Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[Bellhorn04]

I think the Sox are still wondering about their risk exposure on Sale at this point.

 

Every big contract, especially for a pitcher, carries a lot of risk.

 

Being worried about Sale's health is only rational given his recent history.

[notin]

Yea I am inclined to think Mookie will go where he will be paid the most for the longest term and I am inclined to think that will not end up being us.

 

So how does that differ if we kept him?

[jung]

Yeah the point on the FO not having faith in Price's health entered my thoughts, too.

 

I am shocked if the reporting is accurate. The Sox paying more than half of the Price contract. I would have rather taken the risk that Price would perform and then trade him at the deadline if he didn't as opposed to sucking on more than half the value of his contract. What the hell is going on over there at Fenway.

[notin]

Where would you guys slot Graterol in our prospect rankings?

 

soxprospects.com:

 

1. Casas

 

2. Mata

 

3. Groome

 

4. Jimenez

 

5. Dalbec

 

6. Duran

 

Number one easily.

 

That Groome and his 66IP spread out over 4 years is number 3 on that list speaks volumes about everyone below him...

[Bellhorn04]

I am shocked if the reporting is accurate. The Sox paying more than half of the Price contract. I would have rather taken the risk that Price would perform and then trade him at the deadline if he didn't as opposed to sucking on more than half the value of his contract. What the hell is going on over there at Fenway.

 

Trading Price at the deadline would be no easy matter, he makes 32 mill in both 2021 and 2022.

[notin]

I am shocked if the reporting is accurate. The Sox paying more than half of the Price contract. I would have rather taken the risk that Price would perform and then trade him at the deadline if he didn't as opposed to sucking on more than half the value of his contract. What the hell is going on over there at Fenway.

 

If Price didn't perform, trading him at the deadline gets a lot more difficult unless you include even more money. The demand for $32mill/year pitchers who are not performing might not be do great...

[jung]

So how does that differ if we kept him?

 

You mean for 2020? One key element of the Sox Marketing effort is generating speculation about the potential greatness of a particular edition of the Sox. The other primary elements of their marketing are:

- Fenway Park itself

- their charitable activities in all their various forms

- NESN

- their minor league enterprises

 

Speculation over the potential greatness of the 2020 edition is very much in question at this point. We have no manager, no farm. No real 2nd basemen other than one that really can't field and one that really can't hit and we just lost the most dynamic player on the team by far. We just created a hole in the rotation and are left with Sale who we must protect, Eovaldi who we won't protect but can't get through a season, a guy we are hoping will be 2019 Porcello and Erod for whom we will be lighting candles all year long.

 

Again, the surprise to me is that the Sox Brass is confident that marketing Fenway, their charities, their minor league assets and NESN will carry them through 2020 and maybe beyond without really being able to generate speculation about the potential greatness of the 2020 edition. That is going to be a chore given what the 40 man looks like going into the season. Also surprised the Sox are paying so much of the Price contract.

[OH FOY]

Been reading Bloom wanted Graterol for a long time. This is totally his pick.

[jung]

If Price didn't perform, trading him at the deadline gets a lot more difficult unless you include even more money. The demand for $32mill/year pitchers who are not performing might not be do great...

 

Or even trading Price at the deadline if he did perform but the team isn't...also quite the possibility at this point.

[jung]

Every big contract, especially for a pitcher, carries a lot of risk.

 

Being worried about Sale's health is only rational given his recent history.

 

You still need pitchers to play this game. What do we really have past a Sale we must protect and ERod. This looks like a staff that can compete to you? Does not look like it to me.

[Slasher9]

for those interested...Mookie Betts red sox jerseys are 40% off on mlb.com

 

sidenote...glad i bought Manny a Xander jersey last year....

[notin]

You still need pitchers to play this game. What do we really have past a Sale we must protect and ERod. This looks like a staff that can compete to you? Does not look like it to me.

 

But if you feel Price was a gamble, does he make this a competitive staff?

 

We all know this is a pitchers' game, and we all grew up thinking it was a starting pitchers' game. But last eyar, the Rays made the playoffs with only 4 starting pitchers topping 100 IP and only 1 (Charlie Morton) topping 142 IP. They had one starting pitcher (Ryne Stanek) make 27 starts and still only pitch 55 IP.

