A Realistic View at 2021: Part II

[Larry Cook]

Without Rodriguez, our pitching staff is a giant dumpster fire!

[oldtimer]

It does.

 

It's hard to imagine us competing without ERod doing well.

 

I am also concerned with our outfield. We are probably opening with Renfroe and Codero. They could be fine but you have to wonder about guys who weren't solid enough to be kept by their current teams. Renfroe looks like a good fielder. I noticed Codero likes to play so deep that balls can fall in on him. ERod is the largest concern but you have to also wonder why management is taking the risk in the outfield.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I am also concerned with our outfield. We are probably opening with Renfroe and Codero. They could be fine but you have to wonder about guys who weren't solid enough to be kept by their current teams. Renfroe looks like a good fielder. I noticed Codero likes to play so deep that balls can fall in on him. ERod is the largest concern but you have to also wonder why management is taking the risk in the outfield.

 

Management has basically said they're not all in, and can't/won't spend big or longterm right now. There is a definite chance that none of the outfielders will be part of any core of contenders -- when/if they're good enough to contend again (especially if Bloom trades Verdugo, whose youth, potential and years of control make him without a doubt one of the most attractive chips).

[Nick]

Management has basically said they're not all in, and can't/won't spend big or longterm right now. There is a definite chance that none of the outfielders will be part of any core of contenders -- when/if they're good enough to contend again (especially if Bloom trades Verdugo, whose youth, potential and years of control make him without a doubt one of the most attractive chips).

 

Why don't you tell us which outfielders will get us to 'we'll all in status'? Did you consider JBJ and Beni as core of contenders?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Why don't you tell us which outfielders will get us to 'we'll all in status'? Did you consider JBJ and Beni as core of contenders?

 

They were in 2018. Why don't you ask Sam Kennedy when they'll be "all in" again? Maybe by then, Cordero, Renfroe and Duran will have improved their skills and honed their tools. All five of them have serious holes in their games right now.

[Bellhorn04]

They were in 2018. Why don't you ask Sam Kennedy when they'll be "all in" again? Maybe by then, Cordero, Renfroe and Duran will have improved their skills and honed their tools. All five of them have serious holes in their games right now.

 

JBJ and Beni had holes in their games in 2019.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

JBJ and Beni had holes in their games in 2019.

 

No doubt, but at least they were polished professional outfielders. I was responding to Elk's question of why management is risking playing a guy like Cordero this season.

[Bellhorn04]

No doubt, but at least they were polished professional outfielders. I was responding to Elk's question of why management is risking playing a guy like Cordero this season.

 

They're going cheap in some areas this year, no argument there.

 

One thing that's slightly puzzling is why they haven't entertained the idea of Kike in center. As moon has pointed out, his defensive numbers there are very good.

[a700hitter]

JBJ and Beni had holes in their games in 2019.

JBJ was there for the elite D. Anything from his bat was a plus. Beni had an awful off year, but he had proved to be a solid major leaguer both offensively and defensively. Among the group we have now, none are proved elite defenders. And none are proved as consistent MLB offensive players, except Renfroe does have big time power— if you like the Dave Kingman types.

[Bellhorn04]

E-Rod's dead arm and Barnes testing positive for COVID have knocked some of the optimism out of me, I must say. When you have as little depth as we do, every loss is magnified.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

E-Rod's dead arm and Barnes testing positive for COVID have knocked some of the optimism out of me, I must say. When you have as little depth as we do, every loss is magnified.

 

Maybe a positive will be they'll be forced to try younger options, who may get experience sooner. Sox fans can get on board watching hopefuls develop, but there's no way they'll stand -- or sit (in front of the tube) -- watching more castoffs from bargain bins again.

[jacksonianmarch]

Trivia: Righthander Matt Andriese once surrendered back-to-back home runs in each hitter's first MLB plate appearance. Who were the two rookies in August 2016 (neither of whom are favorites of Red Sox fans)?

 

Tyler Austin and Aaron Judge

[Nick]

They were in 2018. Why don't you ask Sam Kennedy when they'll be "all in" again? Maybe by then, Cordero, Renfroe and Duran will have improved their skills and honed their tools. All five of them have serious holes in their games right now.

 

I'm just asking if we were all in, what players were out there for us to improve the outfield situation? Obviously the management didn't think much of JBJ and Beni after the 2020 season.

