Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[Station 13]

They have good tv ratings though.

 

Seniors are the only ones to still watch TV.

[jad]

They have good tv ratings though.

 

Well, so far. But asking fans who have been following Mookie for years to switch their loyalties and cheer on a suspected rapist instead ... not sure that's going to work.

[Elktonnick]

They have good tv ratings though.

 

Depends what you call good. "Even with the large boost in ratings, the Rays still only had the 16th best ratings in the league." Tampa Bay Business Journal Oct 16, 2019

[sk7326]

What do you meany by 'his conduct has been awful'?

 

Area owner hires GM to build a winner and green lights numerous large contracts for said goal. Results in the best team of the century of MLB.

 

Area owner greenlights a VERY shaky extension to pitcher who has been hurt frequently. Extended pitcher gets hurt.

 

Area owner fires GM for doing exactly what he asked him to do - pivoting to reduce payroll because, reasons. (fortunately GM hired in stead looks pretty promising)

 

Area owner mandates trade of a Top 5 player in his prime as a vehicle to dump salary without getting All-Star level ceiling in return.

 

Area owner raises ticket prices - among the highest in the league already - while doing something the Pittsburgh Pirates would have blanched at.

[jacksonianmarch]

Context is needed for this trade. A straight up Betts and Price for Verdugo and Graterol deal is clearly not equal talent wise.

 

The Sox were hamstrung with their Lux tax situation. They have been limited to bargain basement additions to a team that won 84 games and was losing their most durable starter. The team, as is, isn’t winning anything in 2020. Could they have contended for a WC2? Maybe, but the reality is, the cliff has come and you’ve got two teams in division that are better.

 

Betts and Price constitute $58 mil on the 2020 Lux tax ledger. Therefore, their cost is prohibitive to filling out the roster. Price was on the docket for 3 years and has already shown a decline in durability and effectiveness. So, you package those two together with half of the money on Price’s contract ($48 mil or so) and you get an OFer who will be in Boston when the next rise occurs and a hot shot rookie pitcher who looks like the odds on favorite to be the closer long term.

 

The cost makes this deal a win for Boston in terms of value added to the team. The problem I have with this deal is two-fold.

 

It was made after season tickets went on sale and it really seems like this was orchestrated at a time where fans are gonna be pissed because they already spent money on a lost season.

 

The timing of this deal makes it so the Sox cannot use any of their tax savings to improve the roster. Graterol has a lot of talent, for sure, but most scouting reports and his injury history have him pegged as a closer. Dealing Price opens a hole in the rotation that, right now, is going to be filled by Brian Johnson. That’s essentially throwing the season from day 1.

 

Hence, I see this as being the first shot fired in a full on firesale, unless Bloom has a plan to add talent into the rotation. Maybe Bloom has Puig in his back pocket and he’s gonna deal Beni for a starter? Who knows

 

But dealing off Price and Betts and getting Verdugo and Graterol makes an area of concern worse in a division and really a league that is going to destroy average or bad teams. The Sox have turned a concern into a critical flaw. I’m wondering if Bloom is going to wait to sell anything not bolted down until in season. He might try to pump and dump Sale and Eo. Workman is likely moved. Barnes is likely moved. ERod May be moved. This could be the first shot fired in a full on dumpster fire season. And the draft benefit of tanking may not be there with the penalties looming.

[Jasonbay44]

By the way...Could the Sox brass have done a better job of burying this trade?

- night of State of the Union

- right in the middle of Impeachment

- right in the middle of the Iowa caucus mess

- in the dark of night

 

Don't seem too proud of their trade if you ask me

I honestly thought they would announce it during super bowl. I was fully expecting it to come out when Shakira and JLo were performing

[bkzwhitestrican]

Would be something if Bloom turns around now and makes a trade to bring in Arenado. It could be something similar to the Stanton trade, the Rockies would only eat like 10% of his contract but then wouldn't require much in return prospect-wise.

[Elktonnick]

Context is needed for this trade. A straight up Betts and Price for Verdugo and Graterol deal is clearly not equal talent wise.

