Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[oldtimer]

We'll see.

 

If contract costs drop in the next few years, you'll be right, but many feel he took a COVID discount as it is.

I think the Sox avoided a costly mistake with the huge and lengthy Betts contract. The risk was very high and instead we got a very nice player in Verdugo and possibly two other ML quality prospects at far less money. Some of that saving can and will be applied to improved pitching. We also were able to offload some of the Price contract which was a foolish one when made.

 

I haven't heard anyone argue that Betts was not a star player now, who will hit well, make plays in the field and perhaps help the Dodgers win the WS this year. Will the Dodgers extend another $30 mil plus long term contract to Cory Seager this year and where does that put them with flexibility should either of these guys get injured?

 

Baseball front offices need to think hard about where the game is going.

[Bellhorn04]

That didn’t take long at all.

 

Yes Brian Jordan made the Pro Bowl his rookie year with the Falcons and played in the 1999 MLB All Star game as a Brave...

 

I guessed it was him because you mentioned him in a thread I started about superhuman athletes.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes. I never said it would not be a big risk.

 

I think he's worth it, but I can understand those who feel otherwise.

 

Personally I think he's worth it too, but I can understand why the Sox front office weren't willing to go that far.

[notin]

I guessed it was him because you mentioned him in a thread I started about superhuman athletes.

 

Well he did leave the Falcons’ secondary for MLB the same year Deion Sanders did, so I thought Deion was the more obvious (re: famous) candidate...

[moonslav59]

Personally I think he's worth it too, but I can understand why the Sox front office weren't willing to go that far.

 

Me, too. Think of what Bloom can get by splitting $365M up 10-30 times.

 

I still think it's a crying shame a big spending team like the Sox decided not to keep the best player they've had since maybe Teddy or the Babe.

[cp176]

Me, too. Think of what Bloom can get by splitting $365M up 10-30 times.

 

I still think it's a crying shame a big spending team like the Sox decided not to keep the best player they've had since maybe Teddy or the Babe.

 

Losing Mookie = crying shame yup

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Me, too. Think of what Bloom can get by splitting $365M up 10-30 times.

 

I still think it's a crying shame a big spending team like the Sox decided not to keep the best player they've had since maybe Teddy or the Babe.

 

Bloom can divide up and spend Mookie's money on 10 good but lesser players and win another World Series in Boston, and it still may not be as fun as watching a generational talent who can make game-saving catches on three straight playoff nights, crank three home runs in a game six times before he's in his prime, and score the game-winning run from first on a bouncer through the infield like Betts did in his final Red Sox game...

[notin]

Bloom can divide up and spend Mookie's money on 10 good but lesser players and win another World Series in Boston, and it still may not be as fun as watching a generational talent who can make game-saving catches on three straight playoff nights, crank three home runs in a game six times before he's in his prime, and score the game-winning run from first on a bouncer through the infield like Betts did in his final Red Sox game...

 

So basically... no matter if someone points out the cons of losing Betts or the pros of retaining him, you’ll be there to tell us why we’re wrong

[moonslav59]

So basically... no matter if someone points out the cons of losing Betts or the pros of retaining him, you’ll be there to tell us why we’re wrong

 

He did say "may not..."

[jad]

So basically... no matter if someone points out the cons of losing Betts or the pros of retaining him, you’ll be there to tell us why we’re wrong

 

No. He's telling you what he prefers as a fan. And a lot of us feel exactly the same way. We'd rather watch great individual athletes, stars, than pretend to be GM's or treat sports entertainment like fantasy sports. We also like to continue to follow athletes we've grown accustomed to--Boggaerts, Devers, Bradley, Betts, and yes Benintendi (if he can get it together again). Because we are fans. Not make-believe owners.

 

And there must be a lot of us: RS average attendance in 2019: 36,000. Rays average attendance in 2019: 14,000.

[Bellhorn04]

Me, too. Think of what Bloom can get by splitting $365M up 10-30 times.

 

I still think it's a crying shame a big spending team like the Sox decided not to keep the best player they've had since maybe Teddy or the Babe.

 

I think it's also a crying shame you can't keep said player for less than $400 million.

 

Only a handful of teams could even consider a contract that big.

[Bellhorn04]

No. He's telling you what he prefers as a fan. And a lot of us feel exactly the same way. We'd rather watch great individual athletes, stars, than pretend to be GM's or treat sports entertainment like fantasy sports. We also like to continue to follow athletes we've grown accustomed to--Boggaerts, Devers, Bradley, Betts, and yes Benintendi (if he can get it together again). Because we are fans. Not make-believe owners.