 

Problem I have is posters not presenting solutions to their perceived problems with the Sox.

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I was thinking there was an outfield free agent available. I'm old and I can't remember.

 

To me it appears that with all the short term deals, Sox is trying to find up a core group going forward.

 

I like the idea of Hernandez playing CF also; although Bloom has said on record he thinks Duran has chance to be 'great' so Sox thinks he's our future CF.

 

Quite frankly, I'm excited to see which new comers are 'keepers'. Let the season begin.

[dgalehouse]

For what it's worth ( probably not much , considering their track record ) Sports Illustrated predicts the Sox will win 80 games and finish fourth in the A.L. East.

[dgalehouse]

The " Killer B's " outfield made for watching winning, often exciting baseball. Obviously, Betts was the main factor. No matter how you cut it or where you place them , the current group just does not measure up to that. As far as going " all in " , it certainly does not seem to be the case . Just have to hope for the best . A relatively easy early season schedule should help us get off to a good start. Very important to take advantage of that and generate some confidence and enthusiasm.

[notin]

The " Killer B's " outfield made for watching winning, often exciting baseball. Obviously, Betts was the main factor. No matter how you cut it or where you place them , the current group just does not measure up to that. As far as going " all in " , it certainly does not seem to be the case . Just have to hope for the best . A relatively easy early season schedule should help us get off to a good start. Very important to take advantage of that and generate some confidence and enthusiasm.

 

The Killer B's were basically Betts and two good complimentary pieces. The Sox still had 2/3 of that outfield last year...

[jad]

The Killer B's were basically Betts and two good complimentary pieces. The Sox still had 2/3 of that outfield last year...

 

So now they have zero pieces. Plus they got rid of that stiff Price by paying half his salary to play for someone else. Because really, who needs starting pitching? Things are looking up.

[Bellhorn04]

So now they have zero pieces. Plus they got rid of that stiff Price by paying half his salary to play for someone else. Because really, who needs starting pitching? Things are looking up.

 

We lost Beni, a .273 hitter, and JBJ, a .239 hitter, and we gained Verdugo, a .290 hitter.

 

So how can it be zero pieces?

 

A little negativity is understandable, but let's try to at least be a little reasonable...

[notin]

So now they have zero pieces. Plus they got rid of that stiff Price by paying half his salary to play for someone else. Because really, who needs starting pitching? Things are looking up.

 

 

Would Price have made the Sox any better last year? Hint: No. He opted out of playing.

 

Right now the biggest problem with the Sox is Sale’s injury. With a healthy Sale, there is a greater treason to build a competitive team around him. Without Sale, it’s very difficult. And replacing Sale is next to impossible...

[notin]

We lost Beni, a .273 hitter, and JBJ, a .239 hitter, and we gained Verdugo, a .290 hitter.

 

So how can it be zero pieces?

 

A little negativity is understandable, but let's try to at least be a little reasonable...

 

 

Betts was irreplaceable. Benintendi and Bradley were both good but very replaceable.

 

Verdugo can easily wind up being better than Benintendi or Bradley (or both!). But it seems like no one wants to see any outfielders except Renfroe and Cordero...

[oldtimer]

E-Rod's dead arm and Barnes testing positive for COVID have knocked some of the optimism out of me, I must say. When you have as little depth as we do, every loss is magnified.

 

The schedule for the first 15 games looked like we could come away with a positive record. E-Rod's loss and Covid impacting our BP could set us back temporarily.

[moonslav59]

JBJ was there for the elite D. Anything from his bat was a plus. Beni had an awful off year, but he had proved to be a solid major leaguer both offensively and defensively. Among the group we have now, none are proved elite defenders. And none are proved as consistent MLB offensive players, except Renfroe does have big time power— if you like the Dave Kingman types.

 

Looking forward, I'd much rather have Verdugo than JBJ or Beni and probably even both combined.

 

That is all that really matters.

 

Past accomplishments are just that- in the past.

[moonslav59]

E-Rod's dead arm and Barnes testing positive for COVID have knocked some of the optimism out of me, I must say. When you have as little depth as we do, every loss is magnified.

 

Other teams will be facing the same sort of issues.

 

While our depth does not look great, it's better than the last 2 years, and we have hope in guys like Duran, Arauz, Munoz, Downs and others, as well as pitchers like Houck, Seabold, Bazardo and others.

