Sale, Price, Porcello---pART tWO

[moonslav59]

Since 2003, our highest ranked pitchers on soxprospects.com have been:

 

Jorge de la Rosa 3

Jon Lester 1

Manny Delcarmen 8

Abe Alavarez 3

Jonathan Papelbon 1

Clay Buchholz 1

Michael Bowden 3

Justin Masterson 1

Daniel Bard 3

Casey Kelly 1

Felix Doubront 3

Anthony Ranaudo 2

Allen Webster 3 (via trade)

Ruby de la Rosa 5 (via trade)

Matt Barnes 2

Henry Owens 2

ERod 1 (via trade)

Brian Johnson 5

Anderson Espinoza 3

Michael Kopech 5

Jay Groome 1

Tanner Houck 4

Bryan Mata 2

Jalen Beeks 5

Mike Shawaryn 5

D Hernandez 2

 

 

 

[Maxbialystock]

A recent article on the downfall of Tanaka says the new smoother seams on baseballs have affected his splitter.

 

This current Sox team has easily the worst ERA in the John Henry era, 4.82. Last year with basically the same pitching staff the team ERA was 3.75. For those pining for Kimbrel, his ERA this year is 5.68. Kelly's is 4.97.

 

I am exonerating no one, but would say that some pitchers have clearly adjusted to the new ball better than others. I think it is also reasonable to assume that the Sox pitching coach hasn't helped much.

 

Sox lineup meanwhile is scoring even more runs than last year when they led MLB in scoring.

[kenmeister]

A recent article on the downfall of Tanaka says the new smoother seams on baseballs have affected his splitter.

 

This current Sox team has easily the worst ERA in the John Henry era, 4.82. Last year with basically the same pitching staff the team ERA was 3.75. For those pining for Kimbrel, his ERA this year is 5.68. Kelly's is 4.97.

 

I am exonerating no one, but would say that some pitchers have clearly adjusted to the new ball better than others. I think it is also reasonable to assume that the Sox pitching coach hasn't helped much.

 

Sox lineup meanwhile is scoring even more runs than last year when they led MLB in scoring.

 

Why oh why did they have to change the ball? Why won't they own up to it? If the game becomes just about power pitchers because other pitches don't "work", baseball will be boring. Splits and curves and knucklers are the best pitches in my book.

[TylerD]

At least Porcello turned things around his last start. Actually his last 2 out of 3 starts have been good. He went 6 innings and gave up 3 runs against the Yankees and then went 6 innings and gave up 1 run against the Royals. You can tell Porcello is a work horse and frustrated with himself. He is working his ass off to try and turn this season around. Price doesn't seem to give a s***. Honestly, I just don't see any emotion to him. Sale is the same as Porcello.... He is angry with himself and will do anything to turn this around.

[jung]

At least Porcello turned things around his last start. Actually his last 2 out of 3 starts have been good. He went 6 innings and gave up 3 runs against the Yankees and then went 6 innings and gave up 1 run against the Royals. You can tell Porcello is a work horse and frustrated with himself. He is working his ass off to try and turn this season around. Price doesn't seem to give a s***. Honestly, I just don't see any emotion to him. Sale is the same as Porcello.... He is angry with himself and will do anything to turn this around.

 

Rick had not as yet given up on his Four seam in the second to last start and paid for it early. Last start, just abandoned his four seam completely and did much better against what is albeit an anemic team.

 

Sale will be doing "all he can" when he finally admits what is happening to him. He has not done that yet evidenced by what he throws and how he throws it.

 

Price once again finds a way to make himself unlikeable while pitching like crap. When you consider that he could not even win with dignity at the WS and has now simply found a way to rot even that effort....I have little to no use for him. I could be easily convinced that Price is trying to talk and pitch his way outta' town.

[Kimmi]

What happened to our great pitching guru Brian Bannister???

 

Vazquez had an interesting and very blunt comment about why our pitchers are getting hit so hard. He said that the opposing hitters know what's coming. The Sox basically have not changed their game plan at all from 2018, mainly with how many high fast balls they throw. In 2018, they had great success with it. They stuck with the same plan this year, but the plan is not working at all because opposing team know what the Sox are doing.

 

Hello? Are they just now figuring this out? With the mounds of data available to all teams, adjustments to the game plan should have been made a long time ago.

 

Somebody, Bannister or not, has failed miserably at his/her job. Probably several somebodies.

