2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

Exactly. Big picture.

 

If ownership gave Bloom the green light, we'd be a different team (we saw that when the pedal was to the floor with DD). Ownership just decided it was ok to take a step back for the short term. I think they though "be competitive in 2021" meant 86-88 wins and outside of the playoffs. They are probably looking at this season as playing with house money. If we didn't start off so hot, there'd be less frustration.

[Bellhorn04]

If ownership gave Bloom the green light, we'd be a different team (we saw that when the pedal was to the floor with DD). Ownership just decided it was ok to take a step back for the short term. I think they though "be competitive in 2021" meant 86-88 wins and outside of the playoffs. They are probably looking at this season as playing with house money. If we didn't start off so hot, there'd be less frustration.

 

When you're the Red Sox, house money doesn't last long.

 

If the team ends up 85-77 and out of even a play-in game, the final verdict is 3 consecutive s***** seasons.

[mvp 78]

2018 was the GREATEST Red Sox team.

 

The following year, there was a swoon. Ownership decided they couldn't pay for their greatest homegrown everyday player in a few generations. They disbanded the entire OF that they had hyped up in 2018. The team they gave us was mediocre and bereft of personality. Their ace went out on injury. Xander is great, but he's just boring. He's the lunch pail SS who shows up and is an upper tier SS. JD mashes, but is generally as exciting as watching paint dry. Devers is fun as all hell to me, but I'm not sure how well he has connected with a lot of fans. Cora was great in 2018, but was embroiled in the Astros cheating scandal. It's a product that just doesn't have IT right now. Pedro/Manny/Papi/Pedroia/Mookie aren't walking through that door. This team just feels second rate, like a cheaper version of what it once was.

 

Maybe this can be fixed in the next few years with a youth movement of Casas/Duran/Houck/Whitlock/Yorke/Downs/Meyer/Jimenez/Bello/Song, but it's far from a guarantee. At least Casas talks the talk when hating on the Yanks. People have started to hype him due to the Olympics. Maybe that's the spark for next season? IDK.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ok..

 

I’m less critical because for much of his moves, his hands are tied financially…

 

I remain confused about that, because Bloom's front office publicly celebrated resetting its payroll below tax penalties.

 

I'm also trying not to be offended, a month after they mocked any fans who dared to question the roster construction.

 

I haven't seen any Red Sox tweets lately, at least since the trade deadline.

[notin]

OK but when you're Chaim Bloom, your forte is supposed to be finding the undervalued players.

 

I think he also got handcuffed by believing in spin rates without necessarily seeing if they were artificial.

 

But I do also think he brought in some undervalued players…

[mvp 78]

When you're the Red Sox, house money doesn't last long.

 

If the team ends up 85-77 and out of even a play-in game, the final verdict is 3 consecutive s***** seasons.

 

I feel like there are always a few missteps with ownership. There's been just some weird s*** that didn't feel right.

 

1. Dumping the entire 04 team. At least re-signing Pedro would have been good PR.

2. After tanking in 2011, JH called into WEEI to complain about the CC contract that had his signature on it. He "didn't like the deal" but still signed it and then is ripping him in public?

3. Kicking Tito on his way out the door by throwing out the pills and Hazel Mae stories.

4. Signing Panda and Hanley, which still doesn't feel like a Ben move.

5. f***ing around with homegrown Lester because he was over 30, but signing Price an offseason or two later.

6. All the leaks while trying to sign Mookie to spin public favor against the player.

 

I'd have much more confidence if ownership was just a silent partner and let Bloom do his thing.

[mvp 78]

I remain confused about that, because Bloom's front office publicly celebrated resetting its payroll below tax penalties.

 

I'm also trying not to be offended, a month after they mocked any fans who dared to question the roster construction.

 

I haven't seen any Red Sox tweets lately, at least since the trade deadline.

 

I need a refresher on the bold.

[mvp 78]

I think he also got handcuffed by believing in spin rates without necessarily seeing if they were artificial.

 

But I do also think he brought in some undervalued players…

 

Arroyo/Plawecki

 

Not sure who else was undervalued and then produced. For relievers, it's almost always a throw s*** at the wall and see what sticks.

[Bellhorn04]

I think he also got handcuffed by believing in spin rates without necessarily seeing if they were artificial.

 

But I do also think he brought in some undervalued players…

 

Sure he did.

 

Right now it feels like his acquisitions are quite a mixed bag, made up of tasty nuggets and nasty junk.

[Bellhorn04]

Arroyo/Plawecki

 

Not sure who else was undervalued and then produced. For relievers, it's almost always a throw s*** at the wall and see what sticks.

