The Pen

[oldtimer]

Even taking away the weekend, here are some numbers from May 27th to June 27th:

 

15.19 Weber

15.00 Poyner

9.00 DHern

8.10 Lakins

5.73 J Smith

4.76 JTaylor

 

That's 37 IP from guys that should not ever be on the mound, unless it's a blow out.

 

These guys should be 6th and 7th inning guys not 8th inning guys:

7.43 Velazquez

5.68 Walden

 

These guys should be 7th and 8th inning guys not 9th inning guys:

7.43 Barnes

4.22 Brasier

 

These are the only 3 pen guys getting the job done recently:

0.00 Wright

0.66 Workman

2.25 Brewer

 

 

 

 

Last night the pen gave up 4 in 3 innings and that is an improvement. The problem is obvious.

[notin]

Last night the pen gave up 4 in 3 innings and that is an improvement. The problem is obvious.

 

 

Well, most of that damage came against one guy making his MLB debut. Trevor Kelley has not been part of the problems the Sox pen has had recently...

[Slasher9]

Well, most of that damage came against one guy making his MLB debut. Trevor Kelley has not been part of the problems the Sox pen has had recently...

 

But after last nights debut- can we add him to the list??.

[notin]

But after last nights debut- can we add him to the list??.

 

No, because he still has 0 blown saves.

 

He turned a 10-3 game into a 10-6 game. I’m not fretting his performance as a short term mop up guy. But Dombrowski better rise from his spring-summer hibernation and add an actual MLB arm someplace on this team to replace Kelley at some point...

[jung]

No, because he still has 0 blown saves.

 

He turned a 10-3 game into a 10-6 game. I’m not fretting his performance as a short term mop up guy. But Dombrowski better rise from his spring-summer hibernation and add an actual MLB arm someplace on this team to replace Kelley at some point...

 

Get a relief pitcher that has actually proven he can close, even an over the hill Closer. Cora will have to piece it together from the starter to that Closer just like everybody else does. Giving up runs late in games is one thing. Having your team claw back those runs and pull ahead only to have some s***-head blow it in the ninth is beyond debilitating for a team, the ENTIRE TEAM.

 

We should have enough offense to claw back against what is exceptionally s***** ML pitching across most of MLB baseball. But to be able to claw back and then blow it at the end after 3 hours of effort is criminal. Its unsustainable and NO I am not confident that the solution is bringing Nate back into the bullpen with the intention of eventually having him close.

[notin]

Get a relief pitcher that has actually proven he can close, even an over the hill Closer. Cora will have to piece it together from the starter to that Closer just like everybody else does. Giving up runs late in games is one thing. Having your team claw back those runs and pull ahead only to have some s***-head blow it in the ninth is beyond debilitating for a team, the ENTIRE TEAM.

 

We should have enough offense to claw back against what is exceptionally s***** ML pitching across most of MLB baseball. But to be able to claw back and then blow it at the end after 3 hours of effort is criminal. Its unsustainable and NO I am not confident that the solution is bringing Nate back into the bullpen with the intention of eventually having him close.

 

What I got out of that announcement for some reason was “Look, we can’t expect Eovaldi to handle a starter workload this season, so we’ll let him close since we need help there anyway.” If he can handle the reduced workload, I’m fine with that.

 

Getting an “over the hill” closer strikes me as a move for the sake of making a move. DD tried that before in Detroit with Joe Nathan, and learned that Nathan was over the hill to the point of no return. FWIW, DD has had an opportunity to make such a move already this year and passed on Fernando Rodney. Odd, because DD was the guy who made him a closer in the first place.

 

Closer or not, the Sox need a good reliever. Last year, even at the end of the season, Ryan Brasier was fourth man in the bullpen depth chart. This year, he was in the top two to start. The Sox need at least one more arm to mitigate the use of their lesser relievers and to prevent using Brasier and Josh Taylor in key situations. Like it or not, the closing situation can work itself out...

[Elktonnick]

Get a relief pitcher that has actually proven he can close, even an over the hill Closer. Cora will have to piece it together from the starter to that Closer just like everybody else does. Giving up runs late in games is one thing. Having your team claw back those runs and pull ahead only to have some s***-head blow it in the ninth is beyond debilitating for a team, the ENTIRE TEAM.

 

We should have enough offense to claw back against what is exceptionally s***** ML pitching across most of MLB baseball. But to be able to claw back and then blow it at the end after 3 hours of effort is criminal. Its unsustainable and NO I am not confident that the solution is bringing Nate back into the bullpen with the intention of eventually having him close.

 

Last night, I think Eck and O'Brien walked back the idea that Eovoldi would be used exclusively as a closer. From what they said Eovoldi would work out of the pen until he built up arm strength. The suggestion was that Eovoldi would have various roles depending on the situation. Judging from their comments it appears that management continues to resist the idea of set roles for their relief pitchers

[jung]

Last night, I think Eck and O'Brien walked back the idea that Eovoldi would be used exclusively as a closer. From what they said Eovoldi would work out of the pen until he built up arm strength. The suggestion was that Eovoldi would have various roles depending on the situation. Judging from their comments it appears that management continues to resist the idea of set roles for their relief pitchers

 

Which is a shame because Closing IS a specific role that not just anybody is capable of filling. I would get us somebody that that at the least the team would feel has a chance at closing out a game. What they have now is either entirely unproven over the course of the season or has not been tested at all in that role or has FAILED MISERABLY in that role.