 

The Sox were hamstrung with their Lux tax situation. They have been limited to bargain basement additions to a team that won 84 games and was losing their most durable starter. The team, as is, isn’t winning anything in 2020. Could they have contended for a WC2? Maybe, but the reality is, the cliff has come and you’ve got two teams in division that are better.

 

Betts and Price constitute $58 mil on the 2020 Lux tax ledger. Therefore, their cost is prohibitive to filling out the roster. Price was on the docket for 3 years and has already shown a decline in durability and effectiveness. So, you package those two together with half of the money on Price’s contract ($48 mil or so) and you get an OFer who will be in Boston when the next rise occurs and a hot shot rookie pitcher who looks like the odds on favorite to be the closer long term.

 

The cost makes this deal a win for Boston in terms of value added to the team. The problem I have with this deal is two-fold.

 

It was made after season tickets went on sale and it really seems like this was orchestrated at a time where fans are gonna be pissed because they already spent money on a lost season.

 

The timing of this deal makes it so the Sox cannot use any of their tax savings to improve the roster. Graterol has a lot of talent, for sure, but most scouting reports and his injury history have him pegged as a closer. Dealing Price opens a hole in the rotation that, right now, is going to be filled by Brian Johnson. That’s essentially throwing the season from day 1.

 

Hence, I see this as being the first shot fired in a full on firesale, unless Bloom has a plan to add talent into the rotation. Maybe Bloom has Puig in his back pocket and he’s gonna deal. Enjoy for a starter? Who knows

 

But dealing off Price and Betts and getting Verdugo and Graterol makes an area of concern worse in a division and really a league that is going to destroy average or bad teams. The Sox have turned a concern into a critical flaw. I’m wondering if Bloom is going to wait to sell anything not bolted down until in season. He might try to pump and dump Sale and Eo. Workman is likely moved. Barnes is likely moved. ERod May be moved. This could be the first shot fired in a full on dumpster fire season. And the draft benefit of tanking may not be there with the penalties looming.

 

Hey may be Blooming Onion can duplicate the Rays success at the gate in Boston.

[jacksonianmarch]

Arenado isn’t needed with Devers there. Also, anyone dealing for Arenado would have to eat the entire contract and offer major talent.

[moonslav59]

Context is needed for this trade. A straight up Betts and Price for Verdugo and Graterol deal is clearly not equal talent wise.

 

The Sox were hamstrung with their Lux tax situation. They have been limited to bargain basement additions to a team that won 84 games and was losing their most durable starter. The team, as is, isn’t winning anything in 2020. Could they have contended for a WC2? Maybe, but the reality is, the cliff has come and you’ve got two teams in division that are better.

 

Betts and Price constitute $58 mil on the 2020 Lux tax ledger. Therefore, their cost is prohibitive to filling out the roster. Price was on the docket for 3 years and has already shown a decline in durability and effectiveness. So, you package those two together with half of the money on Price’s contract ($48 mil or so) and you get an OFer who will be in Boston when the next rise occurs and a hot shot rookie pitcher who looks like the odds on favorite to be the closer long term.

 

The cost makes this deal a win for Boston in terms of value added to the team. The problem I have with this deal is two-fold.

 

It was made after season tickets went on sale and it really seems like this was orchestrated at a time where fans are gonna be pissed because they already spent money on a lost season.

 

The timing of this deal makes it so the Sox cannot use any of their tax savings to improve the roster. Graterol has a lot of talent, for sure, but most scouting reports and his injury history have him pegged as a closer. Dealing Price opens a hole in the rotation that, right now, is going to be filled by Brian Johnson. That’s essentially throwing the season from day 1.

 

Hence, I see this as being the first shot fired in a full on firesale, unless Bloom has a plan to add talent into the rotation. Maybe Bloom has Puig in his back pocket and he’s gonna deal Beni for a starter? Who knows

 

But dealing off Price and Betts and getting Verdugo and Graterol makes an area of concern worse in a division and really a league that is going to destroy average or bad teams. The Sox have turned a concern into a critical flaw. I’m wondering if Bloom is going to wait to sell anything not bolted down until in season. He might try to pump and dump Sale and Eo. Workman is likely moved. Barnes is likely moved. ERod May be moved. This could be the first shot fired in a full on dumpster fire season. And the draft benefit of tanking may not be there with the penalties looming.

