or extend some of the current players like Devers and Verdugo, or both. Obviously the Sox hope Cordero and Pivetta and probably a few others can play well enough to join that list. But while that decision is being made, they did not want to be stuck with any other long term commitments, at least not now.

 

The actual real problem with that plan was the Sox started winning. And now fans can't tolerate the gambles they took because they are not all paying off right away. But this team was never expected to be in this position. It''s only been what, a little over two weeks since they got swept at Fenway by lowly Baltimore and John Tomase wrote one of the most scathing articles about this team most of us have ever seen. After reading that article, was the thought really "Well, if we did not have Renfroe and Cordero, we could contend"?

 

THere is going to have to be some patience. This team had a payroll well over $240 million two years ago and finished up in early October, and THAT was when all the really scathing articles about the long term view of the Sox and their commitments to Sale, Price and Eovaldi were gong to drag this team down further, especially given the state of the minimum wage guys aka the "Cliff". And they might have even been correct assessments, but Bloom tried to clean that mess up. Right now, the biggest complaint against him is maybe he cleaned it up too quickly and the team is trying to contend with too many players with unforeseeable futures...

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I've watched all the SOX games so far this season. Defensively, with Dugo in LF, Kike in CF, and Renfroe in RF, I fail to see a problem. Offensively, except for Dugo, at this point, there is a problem.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Cordero signed for 1yr/$1,000,000. That sounds close to the league minimum in salary. So there's no way Franchey will be an albatross in the SOX future, unlike, let's say Stanton of the Yankems. Edited April 25, 2021 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

The actual real problem with that plan was the Sox started winning.

 

I wrote this the other day. The real problem for Bloom and Co. is if the Sox are still on top in July, and fell compelled to be buyers; trading prospects for a rental or two while standing in the middle of the bridge may be unpalatable for the FO... but standing pat and not addressing areas of need can destroy team morale and cause friction with Cora (though he'd never admit it publicly).

[notin]

I wrote this the other day. The real problem for Bloom and Co. is if the Sox are still on top in July, and fell compelled to be buyers; trading prospects for a rental or two while standing in the middle of the bridge may be unpalatable for the FO... but standing pat and not addressing areas of need can destroy team morale and cause friction with Cora (though he'd never admit it publicly).

 

I’ve wondered about that scenario in the past.

 

We as fans like the deadline acquisitions when the message to us is “We’re trying to win right now!” But do the actual players hear that same message? Obviously trading away MLB roster players sends a clear message to both fans and players. But what about inactivity at the deadline? Do players view that as a quiet white flag? Or do they hear a message saying “you guys are good enough to win it all as is”?

 

I have absolutely no idea...

[Bellhorn04]

Cordero signed for 1yr/$1,000,000. That sounds close to the league minimum in salary. So there's no way Franchey will be an albatross in the SOX future, unlike, let's say Stanton of the Yankems.

 

Excellent point.

[Bellhorn04]

I wrote this the other day. The real problem for Bloom and Co. is if the Sox are still on top in July, and fell compelled to be buyers; trading prospects for a rental or two while standing in the middle of the bridge may be unpalatable for the FO... but standing pat and not addressing areas of need can destroy team morale and cause friction with Cora (though he'd never admit it publicly).

 

If we're in position for a deadline acquisition, taking someone else's salary dump would be much more palatable for sure. I don't think Bloom wants to trade any prospects this year.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I’ve wondered about that scenario in the past.

 

We as fans like the deadline acquisitions when the message to us is “We’re trying to win right now!” But do the actual players hear that same message? Obviously trading away MLB roster players sends a clear message to both fans and players. But what about inactivity at the deadline? Do players view that as a quiet white flag? Or do they hear a message saying “you guys are good enough to win it all as is”?

 

I have absolutely no idea...

 

I remember listening to Merloni when the '19 deadline passed and the Sox didn't add anyone, especially bullpen help, which was a dire need at the time. In effect, he said the message to the team of no deals at the deadline meant the FO didn't think they were good enough to go "all-in." Demoralizing.

