A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

Right now, soxprospects.com lists Weber as the fifth starter with the caveat that he is an opener. Personally, I think he is a bad choice for not only an opener role, but also for the roster in general. But Bloom knows these guys better than me. Isn't the whole point of the opener that you enure one of your better - if not your best - relievers faces the top of the lineup where most teams use their better hitters, therefore increasing the chances you neutralize them at least once per game. You don't always get that kind of matchup with closers. But you do with openers. So why Weber, who to me has the ceiling of a mop up pitcher?

 

Last year the Rays used Ryne Stanek frequently as an opener (before trading him to Miami). Stanek is a fairly mediocre pitcher who somehow did well in that role.

[moonslav59]

Hopefully he will sign a pitcher or two to an MiLB deal.

 

I think a trade is more likely. He tried to acquire a SP (Graterol) is his most significant move, but when that did not work out, he opted for the best prospects he could get. So it is possible he plans to move ne of his prospects/younger players in a subsequent trade to get a SP. But even then, something does have to happen eventually.

 

Best trade pieces he has include:

 

Downs - who was Plan B after not getting a SP, so maybe the plan was to get someone who could be traded for one?

Dalbec - blocked at his best position for the near future and using him as a weak-side platoon would not be beneficial yo his development.

Chavis - has no real position, but is young and his bat can be worked into lineups easily.

Wong.- Same as Downs

Chatham - if not MLB-ready, would be soon. His defense is probably his calling card, which translates more easily to MLB than offense

Groome - assuming he has any appeal left, but he is also not a Blom guy

Duran/Gimenez - since all the younger Sox outfielders play the same position (CF) and don't have skillsets desirable in the corners for most teams, possible one of them could move.

 

Right now, soxprospects.com lists Weber as the fifth starter with the caveat that he is an opener. Personally, I think he is a bad choice for not only an opener role, but also for the roster in general. But Bloom knows these guys better than me. Isn't the whole point of the opener that you enure one of your better - if not your best - relievers faces the top of the lineup where most teams use their better hitters, therefore increasing the chances you neutralize them at least once per game. You don't always get that kind of matchup with closers. But you do with openers. So why Weber, who to me has the ceiling of a mop up pitcher?

 

I'd keep Jimenez.

 

I'd try to use a lefty as an opener, since our pen would then come in almost all as righties.

[moonslav59]

Thanks for all the thoughts.

 

[moonslav59]

Spring baseball is beginning, and our 2020 roster might be pretty much set. I like the Pillar signing and feel the Betts/Price trade was essential and likely the best we could do, under the circumstances. All that has been debated and argued over for days, and will likely be debated for months and years to come.

 

Here's a look at how I see the 26 man roster shaping up, as well as who might be contributing something meaningful in 2020.

 

C- Vazquez & Plawecki (Centeno & Bandy)

1B- Moreland (Chavis, Dalbec & Ockimey)

2B- Peraza & Chavis (Lin, Arauz, Marco & Chatham)

3B- Devers & Arauz (Dalbec, Chavis & Marco)

SS- Bogaerts & Lin (Arauz, Marco & Chatham)

LF- Benintendi (Pillar, Puello & JD)

CF- Bradley & Puello (Pillar & Castillo/Duran)

RF- Verdugo & Pillar (Puello, JD & Castillo/Duran)

 

SP- Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Perez

(Velazquez, Weber, Johnson, Houck, Hart, McGrath, Mata, Ward, Reyes)

 

RP- Workman, Barnes, Taylor, Walden, Hernandez, Brasier, Hembree, Brice

(Brewer, Osich, Mazza, Shawaryn, Springs, Hall, Poyner, Feltman)

 

To me, the weakest slots are:

 

SP5

RP

2B

RP

1B

SP6

OF

 

[Behindenemylines]

Of course not, and my point isn't about not signing several SP'er to minor league deals. I think we should sign more than we have been, recently. I'm just pointing out the fact that they rarely work.

 

What works best is when you improve your rotation from the top not the bottom.

 

We had Pedro and got Schill: RING!

 

We had Schill and got Beckett: RING!

 

We had Lester and got Lackey: RING!

 

We had Price and got Sale: RING!

 

We sign scrubs like Masterson and Penny: No Rings!

 

Pitching wins championships! Sale - ERod - Eovaldi make a good postseason rotation, but you have to get there first. They can’t stay healthy. The even bigger question about Red Sox starting pitcher is why can’t we draft and produce a homegrown SP?