 

I'd add that although the talent swap was far from even, the years of team control also add to side with the budget savings.

[Jasonbay44]

Arenado isn’t needed with Devers there. Also, anyone dealing for Arenado would have to eat the entire contract and offer major talent.

 

I mean theoretically they could move Devers to 1B and possibly DH when JD opts out, but I don’t see it happening. I don’t think Sox have the prospects to pull it off.

[Jasonbay44]

I think the important thing here is that John Henry saves money. That’s honestly all I care about

[sk7326]

I think the important thing here is that John Henry saves money. That’s honestly all I care about

 

I am glad. I was worried we'd have to have a telethon for him.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, Henry has never spent on the team.

[notin]

I think the important thing here is that John Henry saves money. That’s honestly all I care about

 

THe guy has spent a few billion on this team since he took over. Calling him cheap is a bit unfair and frankly, very incorrect....

[notin]

Yeah, Henry has never spent on the team.

 

Are Sox fans ready to compare him to Carl Pohlad now?

[Tedballgame]

Sox will be fine. Most, but not all, the Captain Negatives and General Doomsday here should just tune in to Felger and Mazz to commiserate together.

[notin]

Sox will be fine. Most, but not all, the Captain Negatives and General Doomsday here should just tune in to Felger and Mazz to commiserate together.

 

Or Gerry Callahan

[mvp 78]

Sox will be fine. Most, but not all, the Captain Negatives and General Doomsday here should just tune in to Felger and Mazz to commiserate together.

 

I didn't know that we couldn't wish to have Mookie for his whole career. I guess I get to root for Henry and his bank account now?

[notin]

I didn't know that we couldn't wish to have Mookie for his whole career. I guess I get to root for Henry and his bank account now?

 

If the Sox had Mookie for his whole career, they would not have been able to put a decent team around him for a few years, They just lack the dirt cheap contributing young players coming up thru the pipeline right now that make the larger contracts less burdensome.

 

This team would have turned into the Angels/Yankees of the 1980s with a bunch of heavily paid underperformers and no real bright spots coming up...

[Slasher9]

the Cliff is real

thankfully it will be a super quick rebuild as you only have to put your #50 jerseys in the drawer for 1 year.

[mvp 78]

If the Sox had Mookie for his whole career, they would not have been able to put a decent team around him for a few years, They just lack the dirt cheap contributing young players coming up thru the pipeline right now that make the larger contracts less burdensome.

 

This team would have turned into the Angels/Yankees of the 1980s with a bunch of heavily paid underperformers and no real bright spots coming up...

 

I disrespectfully disagree.

[jung]

If the Sox had Mookie for his whole career, they would not have been able to put a decent team around him for a few years, They just lack the dirt cheap contributing young players coming up thru the pipeline right now that make the larger contracts less burdensome.

 

This team would have turned into the Angels/Yankees of the 1980s with a bunch of heavily paid underperformers and no real bright spots coming up...

 

And there ya' go. That is it exactly. But they did not get a resolution to that problem in this trade either. THIS was a salary dump.

 

They still have nothing down on the farm. They have no good young players that they can bring up and be 2013's X or 2018's Rafi or even Beni for God sake or JBJ for God sake. THEY GOT NOTHING, no pitching, no everyday players down there. NO NOTHING and a boatload of money invested in questionable pitching assets at the MLB level. How do you build a winning team by either the 2013 or the 2018 formula without the means to bring up players that can play for the league minimum?

 

I still like the relief pitcher better than Verdugo. But so what. This is also my point about the chances of bringing Mookie back as a FA. How does the Sox position change between now and the beginning of the 2021 season? Are they suddenly going to have a farm system with a few players that can come up and fill out a MLB uni for the league minimum between now and the beginning of the 2021 season? Do they have guys they can bring up and fill in around Mookie and play for the league minimum?

 

Biggest bonehead move that painted them into this corner? IMO, The Sale deal and that deal starts this year for 5 years. They could have absorbed all the other crap deals including Price for what Price was giving them, even Eovaldi. But the Sale deal was the deal that buried them.