 

Pivetta, Whitlock, Kike, Renfroe...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I need a refresher on the bold.

 

From 7/2/2021 (as presented, including their bold-faced words)

 

@Red Sox: "Remember your tweets from the first week of the season? We do."

 

Fans reply, August 2021: "Remember your tweet in July -- the month of the trade deadline? We do, too."

 

ps: Bloom, in a radio interview yesterday, actually said: "Twitter is not the real world."

[notin]

Sure he did.

 

Right now it feels like his acquisitions are quite a mixed bag, made up of tasty nuggets and nasty junk.

 

That also happened in Tampa. We remember the successes, but the same evaluation techniques also lead to acquiring Jake Bauers, Adeiny Hechevarria and Lucas Duda, among others…

[mvp 78]

From 7/2/2021 (as presented, including their bold-faced words)

 

@Red Sox: "Remember your tweets from the first week of the season? We do."

 

Fans reply, August 2021: "Remember your tweet in July -- the month of the trade deadline? We do, too."

 

ps: Bloom, in a radio interview yesterday, actually said: "Twitter is not the real world."

 

This is good content.

[oldtimer]

This is good content.

 

Maybe Bloom should look at our recent results. They represent thee real world.

[Larry Cook]

I have faith in hang’em Chaim and his process.

 

I thought we arrived a year early and our lack of depth proved that correct.

 

This year is not over yet snd I think we can still get to at least 88 wins.

[Kimmi]

OK but when you're Chaim Bloom, your forte is supposed to be finding the undervalued players.

 

And that's the thing. When things were going well, there was a lot of praise for Bloom being able to find such players. Suddenly, all that praise seems to have disappeared.

 

Bloom has added a lot of nice undervalued pieces. Not all of them have worked out, but many of them have.

[Kimmi]

When you're the Red Sox, house money doesn't last long.

 

If the team ends up 85-77 and out of even a play-in game, the final verdict is 3 consecutive s***** seasons.

 

Thanks Dave!

 

Not that that is going to happen.

[Kimmi]

I am disappointed that so many have seemingly given up on this season based on recent events.

[moonslav59]

I am disappointed that so many have seemingly given up on this season based on recent events.

 

I'm disappointed, too, but far from surprised.

 

Even after winning 2 of 3, there is still much negativity.

 

This team has shown enormous grit on so many levels.

 

Before the season even started, they were written off.

 

After being swept by the O's in the opening series, just about everyone lost their slivers of hope.

 

30 some odd games, we were "down and out." Read the game threads of those games. Time after time, the same posters gave up and seemed shocked even by the 30th time!

 

Hey, I realize, they may end up being right, and we end up missing the playoffs, but this has been one hell of a team to watch and get excited about, even if just for the chance that we end up overachieving but missing the grand prize.

 

Not only was this season a great one, no matter how it ends, my hopes for 2022 and 2023 and beyond have grown enormously. I was thinking, with all the tough rules enacted against winning and high-spending teams, the cliff might last 3-5 years. It looks like it might have lasted one COVID-shortened season, at least in terms of really sucking badly.

 

[Kimmi]

I'm disappointed, too, but far from surprised.

 

Even after winning 2 of 3, there is still much negativity.

 

This team has shown enormous grit on so many levels.

 

Before the season even started, they were written off.

 

After being swept by the O's in the opening series, just about everyone lost their slivers of hope.

 

30 some odd games, we were "down and out." Read the game threads of those games. Time after time, the same posters gave up and seemed shocked even by the 30th time!

 

Hey, I realize, they may end up being right, and we end up missing the playoffs, but this has been one hell of a team to watch and get excited about, even if just for the chance that we end up overachieving but missing the grand prize.

 

Not only was this season a great one, no matter how it ends, my hopes for 2022 and 2023 and beyond have grown enormously. I was thinking, with all the tough rules enacted against winning and high-spending teams, the cliff might last 3-5 years. It looks like it might have lasted one COVID-shortened season, at least in terms of really sucking badly.

 

 

I have not had the heart to even read the game threads for a while, since before the trade deadline.

 

I understand why fans are feeling discouraged. It's been a terrible 3 weeks or so. Despite our putrid record since July 28, however, the Sox are still right in the thick of things. This team has shown their resiliency time and time again this season. Keep the faith.

[moonslav59]

I have not had the heart to even read the game threads for a while, since before the trade deadline.

 

I understand why fans are feeling discouraged. It's been a terrible 3 weeks or so. Despite our putrid record since July 28, however, the Sox are still right in the thick of things. This team has shown their resiliency time and time again this season. Keep the faith.

 

I've kept the faith, all long.