 

It's possible we are looking at Bloom Ball here. Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi and Perez operating as tradtional starters and then an opener (Hernandez? Graterol? Workman? Barnes?) handling the top 3 to 6 hitters first time through the lineup. We might even see two openers as Perez seems to have had some durability questions last season and might operate as the 3-6 inning guy behind an opener...

[Bellhorn04]

You still need pitchers to play this game. What do we really have past a Sale we must protect and ERod. This looks like a staff that can compete to you? Does not look like it to me.

 

Pessimism at this stage is understandable. That sounds a lot like harmony, I know...

[Bellhorn04]

But if you feel Price was a gamble, does he make this a competitive staff?

 

We all know this is a pitchers' game, and we all grew up thinking it was a starting pitchers' game. But last eyar, the Rays made the playoffs with only 4 starting pitchers topping 100 IP and only 1 (Charlie Morton) topping 142 IP. They had one starting pitcher (Ryne Stanek) make 27 starts and still only pitch 55 IP.

 

It's possible we are looking at Bloom Ball here. Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi and Perez operating as tradtional starters and then an opener (Hernandez? Graterol? Workman? Barnes?) handling the top 3 to 6 hitters first time through the lineup. We might even see two openers as Perez seems to have had some durability questions last season and might operate as the 3-6 inning guy behind an opener...

 

Yeah, it's actually gonna be an interesting season, I think.

[jung]

But if you feel Price was a gamble, does he make this a competitive staff?

 

We all know this is a pitchers' game, and we all grew up thinking it was a starting pitchers' game. But last eyar, the Rays made the playoffs with only 4 starting pitchers topping 100 IP and only 1 (Charlie Morton) topping 142 IP. They had one starting pitcher (Ryne Stanek) make 27 starts and still only pitch 55 IP.

 

It's possible we are looking at Bloom Ball here. Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi and Perez operating as tradtional starters and then an opener (Hernandez? Graterol? Workman? Barnes?) handling the top 3 to 6 hitters first time through the lineup. We might even see two openers as Perez seems to have had some durability questions last season and might operate as the 3-6 inning guy behind an opener...

 

That would not surprise me either though I am not convinced we even have the staff for Bloom ball.

[jung]

Yeah, it's actually gonna be an interesting season, I think.

 

I have watched all but about maybe 20 innings of Sox Baseball the last 4 seasons either at the park or on TV. I know the game threads get awfully lonesome when the Sox are not truly competing. "Interesting" to most Red Sox fans with the exception of the die hards is competing. The die hards don't make a market. We just don't.

[jad]

https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/02/05/red-sox-trade-mookie-betts-dodgers

 

Agree totally with this writer, although we must understand by "fans," this writer means 'those who love watching baseball and want their team to win', not 'those who love competitive GM-ing and look at prof. sports as versions of their fantasy league'.

[notin]

That would not surprise me either though I am not convinced we even have the staff for Bloom ball.

 

I would say adding a potential elite reliever does change the bullpen equation.

 

If the Sox keep Sale, ERod, Eovaldi and Perez in the rotation as traditional starters and then they could use Barnes as an opener taking o the first 3-6 hitters of an opposing lineup. To me, Barnes is the obvious choice because he is effective on long ret and completely worthless on 0 days rest. That could leave the Sox with Graterol and Hernandez hadning 8-9th innings and Workman, Taylor, Walden, Brice, Hembree nd another (Weber? Brasier?Osich?) rounding out the bullpen. And the Sox now have some flexibility to add another reliever, where the options are better than the remaining starters on the free agent market. Collin McHugh and Arodys Vizcaino, for example, probably represent better upgrades than, say, Jeremy Hellickson or Jason Vargas or Taijuan Walker. Although Vizcaino in particular does represent a significant amount of risk.

 

They could make additional trades, but I don't know how many more tradable players they have that the Sox can deal away than anyone else really wants. The market for Jackie Bradley isn't all that much and has probably reached the point where Jackie is going to either start in CF or be cut in Spring Training. And given that the Sox have not gotten any additional outfield help beyond Verdugo, I'd say Bradley looks like he will be in Boston next season....

[Hitch]

I wouldn't be surprised to see him pick up one or two of the starting pitchers still available. There's not a whole lot out there, but he might take a stab on a few on low risk deals.