[jung]

Vazquez had an interesting and very blunt comment about why our pitchers are getting hit so hard. He said that the opposing hitters know what's coming. The Sox basically have not changed their game plan at all from 2018, mainly with how many high fast balls they throw. In 2018, they had great success with it. They stuck with the same plan this year, but the plan is not working at all because opposing team know what the Sox are doing.

 

Hello? Are they just now figuring this out? With the mounds of data available to all teams, adjustments to the game plan should have been made a long time ago.

 

Somebody, Bannister or not, has failed miserably at his/her job. Probably several somebodies.

 

Vaz's comment does not take into account the 700+ more pitches our pitchers have thrown than any other staff in MLB. It also does not take into account that virtually every other staff is grouped in a pretty tight band in the 17,000 pitch range with us way up over 18,000 pitches sticking out like a sore thumb.

 

We don't throw strikes and we box ourselves into bad counts. You don't really have to know what is coming as a hitter. Far better for a hitter to have a sense for location than for pitch type. If it were not for the number of swing happy hitters in MLB swinging like the count is always 2-1, I have no idea how many more pitches we would be throwing than any other MLB staff,,,probably more like a 1,000+ more pitches.

[Kimmi]

Vaz's comment does not take into account the 700+ more pitches our pitchers have thrown than any other staff in MLB. It also does not take into account that virtually every other staff is grouped in a pretty tight band in the 17,000 pitch range with us way up over 18,000 pitches sticking out like a sore thumb.

 

We don't throw strikes and we box ourselves into bad counts. You don't really have to know what is coming as a hitter. Far better for a hitter to have a sense for location than for pitch type. If it were not for the number of swing happy hitters in MLB swinging like the count is always 2-1, I have no idea how many more pitches we would be throwing than any other MLB staff,,,probably more like a 1,000+ more pitches.

 

I wonder how many of those 700+ extra pitches are foul balls? I haven't looked, but I get the impression that our pitchers are getting fewer swings and misses this year. Even when the opposition doesn't make hard contact, they are able to foul off several pitches, driving the pitch count up.

[Bellhorn04]

Vazquez had an interesting and very blunt comment about why our pitchers are getting hit so hard. He said that the opposing hitters know what's coming. The Sox basically have not changed their game plan at all from 2018, mainly with how many high fast balls they throw. In 2018, they had great success with it. They stuck with the same plan this year, but the plan is not working at all because opposing team know what the Sox are doing.

 

Hello? Are they just now figuring this out? With the mounds of data available to all teams, adjustments to the game plan should have been made a long time ago.

 

Somebody, Bannister or not, has failed miserably at his/her job. Probably several somebodies.

 

This lines up with some comments Cora made after the series with the Dodgers, talking about what a good game plan the Dodgers offense had and suggesting that they were better prepared than the Red Sox were.

[Maxbialystock]

Vazquez had an interesting and very blunt comment about why our pitchers are getting hit so hard. He said that the opposing hitters know what's coming. The Sox basically have not changed their game plan at all from 2018, mainly with how many high fast balls they throw. In 2018, they had great success with it. They stuck with the same plan this year, but the plan is not working at all because opposing team know what the Sox are doing.

 

Hello? Are they just now figuring this out? With the mounds of data available to all teams, adjustments to the game plan should have been made a long time ago.

 

Somebody, Bannister or not, has failed miserably at his/her job. Probably several somebodies.

 

Ahem. Consider your source. The simple reality is that Sale, Price, ERod, Eovaldi, and even sometimes Porcello have thrown a lot of fastballs throughout their careers. I think that fixation on the fastball is exacerbated by the seams being smoother--which makes breaking balls less effective--and by the fact that three of them are lefties who apparently never mastered the curve ball which breaks toward righty batters. Also, there can be no question that Sale's fastball has lost something. I think he has a great slider, but it breaks in on righties.

 

I do agree the pitching staff has not adjusted to the semi-seamless baseball this year. Both the rotation and the bullpen.

[jung]

I wonder how many of those 700+ extra pitches are foul balls? I haven't looked, but I get the impression that our pitchers are getting fewer swings and misses this year. Even when the opposition doesn't make hard contact, they are able to foul off several pitches, driving the pitch count up.

 

But lots of foul balls are part of the same problem. This pitching staff challenges nobody. Its either nibble nibble nibble (ERod and Price) or get to chase (Sale and Cashewnuts). No telling what Porcello is trying to do at this point....survive would be my bet. Anyway, nibble and chase creates lots of foul balls and lots of just plain balls off the plate that don't even prompt a swing.