[MADSTORK]

Cash strapped is a beautiful predicament to be in. Maybe Rusney can Close?

 

Thanks Ben

[SoxnCycles]

Cash strapped is a beautiful predicament to be in. Maybe Rusney can Close?

 

Thanks Ben

 

05-31-2018, 04:38 PM #39

MADSTORK

 

The great Porcello 7IP 7ER and we are supposed to think this Staff again in 2018 will win a ring? Dombrowski missed the boat on Verlander and Cole. Will he make the same mistake this deadline?

 

Make the call on Odorizzi Hamels (depending on vesting option?) Fullmer, Harvey, Wheeler, Ross and maybe the great Kershaw. Tax strapped is a beautiful thing ain't it my friends

[notin]

05-31-2018, 04:38 PM #39

MADSTORK

 

The great Porcello 7IP 7ER and we are supposed to think this Staff again in 2018 will win a ring? Dombrowski missed the boat on Verlander and Cole. Will he make the same mistake this deadline?

 

Make the call on Odorizzi Hamels (depending on vesting option?) Fullmer, Harvey, Wheeler, Ross and maybe the great Kershaw. Tax strapped is a beautiful thing ain't it miy friends

 

Yes, let’s get one of Odirizzi, Hamels, Ross or Fulmer, all of whom are injured right now...

[TylerD]

About the time your son turns 3, Tyler

 

Oh god...... That's forever

[illinoisredsox]

Yes, let’s get one of Odirizzi, Hamels, Ross or Fulmer, all of whom are injured right now...

 

SoxnCycles pulled up a post from Madstork from a year ago just to illustrate what an idiot the Stork is.

 

Actually, calling Mad an idiot is an insult to idiots.

[moonslav59]

Updated Starter vs Pen Numbers:

 

By Wins and Losses Responsibility Game by Game:

Starters 17-23 (-6)

Relievers 27-16 (+11)

 

Alternative Scoring System (+2, +1, 0, -1, -2 given for each game)

SP +22

RP +40

 

[Bellhorn04]

05-31-2018, 04:38 PM #39

MADSTORK

 

The great Porcello 7IP 7ER and we are supposed to think this Staff again in 2018 will win a ring? Dombrowski missed the boat on Verlander and Cole. Will he make the same mistake this deadline?

 

Make the call on Odorizzi Hamels (depending on vesting option?) Fullmer, Harvey, Wheeler, Ross and maybe the great Kershaw. Tax strapped is a beautiful thing ain't it my friends

 

Well done sir.

[notin]

SoxnCycles pulled up a post from Madstork from a year ago just to illustrate what an idiot the Stork is.

 

Actually, calling Mad an idiot is an insult to idiots.

 

I fell for that kind of thing again.

 

Where’s my dunce cap?

[Kimmi]

For the sweet love of f*** when is Eovaldi back!!!!

 

Word on the street is that he could return a few games after the All Star Break.

 

That could mean pretty much anything. LOL

[Kimmi]

05-31-2018, 04:38 PM #39

MADSTORK

 

The great Porcello 7IP 7ER and we are supposed to think this Staff again in 2018 will win a ring? Dombrowski missed the boat on Verlander and Cole. Will he make the same mistake this deadline?

 

Make the call on Odorizzi Hamels (depending on vesting option?) Fullmer, Harvey, Wheeler, Ross and maybe the great Kershaw. Tax strapped is a beautiful thing ain't it my friends

 

Nice find!

[moonslav59]

Word on the street is that he could return a few games after the All Star Break.

 

That could mean pretty much anything. LOL

 

He just threw Monday. I think it will be weeks after the ASB... maybe after July 24th.

[Kimmi]

He just threw Monday. I think it will be weeks after the ASB... maybe after July 24th.

 

That could be.

 

I hope the Sox don't rush him back out of desperation.

[Kimmi]

Darwinzon Hernandez has been moved to the pen in AAA in hopes that he will be able to help the pen out later in the year.

[southpaw777]

Unfortunately that kid hasn't been able to find the plate this year. Ridiculous amount of free passes. NOT the kind of thing you want to see. Maybe as a “let it fly” for an inning bullpen arm he may do better. Im not holding my breath though. They need a legit guy who can miss bats. Im not sold on NE yet, but With him already throwing and not being stretched out to start, he could be back sooner than we think. Im with you though. I hope they don't rush him.

Even with Eovaldi returning at some point, IMO They still need another arm that has had better success down there. Internal or outside the organization. Not sure we have it internally.

[moonslav59]

We can look back and wish we signed Ottavino or Britton instead of Eovaldi. Maybe we could have afforded a cheaper RP'er had we not signed Pearce.

 

There were a lot of names discussed on this thread. I was very high on Ottavino as one of the cheaper top tier options, but I was also high on Cody Allen as a low cost option.