[Elktonnick]

https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/02/05/red-sox-trade-mookie-betts-dodgers

 

Agree totally with this writer, although we must understand by "fans," this writer means 'those who love watching baseball and want their team to win', not 'those who love competitive GM-ing and look at prof. sports as versions of their fantasy league'.

 

I also believe that Henry disrespected his fans by allowing this travesty. I said months ago that they depreciated Price's market. They basically gave him away which is fine but let's not delude ourselves. This was a salary dump pure and simple. They have raised the white flag on this season.

[notin]

Guessing the opening say roster is still premature, as Bloom has just started making moves.

 

But to date, it looks like

 

C: Vazquez, Plawecki

INF: Moreland, Chavis, Peraza, Lin, Bogaerts, Devers, Arauz

OF: Benintendi, Bradley, Verdugo

 

SP: Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Perez, Barnes (?)

BP: Graterol, Hernandez, Workman, Walden, Hembree, Brice, Taylor, Brasier, Weber

 

Pitching upgrades and depth are always needed. And I think an actual fourth outfielder would be a good idea.

 

Also, if the Sox like Arauz, make a deal with Houston to keep him and let him play in Pawtucket....

[notin]

I wouldn't be surprised to see him pick up one or two of the starting pitchers still available. There's not a whole lot out there, but he might take a stab on a few on low risk deals.

 

I'm surprised that has not happened yet. I know a lot of his pickups (Springs, Mazza, Hall, Osich) would certainly qualify as "low risk," but I think they also qualify as "low reward, if any."...

[Bellhorn04]

https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/02/05/red-sox-trade-mookie-betts-dodgers

 

Agree totally with this writer, although we must understand by "fans," this writer means 'those who love watching baseball and want their team to win', not 'those who love competitive GM-ing and look at prof. sports as versions of their fantasy league'.

 

Well, it's unfortunate but money rules the game now.

 

There wasn't quite so much complaining about it when the Sox had the highest payroll in the game the last 2 years...

[notin]

You mean for 2020? One key element of the Sox Marketing effort is generating speculation about the potential greatness of a particular edition of the Sox. The other primary elements of their marketing are:

- Fenway Park itself

- their charitable activities in all their various forms

- NESN

- their minor league enterprises

 

Speculation over the potential greatness of the 2020 edition is very much in question at this point. We have no manager, no farm. No real 2nd basemen other than one that really can't field and one that really can't hit and we just lost the most dynamic player on the team by far. We just created a hole in the rotation and are left with Sale who we must protect, Eovaldi who we won't protect but can't get through a season, a guy we are hoping will be 2019 Porcello and Erod for whom we will be lighting candles all year long.

 

Again, the surprise to me is that the Sox Brass is confident that marketing Fenway, their charities, their minor league assets and NESN will carry them through 2020 and maybe beyond without really being able to generate speculation about the potential greatness of the 2020 edition. That is going to be a chore given what the 40 man looks like going into the season. Also surprised the Sox are paying so much of the Price contract.

 

The point you made had nothing to do with Sox marketing. You said Mookie would, and I quote, "go where he will be paid the most for the longest term and I am inclined to think that will not end up being us."

 

If the Sox kept him, does any of that change? I would argue that, if anything, the Sox have better positioned themselves to pay him the most for the longest term. Clearly, no guarantee that they will do that. But their ability to do so today actually exists, whereas it did not two days ago...

[jung]

Guessing the opening say roster is still premature, as Bloom has just started making moves.

 

But to date, it looks like

 

C: Vazquez, Plawecki

INF: Moreland, Chavis, Peraza, Lin, Bogaerts, Devers, Arauz

OF: Benintendi, Bradley, Verdugo

 

SP: Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Perez, Barnes (?)

BP: Graterol, Hernandez, Workman, Walden, Hembree, Brice, Taylor, Brasier, Weber

 

Pitching upgrades and depth are always needed. And I think an actual fourth outfielder would be a good idea.

 

Also, if the Sox like Arauz, make a deal with Houston to keep him and let him play in Pawtucket....