 

Manfred both in MLB promoting power pitching and in the Manfred Missile is totally responsible for this mess. Manfred has come at this from both directions and has simply exacerbated the worst aspects of MLB's game. The pitching now sucks with no end in immediate sight. Pitchers are breaking down constantly with teams forced to backfill with garbage. Hitters treat every count like its 2-1 regardless of the actual count and flail away. Nice job Rob...really well done. Lets see how many pink hats you can keep oblivious to your nonsense.

 

Nobody but the totally oblivious believes in these HR totals even now within the actual 2019 season....NOBODY!

[TylerD]

Rick had not as yet given up on his Four seam in the second to last start and paid for it early. Last start, just abandoned his four seam completely and did much better against what is albeit an anemic team.

 

Sale will be doing "all he can" when he finally admits what is happening to him. He has not done that yet evidenced by what he throws and how he throws it.

 

Price once again finds a way to make himself unlikeable while pitching like crap. When you consider that he could not even win with dignity at the WS and has now simply found a way to rot even that effort....I have little to no use for him. I could be easily convinced that Price is trying to talk and pitch his way outta' town.

 

Yup I agree Jung, I am over Price myself. He hasn't been anything great since coming to Boston (far from awful) and that isn't to say he is bad but for the money we have given him he really hasn't been what I thought he would be. I finally thought he would get it together after he performed so well in the playoffs last year but his season has gone from good to bad to ugly. I still trust Rick Porcello will get it together even if he abandons the 4 seam. Maybe he won't be shut down against the good teams but he can still be a solid number 3 for us in the rotation. He pitched a very good game a couple weeks back against the Yankees and then pitched another good game against the Royals. So he still has some good baseball in him. And as for Sale, I really just don't know what to say about him.... I keep hoping he can turn this season around and make it respectable and I thought he did after his good starts against the Jays and Tampa but then it got ugly again. Hopefully he has a good outing tonight.

[TylerD]

Also, I am kind of digging this font.... Just saying.

[Bellhorn04]

Also, I am kind of digging this font.... Just saying.

 

Yeah, it makes you look smarter or something.

[jad]

Also, I am kind of digging this font.... Just saying.

 

It's actually one of the worst fonts in typographical history. (Just sayin'!)

[TylerD]

Yeah, it makes you look smarter or something.

 

If you can't do it, fake it.... That's how I got my job lol.

[TylerD]

It's actually one of the worst fonts in typographical history. (Just sayin'!)

 

That makes me want to use it more, just saying

[oldtimer]

Others are still hoping that somehow the club will catch fire and go on a run big enough to get us into the WC discussion again. Those with a statisical background have to ignore our predicament and hope we do something we have been unable to do til now.

 

What I wonder is why don't we use some of our top pitching prospects scattered in to start games and take the heat off of starters. We have Byran Mata and DHern was some are calling him. I personally don't see a lot to lose by getting a look at these guys in a starting role.

 

While I'm at it, I would like to get a look at Chatham, Suran and Dalbec as well. Will we have to wait til sept for that to happen.

[jung]

Others are still hoping that somehow the club will catch fire and go on a run big enough to get us into the WC discussion again. Those with a statisical background have to ignore our predicament and hope we do something we have been unable to do til now.

 

What I wonder is why don't we use some of our top pitching prospects scattered in to start games and take the heat off of starters. We have Byran Mata and DHern was some are calling him. I personally don't see a lot to lose by getting a look at these guys in a starting role.

 

While I'm at it, I would like to get a look at Chatham, Suran and Dalbec as well. Will we have to wait til sept for that to happen.

 

That will only happen when the business side of the House gives up all hope of selling tickets and generating ratings off of the Sox "run to the WC". My God I am actually beginning to doubt the voracity of what has often been considered one of the top two marketing operations in MLB. Who do they think is watching this crap? They have a carnival down at Fenway. Tons and tons of those people are not their to actually watch baseball nor do they know what they are looking at and the demo numbers are in. Who is watching on NESN?....Old f***ers like me....THATS WHO!

[Maxbialystock]

That will only happen when the business side of the House gives up all hope of selling tickets and generating ratings off of the Sox "run to the WC". My God I am actually beginning to doubt the voracity of what has often been considered one of the top two marketing operations in MLB. Who do they think is watching this crap? They have a carnival down at Fenway. Tons and tons of those people are not their to actually watch baseball nor do they know what they are looking at and the demo numbers are in. Who is watching on NESN?....Old f***ers like me....THATS WHO!

 

Attendance this year is higher than last year. I don't know about NESN viewership of course.

[TylerD]

Attendance this year is higher than last year. I don't know about NESN viewership of course.