 

We could have signed several RP'ers that have turned out to be complete busts or have been on the IL. Here's a look at the RP'ers who signed for the most money last winter:

Contract Pitcher ERA/ IP/WHIP

$13M x 3 Britton 2.50/ 36/ 1.28

$10M x 3 Familia 7.53/29/ 1.78

$9M x 3 Ottavino 1.91/38/ 1.33

$8.3 x 3 Joe Kelly 5.76/30/ 1.65

$12.5 x 2 A Miller 3.95/27/ 1.28

$11.5 x 2 Robertson (IL) 5.40/7/ 2.10

$9M x 2 Herrera 7.89/29/ 1.75

$7.5 x 2 J Soria 4.76/40/ 1.08 (the only decent WHIP)

$5M x 2 J Wilson 4.50/10/ 1.30

$8.5M x 1 Cody Allen 6.25/23/ 1.91

 

There's only 2 good choices on this list, in hindsight.

 

Had we not signed Pearce ($6.25M) we'd have had just enough budget space for about $9-10M, so we could have signed Eovaldi + anyone, except Britton. Some would have left us with nothing left for summer acquisitions that added salary.

 

 

 

[Jasonbay44]

Another blown save

[oldtimer]

Another blown save

 

We got a win, but my heart was in my mouth watching Workman go about it.

[TylerD]

Agreed. That was scary

[notin]

Another blown save

 

But a win, at least...

[moonslav59]

It's a blown save, yes, but let's not forget that our starter went 2.1 IP allowing 3 ERs, and our pen went 7.2 IP allowing 4 runs.

 

We had to go to Brewer in the 3rd inning. After Brewer, our RP'ers went 5 IP allowing 1 run, but that one run was the blown save. I just don't see that as the focal point of the game, but it always seems to feel like it, right?

[jung]

I actually do not know who they should get because in truth none of this trash masquerading as MLB pitchers can throw other than a very select few.

 

I actually don't know where this game is going. ALL PITCHING SUCKS in MLB at present. Starting pitching, relief pitching ANY PITCHING. There is virtually nothing more than a handful of pitchers in MLB left that can actually throw in or near the strike zone without seeing any ole' flick of a bat send a pitch over the fence. The combination of bad pitching and the rocket ship baseball is turning this game into a farce.

 

And that handful of pitchers if they happen to be relief pitchers are being worn threadbare. See Giles last night forced to three straight stints in a row, failing last night to keep Marco from doinking a rocket ship aided, HR over the fence for the win.

 

- FB's now generally thrown up and out of the zone enticing hitters to chase.

- Curves thrown to finish off the plate down and out of the zone, enticing hitters to chase.

- Cutters thrown to just barely leak off or leak onto the plate based on the handedness of the pitcher and the hitter

- Changes thrown just off the plate hoping to entice the hitter to think it is something off speed and breaking that will leak back to the plate

- Sliders getting crushed because the pitch does not feature enough break, rolling up to the plate, pitchers throwing the pitch wild in the strike zone where it is sent into orbit (see rocket ship baseball) OR nowhere near the plate for a ball

 

The only pitch this crappy generation of MLB pitchers (virtually any MLB team now has a bunch of these so called ML pitchers) will throw over the plate is a get me over FB thrown at 0-0 in an effort to get ahead in the count.

 

Virtually everything else this generation of pitchers is throwing is designed to finish off the plate because they are simply not good enough to throw swing and miss pitches that are actually in the strike zone....none of them, virtually none of them. They can't do it for 1 inning or 5 or 6 and certainly not a complete game now more rare than hen's teeth. They generally feature weak cheese that just gets crushed (see most of the pitches JD hits) or flat, rolling sliders that finish right over the heart (see virtually everything Chavis actually hits). The few pitchers in MLB that can throw at all are just being worn through by excess work BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE CAN THROW!

 

Probably the next pitch to come on line in a big way if they can throw it will be the split finger with the Slider going the way of the dinosaurs at least for some period of time.

 

I actually wonder if pitchers can even grip the rocket ship baseball any longer as i have never seen so many flat, doing nothing, going nowhere, weak cheese FB's in my life.

 

I would give up 10 guys including anybody that can walk and certainly beni to get Giles here. Though there are so few guys in MLB that can actually throw, made more apparent as we are now in summer hitting season. We likely simply don't have the farm and even MLB material to get anybody really worth a damn once the auction bidding starts.

Edited July 5, 2019 by jung

[S5Dewey]

 

I actually wonder if pitchers can even grip the rocket ship baseball any longer as i have never seen so many flat, doing nothing, going nowhere, weak cheese FB's in my life.

 

That may be an excellent point, one I hadn't thought of. A few days ago I speculated that MLB may have gone to the NCAA ball with "tighter" (read: flatter) threads and within a day or so Manfred confirmed that the 2019 baseball has the same characteristics as the NCAA ball.

I say I hadn't thought of it because my post said that the flatter seams would reduce wind resistance making the ball go farther but another thing it does it making it harder for the pitcher to grip.

 

I'd like to hear what pitchers have to say about this.