The Pen

[notin]

Being better than Johnson isn't saying much. Its like being better than Josh Smith

 

 

It should be enough to get him some spot start work in the rotation, which is all I’m asking for...

[Maxbialystock]

It should be enough to get him some spot start work in the rotation, which is all I’m asking for...

 

Somehow this wasn't as big a problem last year even though we basically had four starters plus Johnson and Velazquez--and later Eovaldi. This year we were supposed to begin with 5 starters--Sale, Price, ERod, Porcello, and Eovaldi but never came close to that.

 

Now it's a pretty steady 4--all but Eovaldi--except when Price or someone gets shelled early. But the subs like Johnson and others have rarely gone 5 innings.

[Bellhorn04]

Somehow this wasn't as big a problem last year even though we basically had four starters plus Johnson and Velazquez--and later Eovaldi. This year we were supposed to begin with 5 starters--Sale, Price, ERod, Porcello, and Eovaldi but never came close to that.

 

Now it's a pretty steady 4--all but Eovaldi--except when Price or someone gets shelled early. But the subs like Johnson and others have rarely gone 5 innings.

 

Johnson and Velazquez did well in their starts last year. All part of the magic I guess.

[oldtimer]

The pen had a lot of work in the last few days and goes into the Twins series after being taxed. I hope our starters can go 6 or more in the next 3 games.

[moonslav59]

The pen had a lot of work in the last few days and goes into the Twins series after being taxed. I hope our starters can go 6 or more in the next 3 games.

 

We have Porcello, Price and then ERod for the next 3 games.

 

IP per start

6.0 Sale

5.8 Porcello

5.6 ERod

5.1 Price (was pulled very early in two games and is 5.9 in his other 10 starts)

 

 

[a700hitter]

Is Cody Allen worth a look?

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/06/angels-release-cody-allen.html

[Slasher9]

Is Cody Allen worth a look?

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/06/angels-release-cody-allen.html

 

why not? i'm assuming we would not have to pickup up the salary since he was released and it would just cost us league minimum?

[moonslav59]

I screwed up somewhere in my game by game summary and have us at 30-29 not 29-29, but the net totals are as such:

 

29 Losses:

18.5 are more the starter's fault

10.5 are more the reliever's fault

 

30 Wins:

11.5 are more due to the starter

18.5 are more due to the reliever

 

Net:

SP: -7.0

RP: +8.0

 

Can we stop blaming the pen?

 

 

 

Here was the summary of our first 59 games based on who was more to blame or more to praise for our wins and losses- the pen or the rotation.

 

Our pen has blown some games since then, but not enough to make it an overall negative on the season.

[SCM33]

Is Cody Allen worth a look?

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/06/angels-release-cody-allen.html

 

I thought about this when he was released. Cant be any worse than a couple of the options we have right now.

[SCM33]

Here was the summary of our first 59 games based on who was more to blame or more to praise for our wins and losses- the pen or the rotation.

 

Our pen has blown some games since then, but not enough to make it an overall negative on the season.

 

Moonslav, there is no way to sugar coat it. The pen sucks. This is a case where the numbers are misleading. Other than Barnes (yes, I said it!) do you really trust anyone else? Barnes is starting to look overworked due to the lack of a 5th starter. 1 run lead, going in to the 9th.....you really feel comfortable? I think youre lying to yourself if you answer yes.

[moonslav59]

Moonslav, there is no way to sugar coat it. The pen sucks. This is a case where the numbers are misleading. Other than Barnes (yes, I said it!) do you really trust anyone else? Barnes is starting to look overworked due to the lack of a 5th starter. 1 run lead, going in to the 9th.....you really feel comfortable? I think youre lying to yourself if you answer yes.

 

I've been calling for a trade for a solid pen arm or two all year and all last winter.

 

I don't have faith in our pen. I like Barnes a lot... as a set-up man. Hembree, Workman and maybe Walden are okay as 6th & 7th inning guys. Brasier is a tough call.

 

My point was about what what our pen has done to date. Like em or not, on the edge of your seat or not, our pen has won more games for us thatn our SP'ers and they have lost less games than our SP'ers, too.

 

It's not about the numbers. I went back and looked at every win and loss our team had over the first 59 games, and it was crystal clear our pen was way better than our rotation.

 

They have slipped since then, and our starters have improved, but not by enough to swing the pen into negative territory.

 

You can argue they did it with magic, with luck, with both, and I'd be fine with that, but they have- some how- some way- gotten the job done more than our starters have.

