Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[moonslav59]

IDK, The Sox fanbase is used to post WS let downs (2005, 2014). It wasn't that much of a shock that they fell back a bit. Chris Sale had already been a large injury concern by the time the WS was over. Which declines were unexpected?

 

One could expect Betts would decline after such a great 2018 season, but he was still in the meat of his prime. Did anyone expect a decline from 10.4 fWAR to 6.6? JD's was more expected, but again, by this much? 5.9 to 3.2?

 

Beni was not expected to decline as he approached prime. He dropped from 4.4 to 2.0.

 

Sure, Bogey and Devers did better, but here are some more drops- expected or not:

 

Sale 6.2>3.6 (in almost as many IP)

Porcello 2.4> 1.8 (kind of expected)

Eovaldi 1.5 (in a partial season) > -0.3

Pearce 1.2 (just with the Sox) to falling off a cliff

[Northern Star]

Stop.

 

Hammer Time.

[cp176]

No. He's telling you what he prefers as a fan. And a lot of us feel exactly the same way. We'd rather watch great individual athletes, stars, than pretend to be GM's or treat sports entertainment like fantasy sports. We also like to continue to follow athletes we've grown accustomed to--Boggaerts, Devers, Bradley, Betts, and yes Benintendi (if he can get it together again). Because we are fans. Not make-believe owners.

 

And there must be a lot of us: RS average attendance in 2019: 36,000. Rays average attendance in 2019: 14,000.

 

Ok Jad - here we go - I absolutely agree with you.

[cp176]

There are different types of fans. Some just want results. Some care more for the process than the results. In the end , we all want a good , exciting team . We just differ on how best to achieve that.

 

I freely admit to be a process guy. I also believe that it is way too early to judge or make any assumptions with respect to bloom at this point. i would say though that personally I could never get on board with the Tampa Bay ways of winning. There is so much more to a complete baseball season and a real team than simply ultimate results. Winning continues to be good though.

[jad]

Sorry to interrupt your bean-counting, J.H., but how did Mookie do last night? ... Oh. Here's an article from ESPN. Maybe there's something in here.

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30157376/how-mookie-betts-changed-super-sabermetric-world-series-super-fun-series

[notin]

Sorry to interrupt your bean-counting, J.H., but how did Mookie do last night? ... Oh. Here's an article from ESPN. Maybe there's something in here.

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30157376/how-mookie-betts-changed-super-sabermetric-world-series-super-fun-series

 

Yeah Henry has been soooo cheap. I so get what it’s like to be a Twins’ fan when Pohlad owned the team...

[Maxbialystock]

I'm fine with letting Betts go even though he clearly is a big help to the Dodgers. He might just be a six tool player: he can hit, hit with power, field, throw, run, and play smart. Last night was some smart baserunning, but I really liked the way (in the NLCS) he converted a possible triple (a line drive into the right field corner) into a definite single by the way the played the carom.

[jad]

I'm fine with letting Betts go even though he clearly is a big help to the Dodgers. He might just be a six tool player: he can hit, hit with power, field, throw, run, and play smart. Last night was some smart baserunning, but I really liked the way (in the NLCS) he converted a possible triple (a line drive into the right field corner) into a definite single by the way the played the carom.

 

I agree entirely. A player like that is the main reason to watch professional sports. (But why then are you ok with giving him up?)

[Bellhorn04]

I agree entirely. A player like that is the main reason to watch professional sports. (But why then are you ok with giving him up?)

 

I'm guessing he has the same 400 million reasons as anyone else who says that.

[dgalehouse]

Don't worry about it. According to the pencil neck geek at Fangraphs , Mookie is only worth two more wins than Alex Verdugo. Verdugo is therefore a much better value for the money. Of course , the pencil neck geek would not dare say that at Clancy's Bar and Grill. There would be trouble.

[Bellhorn04]

Don't worry about it. According to the pencil neck geek at Fangraphs , Mookie is only worth two more wins than Alex Verdugo. Verdugo is therefore a much better value for the money. Of course , the pencil neck geek would not dare say that at Clancy's Bar and Grill. There would be trouble.

 

But some of the guys at Clancy's might say that $400 million is too much for any player.

 

I was actually in a bar in Boston at the end of July in 2005, and there was a lot of talk about Manny being traded at the deadline because he wasn't happy in Boston or was being a malcontent or whatever. And most of the people I talked to were saying they should get rid of him.

[dgalehouse]

But some of the guys at Clancy's might say that $400 million is too much for any player.

 

I was actually in a bar in Boston at the end of July in 2005, and there was a lot of talk about Manny being traded at the deadline because he wasn't happy in Boston or was being a malcontent or whatever. And most of the people I talked to were saying they should get rid of him.

 

Manny was a great hitter. But he could try your patience at times , to say the least.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But some of the guys at Clancy's might say that $400 million is too much for any player.

 

I was actually in a bar in Boston at the end of July in 2005, and there was a lot of talk about Manny being traded at the deadline because he wasn't happy in Boston or was being a malcontent or whatever. And most of the people I talked to were saying they should get rid of him.

 

Fans have been saying this since the beginning of time I'd guess... at least since the beginning of my time, I'm sure. The only things that change are the numbers and place values.