 

I'm no saint, though. I was one of the first to jump ship in 2019 and had zero faith in 2020's team.

[dgalehouse]

And that's the thing. When things were going well, there was a lot of praise for Bloom being able to find such players. Suddenly, all that praise seems to have disappeared.

 

Bloom has added a lot of nice undervalued pieces. Not all of them have worked out, but many of them have.

The bottom line is still winning. Bloom has got to win something to get recognition. So far in his career, he hasn't. We can make all the excuses we want, but he still needs to win it all at least once. Otherwise, all the other stuff doesn't much matter. Here's hoping he can do it.

[User Name]

So if you don't win a WS your greatness as an executive can't be recognized? Ok.

[Larry Cook]

The bottom line is still winning. Bloom has got to win something to get recognition. So far in his career, he hasn't. We can make all the excuses we want, but he still needs to win it all at least once. Otherwise, all the other stuff doesn't much matter. Here's hoping he can do it.

 

Didn’t our last three gm’s all win a World Series?

 

Hang’em Chaim has a really high bar to hit!

[oldtimer]

Didn’t our last three gm’s all win a World Series?

 

Hang’em Chaim has a really high bar to hit!

 

At least in Boston, he started with the mess DD left and is still trying to repair our minors and get rid of dead money contracts. In TB he had a very low budget team. While I was disappointed witth the trade deadline, it is still not clear if he could compete for people we needed.

[Nick]

Now that Sale and Schwarber are active, much of disappointment is dissipating. There just seems to be urgency now to this season. Schwarber's rehab game on Thursday was rained out. Sox just said hell with it and put him in the lineup on Friday. I like that.

 

Dalbec is heating up. Kike has been hot now 3/4 weeks? Renfroe is steady. Duran will help. Brasier should be back. Arroyo should be back. We're finally playing the hot catcher more. Verdugo needs to pick it up offensively. JD, Devers and Xander have been very solid overall.

 

Our rotation is shaping up and pitching better. Hopefully Richards and Perez can contribute in the pen.

 

It's definitely far from being over.

[Nick]

Years of Team control 2022 and beyond

 

Position Players

6 Duran

5 Xander (opt out after 22)

5 Dalbec

3 Verdugo

3 Arroyo

2 Devers

2 Renfroe

 

Starters

5 Houck

5 Whitlock

4 Sale

3 Pivetta

 

Bullpen

4 Taylor

4 Darwinzon

4 Valdez

3 Barnes

2 Brasier.

2 Sawamura

 

Not a bad list.....it'll be interesting to see who in on the 40 man roster this winter.

[Kimmi]

The bottom line is still winning. Bloom has got to win something to get recognition. So far in his career, he hasn't. We can make all the excuses we want, but he still needs to win it all at least once. Otherwise, all the other stuff doesn't much matter. Here's hoping he can do it.

 

When you say Bloom has to win something, do you mean a World Series? My feeling is that it's really not fair to judge a GM by whether he wins a WS because of the randomness of playoffs.

 

If you're talking about winning the division, I can get a little more on board with that opinion, though I'm not sure that's necessarily true either. If the team wins 100 games each season over the next 3 seasons and loses the division by 1 game, can we really fault Bloom?

 

Also, I think this year has been a success regardless of the final outcome.

[Kimmi]

Now that Sale and Schwarber are active, much of disappointment is dissipating. There just seems to be urgency now to this season. Schwarber's rehab game on Thursday was rained out. Sox just said hell with it and put him in the lineup on Friday. I like that.

 

Dalbec is heating up. Kike has been hot now 3/4 weeks? Renfroe is steady. Duran will help. Brasier should be back. Arroyo should be back. We're finally playing the hot catcher more. Verdugo needs to pick it up offensively. JD, Devers and Xander have been very solid overall.

 

Our rotation is shaping up and pitching better. Hopefully Richards and Perez can contribute in the pen.

 

It's definitely far from being over.

 

If Sale and Schwarber contribute like we hope they will, the trade deadline moves take on a whole new look.

[moonslav59]

If Sale and Schwarber contribute like we hope they will, the trade deadline moves take on a whole new look.

 

We all knew Sale, Arroyo and Houck were returning, but the urgency and impatience dominated many opinions on this board. Plus, watching nearly every other top contender add more than a Schwarber just added fuel to a fire already raging in many Sox fans' minds.

 

Bloom stood his ground. I don't think he lied or misled anyone by saying he was looking to make some serious additions. I think he set a cost of return and did not cross it, or he did not even have the right pieces for some of the better of the best that were traded.

 

I think adding Sale, Schwarber, Arroyo, Houck and others looks as good as just about anyone else's add ons.