 

On the flip side, the Astros were supposedly ecstatic when they nabbed Verlander at the end of the summer of '17. Imagine the boost of confidence to an already good team that acquires a Cy Young for the stretch drive...

[Sox75]

I spent far more time whining about the Yanks this first month, clearly. Also, I’ve been really busy professionally this month and haven’t been chatting due to a grind of a schedule. I haven’t seen a baseball game since the 19th, just game casting and audio since I’ve been clinical. My hope is I get to start watching more as my schedule clears up, but I won’t be able to watch a game until probably the 6th inning on Monday night!

 

While the guys who are sucking on your squad have a history of better success, they are guys who suck chronically. Those guys can fall off the table. The guys sucking for the Yanks are perennial all stars. They typically right the ship

 

How about then, you do as I suggested after our inauspicious yet seemingly predictable 0 - 3 start, when you jumped on to declare the Red Sox DOA and the Yankees the easy AL leader in October. "Show some class."

 

I suggested that I was happy that the Yankees, and you might root for their historic rival crawling out of the cellar to overperform and make things remotely interesting?

 

You didn't seem interested? You seemed to be dancing on our premature burial site.

 

I have NO DOUBT that the Yankees will come roaring back, and your talent will start hammering the ball. Good on them! I want the Sox and the entire AL to face the best.

Sorry! But your early & continued celebration of Red Sox doom was irritating. You disappeared when the Sox got on that unforseen epic run, and now you're back to crow again.

 

I suppose it's all good, as I of course enjoy watching your Yankees stumble on their way to the top. That's just fun to watch.

 

Anyway... take your licks. Enjoy the coming Yankee surge. & let's get this on!!

Edited April 25, 2021 by Sox75

[Bellhorn04]

I remember listening to Merloni when the '19 deadline passed and the Sox didn't add anyone, especially bullpen help, which was a dire need at the time. In effect, he said the message to the team of no deals at the deadline meant the FO didn't think they were good enough to go "all-in." Demoralizing.

 

On the flip side, the Astros were supposedly ecstatic when they nabbed Verlander at the end of the summer of '17. Imagine the boost of confidence to an already good team that acquires a Cy Young for the stretch drive...

 

And in 3 out of our 4 championship years we made very helpful acquisitions at the deadline. The only exception was Gagne in 2007.

[notin]

If we're in position for a deadline acquisition, taking someone else's salary dump would be much more palatable for sure. I don't think Bloom wants to trade any prospects this year.

 

And the way he has been working those types of deals, he might take a salary dump and get a prospect as well...

[notin]

And in 3 out of our 4 championship years we made very helpful acquisitions at the deadline. The only exception was Gagne in 2007.

 

And Bobby Kielty, with his WS Game 4 home run that was the difference.

 

Hey sometimes it’s the lesser acquisitions that make the greater difference...

[notin]

And in 3 out of our 4 championship years we made very helpful acquisitions at the deadline. The only exception was Gagne in 2007.

 

Also worth noting is the 2004 deadline trade did not look equal on paper. The Sox traded away one of the best shortstops in team history and acquired a talented but lesser shortstop and a defensive replacement at 1b. Maybe getting rid of Nomar made the clubhouse better? But then we all know acquiring Mientkiewicz didn’t sit well with Millar...

[Bellhorn04]

Also worth noting is the 2004 deadline trade did not look equal on paper. The Sox traded away one of the best shortstops in team history and acquired a talented but lesser shortstop and a defensive replacement at 1b. Maybe getting rid of Nomar made the clubhouse better?

 

Made the clubhouse better and made the defense at shortstop a whole lot better.

 

Theo astutely recognized that Nomar's defense had seriously regressed and was a huge liability.

[Bellhorn04]

I should add that from the rumors that emerged later, O-Cab was not such a great clubhouse addition in certain respects...