 

So IMO, Henry did the salary dump because he does not see a way to a Championship team given the circumstance he is in which he is largely responsible for. So its not a salary dump in the classic sense of "lets just get rid of this money". Its a salary dump in the sense of "what am I spending all this money for because I am not going anywhere anyway". I don't know what they are doing with Sale either except they are stuck with his contract now.

Edited February 5, 2020 by jung

[a700hitter]

the Cliff is real

thankfully it will be a super quick rebuild as you only have to put your #50 jerseys in the drawer for 1 year.

I don't see him coming back to the Red Sox, and I don't think bringing him back with a Trout/Harper contract is a good idea. I'd have rather have kept him for 2020 and made a run with the current crew. I think they would have had a shot if they came out strong in March/April.

[notin]

I disrespectfully disagree.

 

The Sox would have had about $140million tied up over the next 3 seasons in Betts, Bogaerts, Price, Sale, and Eovaldi. If they maintain the lofty $240mill payroll, unlikely as that is, that leaves $100million to spend on 35 other players, or $2.85 million per player. Safely assuming 14 of those players make the league minimum on the 40 man roster, accounting for $7.6 million, that leaves $92.6million for 21 other players, who now make $4.4mill each. And obviously, with Benintendi and ERod on the roster making higher than that, the Sox have less than $4.4mill per player to spend. Obviously, you can spend more per player for every additional minimum wager on the parent club, but a $4.4mill average means you get players like Eric Sogard and Travis Shaw.

 

Can you build a winning team all those Shaws and Sogards around the core?

[a700hitter]

Seniors are the only ones to still watch TV.

Seniors are into streaming content big time. They need to cut costs to support the millennials in their basements

[notin]

I don't see him coming back to the Red Sox, and I don't think bringing him back with a Trout/Harper contract is a good idea. I'd have rather have kept him for 2020 and made a run with the current crew. I think they would have had a shot if they came out strong in March/April.

 

The current crew includes a bullpen you did not like much at all last year, and even wanted Bloom to upgrade this year.

 

This isn't the 2018 team back together. That team had Kimbrel and Kelly in the bullpen, and had a rotation featuring Price and Sale at 2 years younger. And had Porcello eating innings and actually pitching pretty well. Hoping for a run at another title when the team won only 85 games last year seems like a bigger stretch to me...

[sk7326]

Yeah, Henry has never spent on the team.

 

Of course he has spent money. But right now, he traded a superstar in his prime for a steep discount for non-baseball reasons. And the move can, and should be criticized on that front. Similarly, the sudden whiplash need to cut payroll after greenlighting big money extensions just months earlier deserves criticism.

 

Mookie Betts was the team's best hope to replenish some of its high ceiling organizational depth, especially in pitching. This trade way did not do that. Considering the $$ they ask of fans - it's unseemly at best.

[a700hitter]

The current crew includes a bullpen you did not like much at all last year, and even wanted Bloom to upgrade this year.

 

This isn't the 2018 team back together. That team had Kimbrel and Kelly in the bullpen, and had a rotation featuring Price and Sale at 2 years younger. And had Porcello eating innings and actually pitching pretty well. Hoping for a run at another title when the team won only 85 games last year seems like a bigger stretch to me...

Some work around the edges would have been necessary, but the core team from 2018 is still there and in some ways it would have been better.

[jad]

I didn't know that we couldn't wish to have Mookie for his whole career. I guess I get to root for Henry and his bank account now?

 

The Sox would have had about $140million tied up over the next 3 seasons in Betts, Bogaerts, Price, Sale, and Eovaldi. If they maintain the lofty $240mill payroll, unlikely as that is, that leaves $100million to spend on 35 other players, or $2.85 million per player. Safely assuming 14 of those players make the league minimum on the 40 man roster, accounting for $7.6 million, that leaves $92.6million for 21 other players, who now make $4.4mill each. And obviously, with Benintendi and ERod on the roster making higher than that, the Sox have less than $4.4mill per player to spend. Obviously, you can spend more per player for every additional minimum wager on the parent club, but a $4.4mill average means you get players like Eric Sogard and Travis Shaw.

 

Can you build a winning team all those Shaws and Sogards around the core?

 

Can you build a better one around a suspected rapist with little MLB experience and a history of injury?