A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[mvp 78]

For those who would have left Pedro in, let's say he did get Posada out on that pitch. He's at 123 pitches with still 4 more outs to get, and the next hitter was Giambi, who has homered twice in the game. Would you leave Pedro in to face Giambi?

 

This question is just for Moon and Grady Little, right? No one else would have left him in.

[Tedballgame]

This question is just for Moon and Grady Little, right? No one else would have left him in.

I was screaming at the TV for him to take him out. That was not 1999 Pedro.

[Tedballgame]

Luckily, 2004, 2007, 2013 and 2018 have soothed all those old wounds. All is good in Sox Nation.

[jad]

Luckily, 2004, 2007, 2013 and 2018 have soothed all those old wounds. All is good in Sox Nation.

 

Ha ha! Not for me!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I was screaming at the TV for him to take him out. That was not 1999 Pedro.

 

I didn't scream, but my words were foreboding when they came back from commercials to start the bottom of the 8th. "He's not even supposed to be out there," I scolded the TV.

 

Pedro had pitched gallantly, but was mentally done after whiffing Soriano to end the 7th. We knew this because he tapped his heart and pointed to the heavens as he walked off the mound -- just like he always did when his day was effectively done.

 

Yes, Pedro threw the pitches that doomed '03 in the next inning, but he'll never be blamed for the manager changing the game plan. Even the average fan who never played hardball past Little League can sense how utterly arduous it is for an athlete to shut it down and then abruptly have to somehow turn it back on again, especially in an exhaustive winner-take-all showdown behind enemy lines...

[jad]

I didn't scream, but my words were foreboding when they came back from commercials to start the bottom of the 8th. "He's not even supposed to be out there," I scolded the TV.

 

Pedro had pitched gallantly, but was mentally done after whiffing Soriano to end the 7th. We knew this because he tapped his heart and pointed to the heavens as he walked off the mound -- just like he always did when his day was effectively done.

 

Yes, Pedro threw the pitches that doomed '03 in the next inning, but he'll never be blamed for the manager changing the game plan. Even the average fan who never played hardball past Little League can sense how utterly arduous it is for an athlete to shut it down and then abruptly have to somehow turn it back on again, especially in an exhaustive winner-take-all showdown behind enemy lines...

 

I think the fact that we are still arguing about this proves absolutely that we have NEVER gotten over it, despite four WS wins!

[mvp 78]

I was screaming at the TV for him to take him out. That was not 1999 Pedro.

 

Everyone I was at the bar with was saying he should have been taken out. I don't know anyone who wanted to keep him in. It was baffling.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the fact that we are still arguing about this proves absolutely that we have NEVER gotten over it, despite four WS wins!

 

The four WS wins have taken the sting out for me. I just find it's impossible to resist revisiting those occasions. You certainly don't forget them or how tragic they seemed at the time.

 

The 1978 playoff game was the worst for me. I was crushed.

[cp176]

Everyone I was at the bar with was saying he should have been taken out. I don't know anyone who wanted to keep him in. It was baffling.

 

if Pedro Martinez had looked me in the eye and said I got this guy - just one more, only a complete idiot would have taken him out of the game. Hind sight really sucks doesn't it. Pedro was good enough. Everybody at a bar likely would have taken him out, especially right after so to speak.

[moonslav59]

For those who would have left Pedro in, let's say he did get Posada out on that pitch. He's at 123 pitches with still 4 more outs to get, and the next hitter was Giambi, who has homered twice in the game. Would you leave Pedro in to face Giambi?

 

Probably not.

[cp176]

Kill me with hind sight.

[mvp 78]

if Pedro Martinez had looked me in the eye and said I got this guy - just one more, only a complete idiot would have taken him out of the game. Hind sight really sucks doesn't it. Pedro was good enough. Everybody at a bar likely would have taken him out, especially right after so to speak.

 

Not hindsight. Even the announcers on tv questioned it. He was done. Everyone saw him do his postgame routine. He didn’t think he was coming back out.

[cp176]

Not hindsight. Even the announcers on tv questioned it. He was done. Everyone saw him do his postgame routine. He didn’t think he was coming back out.

 

I know. I agree. But I can't remember the last bar I was in that rational decisions were being made!

[notin]

Everyone I was at the bar with was saying he should have been taken out. I don't know anyone who wanted to keep him in. It was baffling.

 

We all wanted him taken out.

 

This is despite 1) how horrific the Sox bullpen was all year long, and a recent hot streak in the post-season by a couple pitchers didn't change this and 2) no one knew anything about how the Sox relievers were actually doing that day. Grady Little did know this, however.

 

Sometimes, when these incredibly obvious decisions don't go the way people think they should, there is a very good reason. As Pete Carroll would attest...

[Bellhorn04]

We all wanted him taken out.