 

And all of those moves still won't yield a team that would generate speculation about potential greatness in the 2020 edition. The Sox are now stuck in the middle. You can build a team like the 2013 Sox, a tough gritty veteran team with enough young talent for the vets to bring along and with a little luck you can really surprise some people including your own fan base. You can even overcome Bozo Farrell with a team like that.

 

Or

 

You could be a team with legitimate claim to potential greatness in a given year. This team will be neither and might be neither for more than 2020.

 

Heck at this point we don't really even know what the league is going to do with us. You have to wonder how much that is an issue for the Brass.

 

I do like the relief pitcher we got. Frankly, I like the relief pitcher more than I like Verdugo.

[Hitch]

I'm surprised that has not happened yet. I know a lot of his pickups (Springs, Mazza, Hall, Osich) would certainly qualify as "low risk," but I think they also qualify as "low reward, if any."...

 

Yeah, Taijuan Walker in particular seems a low risk, possible high(ish) reward.

 

That said, his velocity is down in the workouts for teams, apparently.

[moonslav59]

But if you feel Price was a gamble, does he make this a competitive staff?

 

We all know this is a pitchers' game, and we all grew up thinking it was a starting pitchers' game. But last eyar, the Rays made the playoffs with only 4 starting pitchers topping 100 IP and only 1 (Charlie Morton) topping 142 IP. They had one starting pitcher (Ryne Stanek) make 27 starts and still only pitch 55 IP.

 

It's possible we are looking at Bloom Ball here. Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi and Perez operating as tradtional starters and then an opener (Hernandez? Graterol? Workman? Barnes?) handling the top 3 to 6 hitters first time through the lineup. We might even see two openers as Perez seems to have had some durability questions last season and might operate as the 3-6 inning guy behind an opener...

 

With a 26 man roster, now, the need for a big innings guy as a 5th starter is not as great.

 

I don't think Bloom is done dealing. He has cap space now and may trade for a SP'er.

[TylerD]

He stays. Just pray for his health.

 

At this point, losing Porcello and Price.... Evo and Sale are question marks. This rotation and pitching staff might be under a severe rebuild.

[notin]

And all of those moves still won't yield a team that would generate speculation about potential greatness in the 2020 edition. The Sox are now stuck in the middle. You can build a team like the 2013 Sox, a tough gritty veteran team with enough young talent for the vets to bring along and with a little luck you can really surprise some people including your own fan base. You can even overcome Bozo Farrell with a team like that.

 

Or

 

You could be a team with legitimate claim to potential greatness in a given year. This team will be neither and might be neither for more than 2020.

 

Heck at this point we don't really even know what the league is going to do with us. You have to wonder how much that is an issue for the Brass.

 

I do like the relief pitcher we got. Frankly, I like the relief pitcher more than I like Verdugo.

 

As fans, we have the luxury of "worrying about 2021 in 2021 and not one second before." As GM, Bloom does not.

 

While he wants to make the 2020 team competitive, that simply cannot be the only goal he has. Barring unforeseen disasters, MLB will exist in 2021 and the Red Sox will be part of it, and simply hoping for a repeat of 2018 after the utter disaster of 2019 was always a bad idea. And a big part of that was the ramifications on 2021 and beyond.

 

No one wanted to see Mookie go, but it really was the smart move. While chances are certainly greater he never suits up for the Red Sox again, the fact remains that the chances he does actually exist now. They didn't last week.

 

Bloom did what needed to be done. He reset the payroll and got some younger, cheaper potential contributors the team sorely lacked. Now he has to finish this job and make this team competitive for 2020. That was always on the radar, but I think the long term picture was always just as if not more important...

[Elktonnick]

The point you made had nothing to do with Sox marketing. You said Mookie would, and I quote, "go where he will be paid the most for the longest term and I am inclined to think that will not end up being us."

 

If the Sox kept him, does any of that change? I would argue that, if anything, the Sox have better positioned themselves to pay him the most for the longest term. Clearly, no guarantee that they will do that. But their ability to do so today actually exists, whereas it did not two days ago...

Betts purported salary demands basically puts any team that would sign him in danger of exceeding the lux tax if they wish to have the supporting cast to field a competitive team. Sign him now or later it doesn't matter. At a likely 35+ million per year represents a nearly plus 15% of the salary cap invested in one player. Any team must realize that with Betts you will likely exceed the lux tax if you wish to be competetive.