 

Commonfolk just can't handle the idea that some young athlete can make so much more money than the rest of us in our own crappy jobs (nothing personal to anyone; that includes whatever profession you're in that's doesn't entail getting paid for playing a kid's game). People get even more bitter when the lucky jock asks for/demands even higher wages than his own lucky peers.

 

There was never any doubt that Mookie Betts was going to get a contract at the top of his market that he has earned and deserves. Or that fans would complain about it, even as the market constantly re-establishes itself within the very industry they support.

[moonslav59]

I guess I'm uncommonfolk.

[moonslav59]

"Everything about the Dodgers is winning and that's in my DNA. It's why I chose to stay here." -Mookie

 

https://fansided.com/2020/10/19/mookie-betts-comments-about-dodgers-wont-make-red-sox-fans-happy/?a_aid=45978&fbclid=IwAR2jJkSNqnzPIDGplpTPjkdkN8oAPlU6m86SEDO77vkuQ6CfeTnTkFxibzU

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

"Everything about the Dodgers is winning and that's in my DNA. It's why I chose to stay here." -Mookie

 

https://fansided.com/2020/10/19/mookie-betts-comments-about-dodgers-wont-make-red-sox-fans-happy/?a_aid=45978&fbclid=IwAR2jJkSNqnzPIDGplpTPjkdkN8oAPlU6m86SEDO77vkuQ6CfeTnTkFxibzU

 

Before he got there, everything about the Dodgers was whining.

[cp176]

Manny was a great hitter. But he could try your patience at times , to say the least.

 

Outside of the fact that Manny as we all know was one of the all time great right handed hitters, the only place that I have heard any real praise for him with respect to anything else is by the few posters on this web site. Most die hard fans that I talked with had had it with his antics. Mookie Betts on the other hand could possibly have been the face of this franchise for many years. The kind of player certainly that we all would like our kid to grow up to be or in my case grandkid.

[notin]

"Everything about the Dodgers is winning and that's in my DNA. It's why I chose to stay here." -Mookie

 

https://fansided.com/2020/10/19/mookie-betts-comments-about-dodgers-wont-make-red-sox-fans-happy/?a_aid=45978&fbclid=IwAR2jJkSNqnzPIDGplpTPjkdkN8oAPlU6m86SEDO77vkuQ6CfeTnTkFxibzU

 

So the $365 million was not a factor?

[moonslav59]

Before he got there, everything about the Dodgers was whining.

 

They haven't won, yet.

 

I'm hoping even more, now, that they don't.

[Bellhorn04]

They haven't won, yet.

 

I'm hoping even more, now, that they don't.

 

I hear you.

[moonslav59]

So the $365 million was not a factor?

 

Apparently, $365M demonstrates they want to win.

[dgalehouse]

Apparently, $365M demonstrates they want to win.

 

Spending that kind of dough does show a commitment to winning . You can't dispute that.

[Larry Cook]

If hang’em Chaim is successful in building us back up the correct and sustainable way, we will all be saying “betts who?? “ in a couple years when the little guy Betts eventually breaks down and resembles Pedroia for the last half of his contract.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I hear you.

 

We also hear more music coming from LA. The first three batters in the lineup are classic rockers: Betts, Seager, Turner. That gives the Dodgers the Allman Brothers, Silver Bullet Band, and the Queen of Rock's estranged...

 

What does Tampa have besides a dance song voted the #1 Greatest One-Hit Wonder of All-Time: Arozarena!

[Bellhorn04]

We also hear more music coming from LA. The first three batters in the lineup are classic rockers: Betts, Seager, Turner. That gives the Dodgers the Allman Brothers, Silver Bullet Band, and the Queen of Rock's estranged...

 

What does Tampa have besides a dance song voted the #1 Greatest One-Hit Wonder of All-Time: Arozarena!

 

Good job. This also gives us a new category for the Fun With Baseball Names thread.

[Bellhorn04]

If hang’em Chaim is successful in building us back up the correct and sustainable way, we will all be saying “betts who?? “ in a couple years when the little guy Betts eventually breaks down and resembles Pedroia for the last half of his contract.

 

Way to keep it classy Larry!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If hang’em Chaim is successful in building us back up the correct and sustainable way, we will all be saying “betts who?? “ in a couple years when the little guy Betts eventually breaks down and resembles Pedroia for the last half of his contract.

 

I'll always be a Red Sox fan, but in less than 20 years Mookie's bronze plaque in Cooperstown will be bleeding Dodger blue.

[dgalehouse]

If hang’em Chaim is successful in building us back up the correct and sustainable way, we will all be saying “betts who?? “ in a couple years when the little guy Betts eventually breaks down and resembles Pedroia for the last half of his contract.

 

If " building up the correct way " means cutting costs and depending on the farm to re-stock your team every year , then it doesn't happen very often . Who has been successful and been able to " sustain it " for any length of time in MLB with that system?

[jad]

Whenever I hear the b.s. sports cliche "[doing things] the right way," I always think of the dumb-ass Cardinal organization and their equally arrogant and moronic fans. (I find it hard to believe there are RS fans hoping Mookie gets hurt as a way to vindicate their opinion that he should have been traded. But then ... sports fans.)

[jad]

Yeah, the RS commitment to winning is SO much stronger than the Dodgers'. (Who could ever forget the celebratory post by the ecstatic RS management the day they got under the luxury tax! Now THAT'S baseball!)