 

And there must be a lot of us: RS average attendance in 2019: 36,000. Rays average attendance in 2019: 14,000.

 

As great as Mookie is, though, I don't remember anyone saying the 2019 Red Sox were fun to watch because of him. Most people spent the year complaining about the disappointing record, and the poor pitching/Cora/RestGate.

[moonslav59]

I think it's also a crying shame you can't keep said player for less than $400 million.

 

Only a handful of teams could even consider a contract that big.

 

I get it. I'm not all torn up about the loss.

 

We gained Verdugo and a couple nice prospects and now have much more spending space over the next 12 years.

[moonslav59]

As great as Mookie is, though, I don't remember anyone saying the 2019 Red Sox were fun to watch because of him. Most people spent the year complaining about the disappointing record, and the poor pitching/Cora/RestGate.

 

Great point.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As great as Mookie is, though, I don't remember anyone saying the 2019 Red Sox were fun to watch because of him. Most people spent the year complaining about the disappointing record, and the poor pitching/Cora/RestGate.

 

I was only lurking/reading here during the '19 season, but I've since posted many times how much more fun it was for me personally as a fan watching the Red Sox with Mookie in the line-up. I'm not saying anyone else who cares about contracts and roster construction is wrong, just that I agree with Jad. I can also see Dan Shaughnessey's latest point, in the ways the Rays' blueprint for a title can be bad for baseball fans.

 

Bloom makes me uneasy, and I see him as a threat to longtime Sox fans, at least in the style we've always had of rooting for and following star players. I'm also suspicious of all the reasons the owners even hired him. Does anyone really think -- after 20 years and four titles -- that Boston's old owners are really going all in on a totally different approach to building a winner?

[moonslav59]

I was only lurking/reading here during the '19 season, but I've since posted many times how much more fun it was for me personally as a fan watching the Red Sox with Mookie in the line-up. I'm not saying anyone else who cares about contracts and roster construction is wrong, just that I agree with Jad. I can also see Dan Shaughnessey's latest point, in the ways the Rays' blueprint for a title can be bad for baseball fans.

 

Bloom makes me uneasy, and I see him as a threat to longtime Sox fans, at least in the style we've always had of rooting for and following star players. I'm also suspicious of all the reasons the owners even hired him. Does anyone really think -- after 20 years and four titles -- that Boston's old owners are really going all in on a totally different approach to building a winner?

 

I don't think we can know what Bloom will do based on his time at TB, where his budget was greatly restricted.

 

I think he will keep many of our fan favorite players, that he could not have done with the Rays.

 

Winning is fun to watch. To me, I'd be very happy watching the current Rays roster with Sox jerseys on, even if they were not in the WS.

[Bellhorn04]

I was only lurking/reading here during the '19 season, but I've since posted many times how much more fun it was for me personally as a fan watching the Red Sox with Mookie in the line-up. I'm not saying anyone else who cares about contracts and roster construction is wrong, just that I agree with Jad. I can also see Dan Shaughnessey's latest point, in the ways the Rays' blueprint for a title can be bad for baseball fans.

 

Bloom makes me uneasy, and I see him as a threat to longtime Sox fans, at least in the style we've always had of rooting for and following star players. I'm also suspicious of all the reasons the owners even hired him. Does anyone really think -- after 20 years and four titles -- that Boston's old owners are really going all in on a totally different approach to building a winner?

 

I read that piece by Shaughnessey. It was entertaining.

 

You'll notice that while bemoaning the Rays' style, he mostly praises the Dodgers.

 

Why do people miss the fact that Dodgers boss Friedman came from the Rays just like Bloom, and that with Bloom the Red Sox are much more likely to emulate the Dodgers than the Rays?

[notin]

I was only lurking/reading here during the '19 season, but I've since posted many times how much more fun it was for me personally as a fan watching the Red Sox with Mookie in the line-up. I'm not saying anyone else who cares about contracts and roster construction is wrong, just that I agree with Jad. I can also see Dan Shaughnessey's latest point, in the ways the Rays' blueprint for a title can be bad for baseball fans.

 

Bloom makes me uneasy, and I see him as a threat to longtime Sox fans, at least in the style we've always had of rooting for and following star players. I'm also suspicious of all the reasons the owners even hired him. Does anyone really think -- after 20 years and four titles -- that Boston's old owners are really going all in on a totally different approach to building a winner?