 

Going forward is another thing. I'm not willing to bet this continues. I still want a solid trade or two, and the sooner the better.

 

Those are two separate issues.

[SCM33]

I've been calling for a trade for a solid pen arm or two all year and all last winter.

 

I don't have faith in our pen. I like Barnes a lot... as a set-up man. Hembree, Workman and maybe Walden are okay as 6th & 7th inning guys. Brasier is a tough call.

 

My point was about what what our pen has done to date. Like em or not, on the edge of your seat or not, our pen has won more games for us thatn our SP'ers and they have lost less games than our SP'ers, too.

 

It's not about the numbers. I went back and looked at every win and loss our team had over the first 59 games, and it was crystal clear our pen was way better than our rotation.

 

They have slipped since then, and our starters have improved, but not by enough to swing the pen into negative territory.

 

You can argue they did it with magic, with luck, with both, and I'd be fine with that, but they have- some how- some way- gotten the job done more than our starters have.

 

Going forward is another thing. I'm not willing to bet this continues. I still want a solid trade or two, and the sooner the better.

 

Those are two separate issues.

 

You need to factor in that we really haven't had a real #5 SP all year, so that really effects those numbers. Velasquez, Weber, Johnson and Smith have all been brutally terrible filling in.

 

I thought you had me on ignore!!!

[moonslav59]

You need to factor in that we really haven't had a real #5 SP all year, so that really effects those numbers. Velasquez, Weber, Johnson and Smith have all been brutally terrible filling in.

 

I thought you had me on ignore!!!

 

I did.

 

I got bored.

 

I was glad to see a post that did not really misrepresent my position.

 

On your point about our crappy 5th starter, one could argue having to fill in for Eovaldi not only took a long relief pitcher from our pen, but it also taxed the pen by forcing "pen games" way too often.

 

My position remains unchanged. We need pen help for the rest of the season... like yesterday, but our pen has been a plus, so far this year. To me, it's beyond debate. They have added wins and lessened losses when compared to our rotation up to now.

[oldtimer]

I did.

 

I got bored.

 

I was glad to see a post that did not really misrepresent my position.

 

On your point about our crappy 5th starter, one could argue having to fill in for Eovaldi not only took a long relief pitcher from our pen, but it also taxed the pen by forcing "pen games" way too often.

 

My position remains unchanged. We need pen help for the rest of the season... like yesterday, but our pen has been a plus, so far this year. To me, it's beyond debate. They have added wins and lessened losses when compared to our rotation up to now.

 

We just had to go way deep into the pen last night. We jst needed more hitting with RISP. JDM went 0 for 8 as an example. Does anyone know why Price was taken out after 5?

[OH FOY]

Funny thing after this winning streak, we only gained 1 game in the loss column to the Yanks. Went from 9 to 8.

[notin]

I did.

 

I got bored.

 

I was glad to see a post that did not really misrepresent my position.

 

On your point about our crappy 5th starter, one could argue having to fill in for Eovaldi not only took a long relief pitcher from our pen, but it also taxed the pen by forcing "pen games" way too often.

 

My position remains unchanged. We need pen help for the rest of the season... like yesterday, but our pen has been a plus, so far this year. To me, it's beyond debate. They have added wins and lessened losses when compared to our rotation up to now.

 

As much as I’ve been calling for another bullpen arm, the Sox bullpen went 11 innings last night and only gave up 2 runs against a very good team. It was an impressive game for a lot of them.

 

Yes they had 2 blown saves. But it never should have come to that. The Sox hitting was completely absent. No bullpen should be required to do what the Sox pen did last night...

[OH FOY]

What you cant do is give the tying HR up to the 1st Batter, in the 13th, to tie the game. 1st batter. After you get the lead. That hurt. Sometimes, have to give the other Pitchers credit too. Hard to do, but it happens.

I said in game thread ticking time bomb, with this BP against a Home Run hitting team.

Walks and HR's kill Relievers, games are usually close anyway when they come in. Usually that 1 hit, is the difference.

Edited June 19, 2019 by OH FOY!

[devildavid]

As much as I’ve been calling for another bullpen arm, the Sox bullpen went 11 innings last night and only gave up 2 runs against a very good team. It was an impressive game for a lot of them.

 

Yes they had 2 blown saves. But it never should have come to that. The Sox hitting was completely absent. No bullpen should be required to do what the Sox pen did last night...

 

Team was 1-13 with RISP for the game.