 

This is despite 1) how horrific the Sox bullpen was all year long, and a recent hot streak in the post-season by a couple pitchers didn't change this and 2) no one knew anything about how the Sox relievers were actually doing that day. Grady Little did know this, however.

 

Sometimes, when these incredibly obvious decisions don't go the way people think they should, there is a very good reason. As Pete Carroll would attest...

 

Grady was going to have to use the bullpen in that game eventually. I don't think even Grady planned to have Pedro throw 155 pitches like Luis Tiant did in Game of the 1975 WS.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Bellhorn04

[jad]

We all wanted him taken out.

 

This is despite 1) how horrific the Sox bullpen was all year long, and a recent hot streak in the post-season by a couple pitchers didn't change this and 2) no one knew anything about how the Sox relievers were actually doing that day. Grady Little did know this, however.

 

Sometimes, when these incredibly obvious decisions don't go the way people think they should, there is a very good reason. As Pete Carroll would attest...

 

You are thinking, of course, of choosing to run Lendale White over right tackle on 4th down, while Heisman-winning Reggie Bush watched from he bench.

[moonslav59]

Assuming we make no major moves, what's the 2020 over under on Sox wins? 82?

[Bellhorn04]

Assuming we make no major moves, what's the 2020 over under on Sox wins? 82?

 

Might as well make it an even .500 - 81.

[notin]

You are thinking, of course, of choosing to run Lendale White over right tackle on 4th down, while Heisman-winning Reggie Bush watched from he bench.

 

Ummm... not my first choice. I thought something else might immediately leap into the minds of the Patriots’ fans on this board. One little super moment...

[moonslav59]

Might as well make it an even .500 - 81.

 

No ties: 81.5.

[jacksonianmarch]

Too many variables to make a real prediction. A fully healthy Sox team crushes that. An injured team in a rapidly improving AL likely gets crushed by that number. I’m gonna take the over, but not by much

[vegasbob]

The four WS wins have taken the sting out for me. I just find it's impossible to resist revisiting those occasions. You certainly don't forget them or how tragic they seemed at the time.

 

The 1978 playoff game was the worst for me. I was crushed.

 

I fully echo your sentiments. The 1978 game was an all time low point for many reasons Dent getting busted on the foot, only to follow with an over the wall ball. Yaz not hitting Gossage to pull the game out of the muck. It was a bad day at Black Rock to say the least.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I can't rate the Sox yet, at least before Spring Training. While many other teams have made many offseason moves, it's hard to make predictions about Boston's 2020 when we know this current roster has to change. If they were going to stand pat, they wouldn't have changed Chief Baseball Officers... would they?

 

It may be easier to set the Yankees over-under at 103 (their amount of wins from 2019); I'll take the under on that. And for that matter, if we set Tampa's over-under at their last year's total of 96, I'll take the under on them, too. I think Toronto will begin to rise, especially if Ryu is this year's Charlie Morton. Overall, more parity is coming to the AL -- with less tankers in '20. If you want to say that's more competitiveness, so be it.

 

Houston 107; under. Minnesota 101; under. Cleveland 93; under. The lone playoff team that looks like it is still improving is Oakland at 97; over.. but only by a couple wins, depending on how much better LA and Texas get.

[vegasbob]

Wins for 2020 are at 86 for reasons to be revealed over the next several months. The roster on March 30 will be a little different than todays in 3 key spots. Details as soon as Bloom returns my call.

[jad]

Ummm... not my first choice. I thought something else might immediately leap into the minds of the Patriots’ fans on this board. One little super moment...

 

I spent many decades working for USC. And since the Pats didn't exist when I was a kid growing up in Maine, I have never really rooted for them.

[mvp 78]

You are thinking, of course, of choosing to run Lendale White over right tackle on 4th down, while Heisman-winning Reggie Bush watched from he bench.

 

Quiet you.

 

White was a great college RB. He just didn’t get it done there.

[mvp 78]

They should have just done the Bush Push play again tho.

[jacksonianmarch]

The most important question entering 2020 is:

 

Is this team a title contender?

 

If the answer is no, then the next question is:

 

Are the Sox doing everything in their power to prepare their team to return to title contention?

 

Answering yes to one of these questions is enough for a fan to get behind. Two “no”s and you have a problem

[OH FOY]

Remember Reggie Jackson's HR was the difference in 78. We also forget Munson's Double off Stanley to score Rivers too, to make it 4-2.

Stanley killed us.

Remember final score was 5-4. If Dent's HR was the only thing we gave up, we would have won.

Edited December 28, 2019 by OH FOY!

[Elktonnick]

The most important question entering 2020 is:

 

Is this team a title contender?

 

If the answer is no, then the next question is:

 

Are the Sox doing everything in their power to prepare their team to return to title contention?

 

Answering yes to one of these questions is enough for a fan to get behind. Two “no”s and you have a problem

 

Two fair questions. However, in Boston's case a fair answer to both would be we have seen nothing to be able to say yes or no to either.