 

Something tells me that is about to change with how this season has gone lol.

[Sox75]

Others are still hoping that somehow the club will catch fire and go on a run big enough to get us into the WC discussion again. Those with a statisical background have to ignore our predicament and hope we do something we have been unable to do til now.

 

What I wonder is why don't we use some of our top pitching prospects scattered in to start games and take the heat off of starters. We have Byran Mata and DHern was some are calling him. I personally don't see a lot to lose by getting a look at these guys in a starting role.

 

While I'm at it, I would like to get a look at Chatham, Suran and Dalbec as well. Will we have to wait til sept for that to happen.

 

Does that not prematurely start the contractual timeclock & options issue with our young guns?

[jung]

Attendance this year is higher than last year. I don't know about NESN viewership of course.

 

NESN viewership is down. But most telling is the demo. The 55+ demo is 5:1 greater than the 25-54 demo.

 

I actually don't know how much being out of the WC if that what happens will effect attendance at the Fenway itself. It will effect it some...but much?...Doubt it....too deep into the year and these are nights on the town now. It's a junket to Fenway crowd. That is not the crowd I went to Fenway with as a season ticket holder in the 70's.

 

Do you see how many of those 5-12 year old kids at the park are decked out? That ain't no middle class crowd down there and its not a hard core baseball crowd either.

[Maxbialystock]

Something tells me that is about to change with how this season has gone lol.

 

Really? Last year started with a hot streak that barely let up--thus 108 wins. This year started with a terrible road trip, after which the Sox struggled to get above .500.

 

My guess, only that, is that fans are going to games this year partly because of the 108 and the WS last year. Plus the hitting is good. Plus some people like to watch train wrecks.

 

The Sox have now played 58 games at home with 23 to go, so there is still time for attendance to drop below last year's. However--

 

2012, losing season, attendance 37,567 per game

2013, WS win, attendance 34,979 per game.

2014, a losing season, it was 36,494.

2015, another losing season, 35,564.

2016, an ALDS season, 36,486.

2017, also ALDS, 36,020.

2018, greatest Sox season ever, 35,747

2019, disappointing season, so far 36,074.

[a700hitter]

Price DL'd with a wrist injury.

 

David Price placed on injured list

WWW.MLB.COM

---

BOSTON -- The Red Sox will make yet another adjustment to their pitching rotation after David Price was placed on the 10-day injured list on Thursday, retroactive to Monday, with a left wrist injury. The lefty had been experiencing tightness in his wrist and underwent an MRI to address the

[fxkatt]

It seems that with Price now down, it's exhibition season time. Sale can now develop new pitches. So can others. And bring up some promising pitchers... let's have a look. What else is there to play for?

[TylerD]

Really? Last year started with a hot streak that barely let up--thus 108 wins. This year started with a terrible road trip, after which the Sox struggled to get above .500.

 

My guess, only that, is that fans are going to games this year partly because of the 108 and the WS last year. Plus the hitting is good. Plus some people like to watch train wrecks.

 

The Sox have now played 58 games at home with 23 to go, so there is still time for attendance to drop below last year's. However--

 

2012, losing season, attendance 37,567 per game

2013, WS win, attendance 34,979 per game.

2014, a losing season, it was 36,494.

2015, another losing season, 35,564.

2016, an ALDS season, 36,486.

2017, also ALDS, 36,020.

2018, greatest Sox season ever, 35,747

2019, disappointing season, so far 36,074.

 

Fair point, however we have been in the race for the playoffs all year till pretty much now..... And aren't exactly showing signs of getting back into it with losing to Baltimore and not winning so far against Kansas City. Another series loss and people might stop caring about going to games. Not saying the attendance will be bad, but I can't see it being as strong as it has been. Granted by now I don't think it matters.... There isn't a ton of games left.

[moonslav59]

Price DL'd with a wrist injury.

 

David Price placed on injured list

WWW.MLB.COM

---

BOSTON -- The Red Sox will make yet another adjustment to their pitching rotation after David Price was placed on the 10-day injured list on Thursday, retroactive to Monday, with a left wrist injury. The lefty had been experiencing tightness in his wrist and underwent an MRI to address the

 

I suggested shutting him and Sale down two days ago.

[vegasbob]

A TFCC cyst in the wrist , what else could happen to the crew. TFCC?? Throw Fast, Curve, Change = K's

[illinoisredsox]

A TFCC cyst in the wrist , what else could happen to the crew. TFCC?? Throw Fast, Curve, Change = K's

 

‘Tis the Curse of the Eck:D