[Bellhorn04]

As much as I’ve been calling for another bullpen arm, the Sox bullpen went 11 innings last night and only gave up 2 runs against a very good team. It was an impressive game for a lot of them.

 

Yes they had 2 blown saves. But it never should have come to that. The Sox hitting was completely absent. No bullpen should be required to do what the Sox pen did last night...

 

3 runs to be exact, but your point stands.

[OH FOY]

Sox are facing a good Pitcher today, especially at home, they needed last nights game. Huge win today if they can forget and move on quickly. Got to take 2 out of three in Minny.

[OH FOY]

Team was 1-13 with RISP for the game.

 

Most important game stat, that and 2 out with RISP. But the Sox had the lead...Twice, after Price was gone.

Edited June 19, 2019 by OH FOY!

[notin]

3 runs to be exact, but your point stands.

 

 

I also doubt Dombrowski adds anything to this bullpen, at least not directly.

 

More likely he adds a swingman type who can pitch while a starter is out but can go to the bullpen on the rare occasion our starting 5 is healthy.

 

If he wants to replace Porcello for next year with this trade, it gets difficult to figure out who his target is. Maybe Anthony Desclafini? Brad Keller? Mike Minor? (Because the Sox need another lefty.)

 

If he is ok with a rental who isn’t going to dent the burgeoning supply of elite prospects, the target might be someone like Andrew Cashner. (Brian Johnson for Cashner and cash? I’m ok with that.)

[OH FOY]

Cant Trade Porcello until you see how Eovaldi's arm is holding out. Might not make it through his 1st start.

[notin]

Cant Trade Porcello until you see how Eovaldi's arm is holding out. Might not make it through his 1st start.

 

The Sox aren’t trading Porcello. But they might acquire a pitcher controllable through next season and then not re-sign Porcello.

 

I think that’s unlikely, as they really don’t have the chips for a worthwhile pitcher with that much control.

 

I think they’ll move on a cheaper pitcher like Cashner and he’ll replace Eovaldi in the rotation for as long as required in 2019. And move to the bullpen if/when Nathan rejoins the rotation (assuming no one else is hurt)...

Edited June 19, 2019 by notin

[Slasher9]

. Does anyone know why Price was taken out after 5?

 

i believe WTF Cora declared "we have to protect him". whatever that means....

[notin]

i believe WTF Cora declared "we have to protect him". whatever that means....

 

It might means he’s still not 100%.

 

Getting more IP out of Price might have worked out better, but are you really arguing that the performance of the bullpen was the problem last night/this morning?

[illinoisredsox]

I imagine that the Pawtucket-Boston shuttle will be active today.

[kenmeister]

Last night's game killed my enthusiasm. Normally I consider baseball a team game, and wins or losses are distributed amongst the players who contributed. But last night's loss I'm pinning squarely on JD Martinez. 0 for 8 with 5 strikeouts and 4 men left on base may be the worse game I've ever seen anyone have, and his only job was to hit.

[Maxbialystock]

i believe WTF Cora declared "we have to protect him". whatever that means....

 

The fact is you have no idea why he took him out, nor do I. But I am more than willing to trust his judgment because he has a whole lot more information than I--or you. I also think Price was lucky as heck to get thru 5 while giving up just 1 run because his changeup was getting hammered and his slider was rarely used.

 

The night before Cora had no hesitation letting Porcello go 7 innings and 94 pitches and then bringing in Brewer and Brasier to finish a 2-0 win. The game before that he took starter Johnson out after 3 and only brought in Smith to pitch the 9th because the Sox were leading 8-3, which became 8-6 before he got the final out. the game before that Sale went 6 and 103 pitches giving up 2 runs. And so on.

 

Last night was the 15th game in 14 days, which has taxed the bullpen, especially when Price went 1.1 innings in 1 start and Johnson 3 in another. So my thinking is that Cora had tons of reasons to leave Price in last night, but didn't for what can only be good reasons.

[TylerD]

Last night's game killed my enthusiasm. Normally I consider baseball a team game, and wins or losses are distributed amongst the players who contributed. But last night's loss I'm pinning squarely on JD Martinez. 0 for 8 with 5 strikeouts and 4 men left on base may be the worse game I've ever seen anyone have, and his only job was to hit.

 

I can get behind that. It was a pathetic showing for Martinez. Cora was actually brilliant last night.... Price might have been a bit sore so he went to the red hot bullpen and they performed nothing short of fantastic. 12 innings giving up 3 runs is brilliant for any bullpen and especially against an offense like Minnesota. Too bad we just couldn't get one more damn run.