 

I don't think the ownership is as concerned with how he builds a winner as opposed to that he builds a winner. The Rays are 306-240 (.560) in the past 4 seasons while playing in the same division as two of the biggest annual spenders. Is emulating that approach really so threatening?

 

Rooting for star players is really something I only found exciting to do when the team is not winning and the season is providing nothing else in the way of excitement, and even then it's always rather anticlimactic. The 2014 and 2015 seasons were abysmal for Sox fans, and their mere mention always provokes someone to complain that Cherington "finished last 3 times in 4 seasons". I have never once read a single post that follows up with "but at least we got to watch Bogaerts, Betts and Pedroia."...

[jad]

As great as Mookie is, though, I don't remember anyone saying the 2019 Red Sox were fun to watch because of him. Most people spent the year complaining about the disappointing record, and the poor pitching/Cora/RestGate.

 

Most people ON THIS BOARD did that. Bec. on a sports board, we're all trying to appear cool, brilliant, witty, knowledgeable ... and ... We're not ordinary fans, nor are we necessarily the ones who 'put the pennies in the seats'. Imagine the vilification a poster would get for saying "Hot damn, I don't know nothing about baseball economics, or statistics, or trade values, but I just LOVE watching this team!" But I'm one of those, as are others. As are the 37K fans who showed up for RS games on a nightly basis.

[notin]

Most people ON THIS BOARD did that. Bec. on a sports board, we're all trying to appear cool, brilliant, witty, knowledgeable ... and ... We're not ordinary fans, nor are we necessarily the ones who 'put the pennies in the seats'. Imagine the vilification a poster would get for saying "Hot damn, I don't know nothing about baseball economics, or statistics, or trade values, but I just LOVE watching this team!" But I'm one of those, as are others. As are the 37K fans who showed up for RS games on a nightly basis.

 

That happens all the time out here.

 

The vilification for people who DO discuss baseball in terms of economics and advanced statistics and trade values is equally present....

[moonslav59]

I read that piece by Shaughnessey. It was entertaining.

 

You'll notice that while bemoaning the Rays' style, he mostly praises the Dodgers.

 

Why do people miss the fact that Dodgers boss Friedman came from the Rays just like Bloom, and that with Bloom the Red Sox are much more likely to emulate the Dodgers than the Rays?

 

You're on a roll.

 

I've agreed with everything you've said, today.

 

(Maybe I should get a COVID test... LOL! )

[dgalehouse]

There are different types of fans. Some just want results. Some care more for the process than the results. In the end , we all want a good , exciting team . We just differ on how best to achieve that.

[Bellhorn04]

Most people ON THIS BOARD did that. Bec. on a sports board, we're all trying to appear cool, brilliant, witty, knowledgeable ... and ... We're not ordinary fans, nor are we necessarily the ones who 'put the pennies in the seats'. Imagine the vilification a poster would get for saying "Hot damn, I don't know nothing about baseball economics, or statistics, or trade values, but I just LOVE watching this team!" But I'm one of those, as are others. As are the 37K fans who showed up for RS games on a nightly basis.

 

Sure, the fans still showed up at the games in 2019. But NESN viewership was down by about 20% from 2018.

[mvp 78]

Sure, the fans still showed up at the games in 2019. But NESN viewership was down by about 20% from 2018.

 

And declined another 58% in 2020.

[Bellhorn04]

And declined another 58% in 2020.

 

2020 was the perfect shitstorm.

[moonslav59]

2020 was the perfect shitstorm.

 

In some ways, 2019 was worse- due to higher expectations and so many injuries and unexpected declines..

[notin]

In some ways, 2019 was worse- due to higher expectations and so many injuries and unexpected declines..

 

The expectations in 2020 were pretty much in line with the results...

[mvp 78]

In some ways, 2019 was worse- due to higher expectations and so many injuries and unexpected declines..

 

IDK, The Sox fanbase is used to post WS let downs (2005, 2014). It wasn't that much of a shock that they fell back a bit. Chris Sale had already been a large injury concern by the time the WS was over. Which declines were unexpected?

[Bellhorn04]

IDK, The Sox fanbase is used to post WS let downs (2005, 2014). It wasn't that much of a shock that they fell back a bit. Chris Sale had already been a large injury concern by the time the WS was over. Which declines were unexpected?

 

Winnie's decline was unexpected. He was down from 108 to 84.

[mvp 78]

Winnie's decline was unexpected. He was down from 108 to 84.

 

Well, the problem is that some people are complaining about how much of a s*** show 2019 was, but we already knew that Winnie was a Pooh. Anything about him would literally be a s*** storm.