[oldtimer]

Spring baseball is beginning, and our 2020 roster might be pretty much set. I like the Pillar signing and feel the Betts/Price trade was essential and likely the best we could do, under the circumstances. All that has been debated and argued over for days, and will likely be debated for months and years to come.

 

Here's a look at how I see the 26 man roster shaping up, as well as who might be contributing something meaningful in 2020.

 

C- Vazquez & Plawecki (Centeno & Bandy)

1B- Moreland (Chavis, Dalbec & Ockimey)

2B- Peraza & Chavis (Lin, Arauz, Marco & Chatham)

3B- Devers & Arauz (Dalbec, Chavis & Marco)

SS- Bogaerts & Lin (Arauz, Marco & Chatham)

LF- Benintendi (Pillar, Puello & JD)

CF- Bradley & Puello (Pillar & Castillo/Duran)

RF- Verdugo & Pillar (Puello, JD & Castillo/Duran)

 

SP- Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Perez

(Velazquez, Weber, Johnson, Houck, Hart, McGrath, Mata, Ward, Reyes)

 

RP- Workman, Barnes, Taylor, Walden, Hernandez, Brasier, Hembree, Brice

(Brewer, Osich, Mazza, Shawaryn, Springs, Hall, Poyner, Feltman)

 

To me, the weakest slots are:

 

SP5

RP

2B

RP

1B

SP6

OF

 

 

Now that you are back, I want to express my condolences on the lossws of your frien and also my surprise at your quick return.

 

It sounds like Verdugo willl not get a rigorous ST due to the stress fracture in his lower back. It happened last May and he tried to play through it. One question is if it happened last May, why hasn't it fully healed in the off season? Are we talking a moderate to long term DL stint to start his Boston career? Did we do our diligence on this trade?

[notin]

Pitching wins championships! Sale - ERod - Eovaldi make a good postseason rotation, but you have to get there first. They can’t stay healthy. The even bigger question about Red Sox starting pitcher is why can’t we draft and produce a homegrown SP?

 

The Sox can and do draft starting pitchers. What they need to do is stop trading them away...

[mvp 78]

The Sox can and do draft starting pitchers. What they need to do is stop trading them away...

 

Which ones did they trade away that are coming back to haunt us?

[notin]

Which ones did they trade away that are coming back to haunt us?

 

Michael Kopech, Logan Allen, Jalen Beeks, Ty Buttrey

[Slasher9]

Guys, I don't like to bring my personal life into this site, but I just got some devastating news. My best and dearest friend from Maine died yesterday. He was hit by a train while walking on the tracks with earbuds on. I'm crushed.

 

I may not be here for a while. I'd be grateful to all who could say a prayer for his long time girlfriend and siblings. He was 62. Biggest heart you could ever imagine.

 

sorry to hear about this Moon. thoughts to the family.

[illinoisredsox]

Spring baseball is beginning, and our 2020 roster might be pretty much set. I like the Pillar signing and feel the Betts/Price trade was essential and likely the best we could do, under the circumstances. All that has been debated and argued over for days, and will likely be debated for months and years to come.

 

Here's a look at how I see the 26 man roster shaping up, as well as who might be contributing something meaningful in 2020.

 

C- Vazquez & Plawecki (Centeno & Bandy)

1B- Moreland (Chavis, Dalbec & Ockimey)

2B- Peraza & Chavis (Lin, Arauz, Marco & Chatham)

3B- Devers & Arauz (Dalbec, Chavis & Marco)

SS- Bogaerts & Lin (Arauz, Marco & Chatham)

LF- Benintendi (Pillar, Puello & JD)

CF- Bradley & Puello (Pillar & Castillo/Duran)

RF- Verdugo & Pillar (Puello, JD & Castillo/Duran)

 

SP- Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Perez

(Velazquez, Weber, Johnson, Houck, Hart, McGrath, Mata, Ward, Reyes)

 

RP- Workman, Barnes, Taylor, Walden, Hernandez, Brasier, Hembree, Brice

(Brewer, Osich, Mazza, Shawaryn, Springs, Hall, Poyner, Feltman)

 

To me, the weakest slots are:

 

SP5

RP

2B

RP

1B

SP6

OF

 

 

No DH (JD)?

[Bellhorn04]

No DH (JD)?

 

Looks like he Magoo'd the DH slot.