 

I'm concerned, too. I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a firesale summer, but at least that would mean we'd likely be better in 2022 and beyond.

[Sox75]

Celtics moves vs. Red Sox?

 

I'm much happier with Bloom than Danny Ainge right now.

 

In fact, I give the Red Sox a 4 to 1 edge in going deep in the playoffs!

 

Somehow, that gives me great hope for our Sox.

[jad]

Would Price have made the Sox any better last year? Hint: No. He opted out of playing.

 

Right now the biggest problem with the Sox is Sale’s injury. With a healthy Sale, there is a greater treason to build a competitive team around him. Without Sale, it’s very difficult. And replacing Sale is next to impossible...

 

He would have made minor leaguers in the RS system happier! But hey, I'd take a re-set over a WS appearance any day of the week.

[oldtimer]

Looking forward, I'd much rather have Verdugo than JBJ or Beni and probably even both combined.

 

That is all that really matters.

 

Past accomplishments are just that- in the past.

Verdugo is an excellent piece of the outfield while in the case of Renfroe and Codero, the verdict is out. They are still young enough so there is hope. I was just pointing out the risk associated with those two. Duran could well be a solid outfielder soon. His slump late in Spring training justifies giving him a little more time.

[moonslav59]

The Killer B's were basically Betts and two good complimentary pieces. The Sox still had 2/3 of that outfield last year...

 

For what it's worth...

 

BTV Trade Value:

 

48.1 Verdugo

14.0 Duran

10.8 Jimenez

4.6 Beni

3.5 Cordero

0.6 Renfroe

0.6 Munoz

0.5 Kike

0.2 Marwin

-4.1 JBJ

-5.7 Betts

Edited March 27, 2021 by moonslav59

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

For what it's worth...

 

BTV Trade Value:

 

48.1 Verdugo

14.0 Duran

10.8 Jimenez

4.6 Beni

3.5 Cordero

0.6 Renfroe

0.6 Munoz

0.5 Kike

0.2 Marwin

-4.1 JBJ

-5.7 Betts

 

Thanks for the qualifier (trying to post an icon...)

 

Things to consider: Verdugo turns 25 in May. Is his ceiling higher than Beni's age 22/23 seasons, when Andrew averaged 18 HR, 88 RBI, 94 Runs, 20 SB, .280 BA, .803 OPS?

 

Benintendi turns 27 in July... will he ever again approach his age 22/23 stats?

 

Regarding that -5.7 guy: what would LA have to give up to get the Sox to take TWELVE MORE YEARS of Mookie Betts?

[moonslav59]

Thanks for the qualifier (trying to post an icon...)

 

Things to consider: Verdugo turns 25 in May. Is his ceiling higher than Beni's age 22/23 seasons, when Andrew averaged 18 HR, 88 RBI, 94 Runs, 20 SB, .280 BA, .803 OPS?

 

Benintendi turns 27 in July... will he ever again approach his age 22/23 stats?

 

Regarding that -5.7 guy: what would LA have to give up to get the Sox to take TWELVE MORE YEARS of Mookie Betts?

 

Apparently, with that contract, not much to nothing.

 

Certainly, Betts is by far the best of this bunch, but Verdugo is a solid second.

 

OPS 2019-2020 (PAs listed, if under 600)

.919 Betts

.827 Verdugo

.773 Cordero (62)

.760 JBJ

.751 Beni

.749 Renfroe

.749 Puello (158)

.707 E Hern

.698 Marwin

.692 Munoz (226)

 

[moonslav59]

So, no ERod & no Barnes.

 

Hopefully, it won't be for long. Assuming both go on the IL or the COVID list, who's on the 26 man roster:

 

14 Pitchers:

Eovaldi, Richards, Perez, Pivetta, Andriese (at least for 1-2 starts)

 

Ottavino, D Hern, Sawamura, Taylor, Whitlock, Brice, Brewer, Valdez

 

Other options:

SP: Houck, Seabold, Gossett, Hart, Weber

RP: Bazardo

 

(Others on IL: Sale & Brasier)

 

12 Non Pitchers (Cordero is on C19 list but may make opening day roster)

Vazquez & Plawecki

Dalbec

Kike

Devers

Bogaerts

Marwin

Verdugo

Renfroe

JD

 

Bench: Arroyo & Chavis

 

Other options:

CF Duran

IF Arauz

2B/SS Downs