[Bellhorn04]

Which ones did they trade away that are coming back to haunt us?

 

notin is sort of assuming that Kopech and Allen will?

[notin]

notin is sort of assuming that Kopech and Allen will?

 

And Ryan Weber might be positioned to back me up here...

[Slasher9]

notin is sort of assuming that Kopech and Allen will?

 

also.....when you "give away" prospects in a deal that you could have made with far less (see: kimbrel, pom) those players that were given away willy nilly could have been used to get the other players (see: Sale). perhaps we could have moncada as our cost controlled starting 2bman and a young stud pitcher making his way back from TJS (espy)....

[mvp 78]

Michael Kopech, Logan Allen, Jalen Beeks, Ty Buttrey

 

Beeks is barely a starter. Buttrey is not a starter. Logan Allen was god awful at all levels last year. Kopech was traded away for Chris Sale.

[mvp 78]

notin is sort of assuming that Kopech and Allen will?

 

A big assumption on behalf of Allen.

[notin]

Beeks is barely a starter. Buttrey is not a starter. Logan Allen was god awful at all levels last year. Kopech was traded away for Chris Sale.

 

So therefore the Sox have never drafted any starters that made the majors?

[Bellhorn04]

Beeks is barely a starter. Buttrey is not a starter. Logan Allen was god awful at all levels last year. Kopech was traded away for Chris Sale.

 

Ryan Weber has a better career FIP than Beeks.

[mvp 78]

So therefore the Sox have never drafted any starters that made the majors?

 

I wouldn't say that.

[notin]

I wouldn't say that.

 

You wouldn’t?

 

Then why are you countering me on this? That was exactly the point I was responding to..

[mvp 78]

My only point is that the concern of them "trading everyone away" falls flat when only one of the guys they traded away has a good chance of being a future All Star. Allen and Beeks are nobodies. If Logan Allen was slotted in as 5th starter, would it even improve this team? Would an upgrade to Beeks even make a blip on the radar?

[notin]

Ryan Weber has a better career FIP than Beeks.

 

Great. Because Weber is the Sox fifth starter right now...

[mvp 78]

You wouldn’t?

 

Then why are you countering me on this? That was exactly the point I was responding to..

 

I don't believe the original poster was stating that they have NEVER been able to draft a starter, just that the starters they have drafted have been few and far between. Honestly, we can all see that they mightily struggle with developing starters and trading a few starters away hasn't hurt this current version of the Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

Great. Because Weber is the Sox fifth starter right now...

 

The point is that Beeks isn't very good himself and not a good example of DD giving away starting pitching.

[notin]

My only point is that the concern of them "trading everyone away" falls flat when only one of the guys they traded away has a good chance of being a future All Star. Allen and Beeks are nobodies. If Logan Allen was slotted in as 5th starter, would it even improve this team? Would an upgrade to Beeks even make a blip on the radar?

 

No one used the term All Star. Usually the point is “none of them would have made the Red Sox.” Which is stupid, because 1) only Manny Margot is 25. And 2) that means fans think we have 5 starters better than Kopech and also believe this is still true even if we never acquired Sale. Someone name me those five starters...

[mvp 78]

The point is that Beeks isn't very good himself and not a good example of DD giving away starting pitching.

 

The only good pitcher they gave away was Kopech and he had TJS last year. His loss was offset with CHRIS SALE.

[mvp 78]

No one used the term All Star. Usually the point is “none of them would have made the Red Sox.” Which is stupid, because 1) only Manny Margot is 25. And 2) that means fans think we have 5 starters better than Kopech and also believe this is still true even if we never acquired Sale. Someone name me those five starters...

 

I used the term All Star. I don't see where the other poster said "none of them would have made the Sox." All I'm doing is refuting the post I'm responding to.

[Nick]

Beeks is barely a starter. Buttrey is not a starter. Logan Allen was god awful at all levels last year. Kopech was traded away for Chris Sale.

 

Thank you....my exact point.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Question for Red Sox fans. Let's say Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, totally healthy, arm looks great, velocity way up, striking people out, and is on pace to have one of his best seasons in 2020.

 

Do you trade Sale at the deadline for a motherload of prospects? If Chris Sale is Chris Sale again, teams will be lining up to trade for him, since a dominant Sale can be the difference between winning and losing in the postseason. Or would you hold on to Sale with the goal of competing over the next few seasons?